keith
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- Aug 25, 2007
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- Caravaning since 1974 - Motorhoming since 2003
Something that crops up from time to time, as it did in a recent thread, so make your own mind up from this.
Does petrol go off over time?
All sorts of problems are blamed on petrol that's "gone off" either in a bike's tank or in a separate petrol can. Is this really a problem, and, if so, how should you combat it? We've heard the same about brake fluid, so is that the case too?
Once again, it's over to the cleverest bloke we know, John Rowland, Fuchs Silkolene's top automotive research chemist to cut through the internet hype and give us the facts.
"Petrol in a sealed metal can does not go off, provided it is purchased in the UK or any other more or less civilised place. It will be OK for years. About the only additive in fuel is the detergent which doesn't evaporate. In these lead-free days, octane number depends on the molecular make-up of the fuel, and all you need to do is stop evaporation. Even the smallest molecules in there (such as hexane) can't get through metal. Plastic, as used for fuel containers, is itself made up of long-chain hydrocarbons (usually high-density polyethylene) which have similarities with the short-chain petrol hydrocarbons, so small petrol molecules worm their way into the relatively large spaces between the plastic molecules and get out the other side. Losses can be several percent over long periods (months) but thick plastic helps reduce this. You can't beat metal with its compact atomic structure for storing petrol."
"Petrol is OK in a can with an airspace; a tiny amount of the more volatile fractions of the fuel will evaporate to fill the airspace, and that's the end of it. It becomes a 'closed system in equilibrium'. Molecules go back into the liquid phase at the same rate as they leave it and enter the gaseous phase. Even a three-litre airspace in a five-litre can will only contain a very small amount of fuel vapour, equivalent to one or two CCs of fuel depending on the temperature."
"As for a vented fuel tank like most bikes have fitted, there will be some minor vapour loss of the more volatile fractions, such as hexane, but nowhere near as bad as losses from a container exposing a large sufface area of fuel to the air - such as a frying pan."
"Volume changes in the tank airspace due to daily temperature changes cause the tank to 'breathe', but one breath every 24 hours isn't so bad. Even a few months of this with a half full tank isn't a big deal. I get the impression from some bike owners that they think the fuel tank gasps away like an elephant running a marathon. In reality, it's more like a hibernating dormouse. Imagine a 16-litre tank with an eight-litre airspace, starting at 10C it cools to 0C. Using Charles' law, we can calculate the tank would draw in 300cc of air, and blows it out again when it warms up to 10C. But, petrol vapour is heavy, and the air drawn in will tend to sit on top of it, so, when air is lost when the tank warms up, it will be mainly the top layer with only a small amount of fuel in it."
"As for petrol evaporating from the carbs, some fuel, particularly from non-mainstream suppliers, can leave a tacky deposit when it dries out, but this was more of a 1990s problem. You don't hear of it happening today where civilisation (as we know it) exists. Even so, it's a good idea when putting a bike in storage to add a drop (5cc/litre) of good two-stroke oil to the fuel, run the engine until it's good and hot, shut down and cover with a thick blanket (cuts temperature fluctuation). Then, if the fuel dries out, a protective oily film will be there which is easily washed off when the bike is run again."
"Brake fluid (avoid the cheap stuff) will keep for years in a sealed, full, plastic bottle. Even a part-empty bottle is OK if the top is on tight. People worry too much about this water-absorption business. OK, it happens, but it's a slow process. Anyway, the boiling point of damp brake fluid is around 190C, so, unless you're out to bust the lap record at the IoM, it's not going to let you down."
In summary, fuel and brake fluid are unlikely to go 'off' unless stored incorrectly for years rather than months.
So there you go. If anyone has any old petrol that they think is useless - give it to me please Broken Link Removed
Does petrol go off over time?
All sorts of problems are blamed on petrol that's "gone off" either in a bike's tank or in a separate petrol can. Is this really a problem, and, if so, how should you combat it? We've heard the same about brake fluid, so is that the case too?
Once again, it's over to the cleverest bloke we know, John Rowland, Fuchs Silkolene's top automotive research chemist to cut through the internet hype and give us the facts.
"Petrol in a sealed metal can does not go off, provided it is purchased in the UK or any other more or less civilised place. It will be OK for years. About the only additive in fuel is the detergent which doesn't evaporate. In these lead-free days, octane number depends on the molecular make-up of the fuel, and all you need to do is stop evaporation. Even the smallest molecules in there (such as hexane) can't get through metal. Plastic, as used for fuel containers, is itself made up of long-chain hydrocarbons (usually high-density polyethylene) which have similarities with the short-chain petrol hydrocarbons, so small petrol molecules worm their way into the relatively large spaces between the plastic molecules and get out the other side. Losses can be several percent over long periods (months) but thick plastic helps reduce this. You can't beat metal with its compact atomic structure for storing petrol."
"Petrol is OK in a can with an airspace; a tiny amount of the more volatile fractions of the fuel will evaporate to fill the airspace, and that's the end of it. It becomes a 'closed system in equilibrium'. Molecules go back into the liquid phase at the same rate as they leave it and enter the gaseous phase. Even a three-litre airspace in a five-litre can will only contain a very small amount of fuel vapour, equivalent to one or two CCs of fuel depending on the temperature."
"As for a vented fuel tank like most bikes have fitted, there will be some minor vapour loss of the more volatile fractions, such as hexane, but nowhere near as bad as losses from a container exposing a large sufface area of fuel to the air - such as a frying pan."
"Volume changes in the tank airspace due to daily temperature changes cause the tank to 'breathe', but one breath every 24 hours isn't so bad. Even a few months of this with a half full tank isn't a big deal. I get the impression from some bike owners that they think the fuel tank gasps away like an elephant running a marathon. In reality, it's more like a hibernating dormouse. Imagine a 16-litre tank with an eight-litre airspace, starting at 10C it cools to 0C. Using Charles' law, we can calculate the tank would draw in 300cc of air, and blows it out again when it warms up to 10C. But, petrol vapour is heavy, and the air drawn in will tend to sit on top of it, so, when air is lost when the tank warms up, it will be mainly the top layer with only a small amount of fuel in it."
"As for petrol evaporating from the carbs, some fuel, particularly from non-mainstream suppliers, can leave a tacky deposit when it dries out, but this was more of a 1990s problem. You don't hear of it happening today where civilisation (as we know it) exists. Even so, it's a good idea when putting a bike in storage to add a drop (5cc/litre) of good two-stroke oil to the fuel, run the engine until it's good and hot, shut down and cover with a thick blanket (cuts temperature fluctuation). Then, if the fuel dries out, a protective oily film will be there which is easily washed off when the bike is run again."
"Brake fluid (avoid the cheap stuff) will keep for years in a sealed, full, plastic bottle. Even a part-empty bottle is OK if the top is on tight. People worry too much about this water-absorption business. OK, it happens, but it's a slow process. Anyway, the boiling point of damp brake fluid is around 190C, so, unless you're out to bust the lap record at the IoM, it's not going to let you down."
In summary, fuel and brake fluid are unlikely to go 'off' unless stored incorrectly for years rather than months.
So there you go. If anyone has any old petrol that they think is useless - give it to me please Broken Link Removed