B+E vs C1+E towing entitlements

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by camcondor, Oct 21, 2008.

  1. camcondor

    camcondor Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,044
    Likes Received:
    477
    Location:
    East Midlands
    At the risk of sparking up a flame war :Smile:I just want to clarify the towing entitlements for these driving licence categories.......

    As I understand it, B+E entitles the holder to drive a motor vehicle up to 3500kg and tow ANY TRAILER - the exact weight of the trailer not being defined in the regulations, but obviously for safety purposes the trailer would not exceed the GVM of the towing vehicle.

    Now C1+E allows the "grandfather right" to drive a vehicle up to 7500kg BUT the trailer may not exceed 750kg unless the holder passes a further test for a full C+E licence?? So theoretically then, people using their C1+E licence to drive, say an RV of 7500kg, would be limited to a toad under 750kg meaning that many are driving/ towing outside of the permitted entitlements??

    I don't want to get involved in the old arguments that RV drivers apparently do not legally need a C1 or C licence and can drive them on a B.....JUST THE TOWING ENTITLEMENTS.

    :Eeek:
     
  2. olley

    olley Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,713
    Likes Received:
    2,108
    Location:
    Ipswich
    Hi Laurie a C1 allows you to drive an HGV up to 7.5tons and pull a trailer with a MAM (Maximum Allowed Mass) of 750kg

    A C1+E allows the weight of the trailer to increase to a MAM of 4.5tons providing it doesn't weigh more than the towing vehicle.

    See here: Towing trailers with medium sized vehicles between 3.5 and 7.5 tonnes : Directgov - Motoring

    A basic cat. B licence allows you to drive a vehicle with a MAM of 3.5tons and tow a trailer with a MAM of 750kg, or greater as long as the combination doesn't exceed 4.25tons and the trailer doesn't exceed the unladend weight of the vehicle.

    See here: Towing trailers or caravans with vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes : Directgov - Motoring

    Olley
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2008
  3. camcondor

    camcondor Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,044
    Likes Received:
    477
    Location:
    East Midlands
    Thanks Olley, but what's your take on a B+E rather than just the basic B?
     
  4. moandick

    moandick Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    Landrake, Cornwall
    Hi Laurie

    see the official regulations: <here>

    Motor vehicles with a MAM not exceeding 3500kg having not more than eight passenger seats with a trailer up to 750kg.
    Combinations of towing vehicles in category B and a trailer, where the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle


    More official regulations <here>

    I take that to read that a B licence can tow a ¾ ton trailer behind his car - or a B licence can tow any trailer behind his car if the car weighs lighter than 3½ ton PROVIDING that the trailer does not weigh heavier than the tow car - and providing that the combined weight does not exceed 3½ tons.

    More official regulations <here>

    Combinations of vehicles consisting of a vehicle in category B and a trailer, where the combination does not come within category B

    I take that to read that a B licence needs the E licence to tow a heavier caravan behind his car - providing the caravan does not exceeed 85% of the car laden weight.

    That is how a 'Range Rover' at 3 tons or so, can tow a big heavy twin axle caravan or horse box on a car licence - a B+E licence rather than a C1+E which is where the tow car weighs more than 3½ ton by itself.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2008
  5. moandick

    moandick Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    Landrake, Cornwall
    Hi Laurie

    Just one more little bit of clarification:

    If you have a B licence:

    you can drive a car and trailer combination (where the trailer weighs less than ¾ ton) up to a total weight of 4½ tons.

    you can drive a car and trailer combination (where the trailer weighs over ¾ ton) up to a total weight of 3½ tons.

    Grandfathers rights Licence:

    All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires. This means they are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM. They also have entitlement to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kgs MAM.

    Younger drivers:

    Car driving licence first obtained since 1 January 1997:

    Drivers who passed a car test on or after 1 January 1997 are required to pass an additional driving test in order to gain entitlement to category B+E and all larger vehicles.

    If you have a B+E Licence:

    You can drive a car weighing up to 3½ tons plus a trailer that weighs up to 85% of the car weight.

    See, no arguments - it's really simple innit? Oh yea :Eeek::Eeek::Eek!:
     
  6. slickmouse

    slickmouse Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Planet Mars next 2 Uranus
    GRANDFATHER ??????

    Bloody hell thats a bit strong! I would have thought more

    "Man who knows his way around a woman and can do things only a 20 year old can dream about"

    Would have been a better way to put it :Eeek:
     
  7. moandick

    moandick Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    Landrake, Cornwall
    Er, ummmm, aaagh - "dream on, baby" is all I can think of, at the moment :Eeek::Eeek:
     
  8. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,475
    Likes Received:
    16,955
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    all this 85% of towcar weight malarky is only a caravan club recommendation and is not law.

    a trailer, no matter what's towing it, must never weigh more than the towcar itself. :thumb:
     
  9. moandick

    moandick Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    Landrake, Cornwall
    Sorry Pappajohn but the 85% rule is not just the Caravan Club, see here:


    Towing trailers or caravans with vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes : Directgov - Motoring

    Where it specifically states:

    As for towing caravans, existing general guidance recommends that the laden weight of the caravan does not exceed 85% of the unladen weight of the car. In the majority of cases, caravans and small trailers towed by cars should be within the new category B threshold.

    And I have no argument against your idea that the trailer should never exceed the tow car weight - BUT - that doesn't cover 5th wheels and tow cars does it - nor does it hold water where an Articulated lorry is concerned.
     
  10. PeteH

    PeteH Funster

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,778
    Likes Received:
    2,193
    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    Lighting the fire!!

    Hi

    A quick check of (the back of) your licence will show several "codes" in the right column.

    I f you passed your test BEFORE the cut off date. it should show C1E with a code 107 which on the DVLA website this code indicates "not more than 8250kg" this is the GROSS train mass of the combination, (provided that the trailer never weighs more than the towing vehicle).

    NOW FOR THE "DAFT" BIT:- Go to D1E (Minibus`) This has a code 101 (not for hire or reward) and the code 107 (WEIGHT LIMIT DOES NOT APPLY)

    What this means in effect is that You cannot drive (say) and R-V plus a trailer (toad) IF the combination is over 8250KG. BUT you can fill a Large minibus with kids tow umpteen TONS of camping kit, canoes etc and NO weight limit is regarded!!! the only limiation is the trailer must not weigh more than the Tug!! (so long as its "not for hire or reward") :cry:

    NOW. My r-v has Passenger seating for about 10 (no seat belts, Not reguired it`s too old). it also has "toilet" facilities (a-la modern coaches) which to my mind makes it a "bus" NOT an HGV, therefore I SHOULD be able to invoke the Minibus criteria and tow up to 6.5tonne (the weight of the R-V)? :thumb:

    Guess what, I wrote to DVLA and suggested it, They did`nt like it, and just refered to the fact that a"motorhome" is classed "Private Goods" (Tax Disk) So get ready to duck when you tell "her indoors" that she and the Kids are "goods in transit"!!!!!.

    Ho-Hummmmm! :Doh:

    Pete
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2008
  11. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,475
    Likes Received:
    16,955
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    OK dick.....i stand corrected.:Blush:

    for years i wondered if i was a mushroom and this confirms it.......kept in the dark and fed on bullsh/t.:Rofl1::Rofl1:

    still wouldnt want to tow over the cars weight though. :thumb:
     
  12. moandick

    moandick Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    Landrake, Cornwall
    I actually nearly got caught out with that situation just a few months ago.

    We had an RV here where the owner wanted to move on but had a car and no means of driving both the RV and the Car at the same time.

    So I said 'no Problems' - as one does - "put it on my trailer and I will come down to collect the trailer later" - well somehow that got translated into me towing the trailer loaded with their car behind my little Rover 25.

    It wasn't until I started going up the first BIG hill that I suddenly realised what I was doing - thank the Lord their car was only a little 'Micra' or some such - because if it was any bigger I am pretty sure it would have taken my car backwards down the hill I was trying to go up!
     
  13. camcondor

    camcondor Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,044
    Likes Received:
    477
    Location:
    East Midlands
    Thanks Dick and others, not entirely straightforward then, as usual, just as I thought.....:RollEyes:
     
  14. moandick

    moandick Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    Landrake, Cornwall
    Absolutely correct, Laurie - Our Civil Servants just have to make everything just as complicated and difficult as possible - otherwise we might realise that they have nothing else to do!

    And as for the EU Civil servants - well don't even go there !!:Angry:
     
  15. camcondor

    camcondor Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,044
    Likes Received:
    477
    Location:
    East Midlands
    Well exactly, just as intended by the (un)Civil Service - anything other than vague gobbledygook would be quite an affront to any aspirant politician! Now the NHS is trying hard (and succeeding) in doing likewise! So heartwarming to see how well taxpayers money is spent on these fine salaries!!! :Laughing::Laughing::Laughing:
     
  16. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    7,594
    Likes Received:
    3,853
    Location:
    roche cornwall
    if you have a proper artic using construction and use multipliers you can tow 3 times the weight of the tow unit . remember as i keep mentioning to be an artic 20%of the traler wgt must be imposed on the tow unit. everything is easily explained in the transport managers handbook written by DAVID LOWE its about as close as we can get to the laws easily . its used by lots of organisations . worth reading by everyone ,freight haulage association due a similiar version.
     
Loading...

Share This Page