Advice needed, how to remove Starter battery from a 2006 Hymer? (1 Viewer)

[veevee]

Following on from a question on gel v wet batteries I have managed to get a battery to allow us to get back to the UK for our MoT next Tuesday.

But now a big problem, the space available to get the battery through the engine cover is inadequate with either the radiator in situ or the RH engine cover hinge support bracket remaining bonded to the body.

It is possible to get the battery through the opening on the RH side if it can be dragged across the top of the header tank (the header tank and side tank below it would have to support 27 kgs of moving battery) but not happy to do that. Looking at the radiator and a drawing of it the header tank is an integral part of the radiator side tank, the side tank is connected to the alloy rad core and it all sits in 2 pins at the base.

I think getting the old battery out and the new in can easily damage the radiator if not removed, removing the hinge support bracket looks easier and modern fixatives are probably as strong if not as rigid to re-bong it, but this does feel as though it's extreme just to change a battery.

Have I missed something here, how do others change this battery?

It's an early 2006 (model range 2000 - 2006) B680 on a 416 CDI Mercedes Sprinter base

Thanks for any help, ideas very gratefully received

 

[Lenny HB]

If you could take the engine mount off that side and drop the engine a couple inches it may come out. A bit extream but probably easier than removing the radiator, if just a rad not too bad but I assume there is the aircon rad as well.

@DavidG58 may know.

 

[DavidG58]

sorry can't help, mine is under the nearside floor, but I didn't do the work, just paid the bill

looks like a minor disassembly, like my gearbox off to change the turbo, bill was 25% parts 75% labour

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[veevee]

Thanks for the thoughts, and David s probably right a minor but major for a simple job of a battery change disassembly. I was hoping that others had had a battery change in the same engine compartment and a simple miracle answer was available.

Had an idea!

Remove engine cover
Remove engine cover catch cable
Remove RH (looking from front) cover hinge

Place a suitable wooden block across the top of both the white and black engine bay crossmembers. Make a wooden block maybe 15 - 20mm higher than the rad header tank when sitting on the X-members, someone holds this in place. Drag battery out through the gap to the side and just above the header tank across the top of the block. Get a young strong friend to do the dragging.
By having the battery sitting only on the wooden block the radiator is has no contact at all with the battery, but in reality it's as fiddly as hell when standing in front of the Hymer and working out if this will work. If the block moves then we're in trouble.

Does this sound feasible?

Lenny you're right, it has air con and at least 1 oil cooler, there are a lot of rads in the front of this camper

 

[DavidG58]

Maybe change the title of the thread to include Mercedes, might just grab more attention

presumably apart from the smaller bonnet opening it must be a common job on Sprinters

the bits you need to work around look to all be standard Mercedes engine compartment

 

[Lenny HB]

Second thoughts my idea was stupid it won't get the header tank out of the way. Another thought is there a bottom cross member that the rads are mounted on that could be unbolted and dropped a couple of inches with the rads still mounted on it. Or is the header tank separate from the rad and can be removed.

Probably worth ringing round a few Hymer dealers and asking, might save you hours.

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[veevee]

Maybe change the title of the thread to include Mercedes, might just grab more attention

presumably apart from the smaller bonnet opening it must be a common job on Sprinters

the bits you need to work around look to all be standard Mercedes engine compartment

Inside the Hymer body the inner Sprinter engine bay still exists, but as an estimate the area of a Sprinter bonnet opening is maybe 40% larger than the Hymer. If it were a Sprinter it would be possible to semi lift the battery up and out. With the Hymer engine bay opening the battery has to be pulled forward a little, the front end lifted up (at arm's length), pulled forward a little more and starting to turn it to the left repeated a few times. There is (almost) non removable equipment located to the left side and along side of the battery, the inner wing to the right so turning the battery towards the beginning of the RH side of the Hymer opening (which is about 120mm to the left of the left side of the battery) is a difficult task indeed.
I used to own big Citroens and they had some pretty crazy ideas - remove front wing to change battery - but at least they were straight forward you just had to put in the effort. This could end up with as DavidG58 suggested a major job to access the battery. Front end off, radiator and coolers out, disconnect air con plus lots of other bits. It would still be awkward even then but do-able with a good chance of no other damage. A battery is only a service item for goodness sake. What poor detail design this model is, this is the 5th item that is either nonsensical or has been potentially dangerous.
Bought this from the original owner with 8000 miles on it, never had anything more than it's original service. Not one single interior or mechanical item had been touched since it was built, so every thing is down to Hymer.
Don't get me wrong, loved the 2 Hymers we had before this one, but this feels as though it was built by a different company. When in use this is a great MH, but I am now determined to examine everything in particular the electrics bit by bit and make it what it was meant to be.

OK rant over

When we get back to Essex I will ask motor trade friends to either strip the front out the front end or suggest current motor trade methods to tackle this battery change, lucky we love this motor home...

 

[veevee]

Second thoughts my idea was stupid it won't get the header tank out of the way. Another thought is there a bottom cross member that the rads are mounted on that could be unbolted and dropped a couple of inches with the rads still mounted on it. Or is the header tank separate from the rad and can be removed.

Probably worth ringing round a few Hymer dealers and asking, might save you hours.

Thanks for your input Lenny, the header tank is all one piece with the RH (seen from the front) radiator tank, it's all bonded together. If it were a separate header tank life would be very much easier. If another MB 416 (2000 - 2006) owner wants to see a Sprinter factory manual and parts description please let me known and I'll post a link here.

If you know a Hymer dealer workshop that are happy to share there knowledge please let me know, I always though the motor trade kept their secrets close to their chests, and probably rightly so.

 

[Kim H]

We've got a 2004 Hymer 680 and changed our battery 2 years ago. Don't remember having any great difficulty but maybe there are some slight differences in the engine compartment that are difficult to see on the pics. We had ours changed by our friendly mechanic but hubby was watching them do it at the time and said that it looked like a fairly easy job.

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[Lenny HB]

Premier near Chichester are very helpful, I'll pm you contact details later ( when I crawl of of bed).

 

[eddie]

I'd let Halfords do it, they only charge a tenner to fit an engine battery

 

[Lenny HB]

I'd let Halfords do it, they only charge a tenner to fit an engine battery

I don't think he wants to leave his van there for a week with a load of clueless teenagers pulling it apart.

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[veevee]

OK, thanks for all your input, it helps to focus the mind.

I'm going to use the method I mentioned in my second post above. It's possible to clearly see the only method of how most would/could do this operation, it can only work by using the top of the header tank to support the battery on the way out and the way back in, and this is the bit I'm not happy with. So using a crudely fabricated wooden block it will allow batteries to come out and go in using the very limited space to the RH side of the engine bay opening. When we get back to Essex just got to bribe a friend to do the lifting now...


With the RH hinge support bar the battery is just wider than the gap between the bar and the header tank and that's with the hinge assembly removed. If the bonnet is left on and the hinge bracket is still attached it pushes the battery further towards and over the header tank close to and possibly touching the cap.

Wooden block is around 15mm above the header tank. It is made with a step at each end to 'rest' the battery if needed.

The angle of the photo doesn't show completely the extent that the battery is to the right of the opening, but it does show some of equipment the left of the battery allowing for the battery only to be pulled forward to start with before it can be pulled to the left.

 

[gus-lopez]

I'd remove the bonnet & all the bracketry shown on right of photo to allow you to move it as far forward as possible & then lift straight upish using a stepladder to stand on. .As per @Kim H

 

[veevee]

Yes that's the idea, but the support bracket that the hinge assy is attached to is bonded to the body

Thanks Gus

ps: didn't think of the step ladder though

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[XRN]

Thanks for your input Lenny, the header tank is all one piece with the RH (seen from the front) radiator tank, it's all bonded together. If it were a separate header tank life would be very much easier. If another MB 416 (2000 - 2006) owner wants to see a Sprinter factory manual and parts description please let me known and I'll post a link here.QUOTE]

I have a RHD 2000 Mercedes 680 Starline on the same chassis and I changed my battery a month ago without too much trouble but I don't have air con and I can see the space available to you is much tighter. Yours also looks like it is LHD as my brake servo is on the other side. Firstly is the battery the same size as the old one? Try to get it as far forward as you can bit by bit before starting to rotate and tilt it towards the opening. Make sure the terminal cables are secured out of the way as they will interfere with both removal and putting it back. I did rest the battery on the tank to the right of the rad cap for a few seconds to get a breather and it didn't appear to be any problem.
I would be interested in your link to the sprinter manual by the way.
Attached is a pic of my battery and engine bay

[/QUOTE]

 

[veevee]

Yes it's the same as Kim H has XRN, a LHD with aircon. It's also a full auto so there a few extra items in the engine bay too.

A few years back played around with radiators for a couple of years, they are strong but can crack if under an abnormal load. Probably got odds against damage of a 100 : 1, but as I'm aware of the possible problem don't want to be No. 100. And having worked out a way of not having to use the rad tank I'll use it.

Battery is not only the same size but same make and model, but thanks for pointing that out.

I'll post the link here, it's 1200 pages long but you will quickly get the hang of how to get around it, it has a good index. The big bonus is it's all in English, how about that. To see the rad assy look at page 113.

After reading KIM H and now your post, I feel happier that it will be a rotten job but it's completely do-able. Just got to arrange with Eurotunnel to put us at the back of the train so can take the time to jump start it so we can get to Essex.

Just tried to upload the PDF Sprinter file twice but it's too large is the message, it's 39 MB. That's a bit of a shame as it's a wonderful resource for many on this forum.

If you pm me with an email I'll send it across this evening

 

[gus-lopez]

Personally if I was having to do that anytime it was going to need removing I would be looking to move it elsewhere.

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[XRN]

@veevee I have pm'd you my email address.

 

[wigster]

Have pm'd my email as well @veevee could i have a copy of the pdf as well please

 

[veevee]

I've tried to email the manual PDF, Hotmail have a limit of 34 MB so that didn't work. I'll find the source by tomorrow and pm you both with the link for you to download yourselves

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[JeanLuc]

I have a 2003 B630 on a 316 chassis, so the same engine bay. Had to have a new battery a few years ago and called the RAC home start (part of Comfort insurance). The chap got it out without too much trouble. And mine has aircon too.

 

[veevee]

Sprinter 2005 Service Manual should be here -

http://aie-services-2.net/Sprinter/05 service manual.pdf

 

[XRN]

Thanks for the link, really useful.

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[dabhand]

It's entirely possible but not easy so I got a friendly RAC gorilla to do it!

 

[veevee]

OK, battery changed, Elektroblock and display reading correctly again.

Asked mechanic friends to change the battery and between 3 of them and a tiny bit of help from me it was easy. Two took turns to remove cables and clamps (didn't need 2 but they were interested on how this would work), then a third very experienced mechanic and have to add very strong too lifted the old battery out and the new in without removing the engine cover or touching the radiator header tank.
I asked the lifter if he wanted the wooden block I had made to keep the battery above the tank and he said he was confident he could lift it out without having to rest the battery on the radiator. I've known all these people well for 15+ years and do trust them.

He was spot on lifting out although it was difficult even for this tall strong man as he did what he said about not touching the rad on the way out, but lifting back in was slightly different. He realised that he couldn't support the battery long enough to angle it and clear the various minor obstructions at the same time, so I had to support the battery from below to give him the 8 - 10 seconds pause he needed and in it went.

All these mechanics are around 40 years old, quite tall and all fit. So yes Hymer, it can be done without the potential for damage but you do have to know the right people for what should be a very basic and simple exercise.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions, my advice after the event is find a very strong person if you don't want to use the less than strong radiator as a support for a very heavy 26 kgs of battery.

 

[s20hymer]

Sprinter 2005 Service Manual should be here -

http://aie-services-2.net/Sprinter/05 service manual.pdf

Thankyou very much for the link

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