A frames - again

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Gunner29, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. Gunner29

    Gunner29 Read Only Funster

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    English chappie on site here at Javea has towed his car all over Europe France, Germany, Switzerland, Luxemburg, Austria,Italy, Croatia and then across S France to Spain.
    He never had a problem nor was he stopped by the Police. However, as it was his first time in Spain and hearing about the Spanish Police fineing toads he unhooked and his wife drove the car.
    So it would appear that its only the Spanish Police who are on the make.
    Anyone had the same experience in the other countries?
     
  2. Billy23

    Billy23 Funster

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    They are not on the make, as you put it, it is the LAW. If I breakdown with my Spanish car in Spain, I cannot get my mate (or anybody else) to tow me home or to a garage, it HAS to be lifted by a breakdown truck.....TOW NO WAY, not just for MH`s towing a car on A Frame.

    All you have to understand is that it is NOT the police being "Funny", they are just up holding the law of Spain. People might not like it but that is how it is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
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  3. Gunner29

    Gunner29 Read Only Funster

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    a sorry tale

    OK I don't know if its true BUT was told a story of a couple towing and were stopped by the Spanish Police. The wife couldn't drive so they were fined E 250 and sent on their way!!!! :Angry:They stopped for a long time in an aire JUST in case the Police had radioed ahead to their mates so they could do the same. :Eeek:
    As I say its a story BUT:Eeek:
     
  4. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    Agreed Bill, and i posted the same a long time ago.

    i think the problem is the police 'turned a blind eye' to it for a long time, as far as foreign A frame users are concerned, but are now tightening up on this official Spanish road rule.

    folks seem to think it is a money maker for the Spanish authorities but the number of A frame users being stopped and fined isnt going to solve their financial problems any time soon.
     
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  5. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Its due to the belief that you are towing a car in contravention of Spanish law:RollEyes:
    clearly you are not:Doh:
    You are towing a trailer, UK law says so:Wink::Wink:
    I assume towing trailers and caravans with A frames is still legal in Spain:RollEyes:
     
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  6. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

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    If ever a law looks like it was forced through by a big company or trade association that does.
     
  7. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    but a trailer or caravan isnt a motorised vehicle Geo...and you know it :reel::reel: :Rofl1:


    BTW...no response on the MOT thread yet :Doh:
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  8. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Try driving the toad with the A frame still attached and see what they say:Rofl1:
    If they argue that the A frame is only bolted I would say, so is the engine Ill take that out instead :Wink:
     
  9. Wildbill

    Wildbill Funster

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    if thay see this thread thay may pass a new law baning towing trailers with a frames if you have a British registered car:Rofl1::Rofl1:
     
  10. Xabia

    Xabia Funster

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    I live in Spain for around 4 months each year. The law in Spain has always stipulated that you cannot tow a car by any means whatever. It has to be done by a Grau (breakdown truck). All car insurance policies in Spain include breakdown cover as a standard feature for that very reason.

    I have a vested interest as I used to tow my Smart car to/from my house in Spain but now the A frame is stored in mygarage there.

    There is no point in trying to argue that the car is a trailer, clearly it isn't - it has it's own motive power, etc etc.

    It is not just the Spanish police imposing fines on A frame users, it is happening in Germany as well.

    Mike
     
  11. chesterfield hooligan

    chesterfield hooligan Funster

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    :Smile: surly you can tow on a UK reg vehicle and trailer :Smile:
     
  12. Theonlysue

    Theonlysue Funster Life Member

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    A frames again

    Surely, if you don't want the aggravation - when in Rome
    (or Spain).............?:BigGrin:
     
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  13. Billy23

    Billy23 Funster

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    It goes on and ON, you CAN tow a trailer, with a UK car or any other car (must carry with you the paperwork for the trailer ie weight) you CANNOT tow a car at all, by rope, A frame or any other frame.

    Laws are NOT the same in every country in Europe, GPS France comes to mind, I do understand that some people don't like it, BUT IT IS THE LAW IN SPAIN!!! end of.:Doh:
     
  14. Theonlysue

    Theonlysue Funster Life Member

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    A frames again...



    Oooh - Mr Grumpy:Rofl1: Just some friendly chat:BigGrin:

    But I was at the same campsite, and I did also wonder how these UK folk we
    still towing on an A frame.
    Dont get me wrong, I am in total agreement with yourself, the law is the law, in the respective country I'm afraid, if you agree with it or not :hardhat:

    S, from a sunny spain :Cool::Cool::Cool:
     
  15. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Ok one last chance to understand

    No one disputes the Law in Spain is the law in Spain--- NO TOWING OF MOTOR CARS:thumb:
    Excepted, your correct, its a done deal, I understand

    BUT

    When I BOLT on, Not clip on, Not tie on, an A frame to a Car, I am according to UK law converting my car to a trailer, not towing a car but converting acar The UK Law says so and as we all seem to except the Law is the Law.
    Dont belive me
    1. check out the DVLA and The Dept for Transports web sites, its there for all to see
    2. try driving your "Car" with the A frame still Bolted on it, Plod will then confirm its a trailer too:thumb:
    Or at least confirm it no longer conforms to the construction and use regs for a "Motor Vehicle" (Car)

    So, except that argument and you will soon see that the only EU law Breaker is Spain, by virtue preventing the free passage of a member states road legal vehicle to pass unhindered as agreed by Spain and the rest of the EU via the Geneva agreement
    I am not asking or expecting Spain to change its Law on Towing, Because in the excepted sense of the word I am not Towing any differently to a trailer or caravan that use Bolted On A Frames

    They have chosen to apply laws designed, to control, often very unsafe break down recovery practices by individuals, to a perfectly legitimate leisure industry practice of safe purpose built Conversion equipment
    We aint Towing remember that:Angry:
    G
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
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  16. Billy23

    Billy23 Funster

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    Sorry..Didn't mean to be Mr Grumpy, but boy has this been done to death on here.

    Some people say that if they bolt the "CAR" on it is OK in UK law, Yup! they could be right, but when they enter Spain, it aint alright, just like when you are in UK you don't need to carry a breath test kit, but you will have to in France, just like when you enter France you cannot have speed camera alert on your Gps, it is no good sayin (in France) well mr policeman its OK in the UK so it OK in France, it wont work, why, because it is the law in France.

    In the UK you dont have to carry your driving documents, or (if you wear glasses) you dont have to carry a spare pair, in Spain you have to, and on and on, different countries different laws.

    Well in Spain, Spanish law, dare I say, is Spanish law, you dont have to agree with the law, any country you want to visit you will know the laws of that country, dont like them, well dont come. Simples.

    I will now go and sit in the sun and resist the urge to follow the thread, cos it is in a circle:hardhat:
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
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  17. Barclaybasher

    Barclaybasher Funster

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    In Spain 'Gruas' (breakdown vehicles) are also very active removing illegally parked cars to police compounds - no clamping - you get back to your parked car to find just a sticker on the kerb................they are probably more active 'helping' the police than attending breakdowns............

    If A frames are not allowed in a particular country either don't take your toad or put it on a trailer......................
     
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  18. Reallyretired

    Reallyretired Funster

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    :party2:Hooray; another Aframe thread:party2:
     
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  19. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    There ya go again Muddy the water why dont ya:Doh:
    Im not talking about Spains Laws im taliking about vehicle recognition ie what is deemed what and what its used for
    and the agreement signed up to by Spain to recognise all member states vehicles for what they are recognised as in its home state, this is to prevent stupid laws that might say for

    Example

    Spain can not pass a law saying all vehicles must be L/H Drive R/H Drive has to be excepted

    Spain can not pass a law that all trailers must have 4 wheels two wheels have to be excepted

    Spain can not pass a law that says what is and is not a trailer in the UK
    Only the UK can do that, and Spain signed up to except that the use of a vehicle shall be excepted provide that use is legal in its home state--- end of
    What has any of the above to do with Spanish Law:Doh:
    I want to pull my legal UK recognised trailer in Spain

    If your statements are correct explain why I don't need separate registration plates for my Bryan James trailer when Spain's Law says I do according to you:Doh:
    Its a simple fact, Spain is applying its own recovery laws to prevent the legitimate use of my trailer, just because it dont look like a spanish trailer
    They Cant Do That ----------------- simples
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
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  20. Billy23

    Billy23 Funster

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    Im back again:Smile:

    Trailer, over 750KG does need to be tested (if Spanish) if not Spanish you must carry the papers for the trailer in your car.

    The rest of the comment shows me that you just dont know Spain and what they can do and what they dont do:Smile:

    They cannot charge you an import duty on your car when you bring it into Spain from the UK to register it here.......OH! yes they can, is it against EU regs....OH yes it is!....do they care ......OH no they dont!....can you do anything about it....OH no you carnt!!

    Its Spain, dont like....Dont come, Simples!!

    Now I really must get back to the sun, I only came in for a coffee:Rofl1:
     
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