Fiat Ducato tag axle handbrake adjustment. (1 Viewer)

[Mr David]

Does anyone know what the 'special technique' is for making the Fiat Ducato tag axle parking brake behave like a emergency brake such that it will pass its technical inspection (MOT). We've set it up as per the Fiat instructions, followed all the advice that has been posted on 'Motorhomefun' and from other forums but still it won't pass its technical inspection. So, please, does anyone know what this 'special technique' is?

Vehicle details:- 2012 N+B Arto79R rated at 5500kg.
And I'm based in Slovenia!

 

[Mr David]

The following was posted on an Irish motorhome forum:-

"There are two reasons why a good handbrake will fail in a FIAT Ducato, both related to the fact that it's not a handbrake in the traditional sense, it's a parking brake

1. It's a parking brake, designed to hold the vehicle when already stationary, it's design function is not for it to be applied when in motion to bring the vehicle to a halt, in the manner of an emergency brake or the traditional handbrake.
2. The 'handbrake' itself is a small drum brake, about the size as that in the back of the old Mini, which gets no use when the vehicle is being driven. For that reason there is an inevitable build up of rust and dust which reduces it's stopping effect.

The proper way to test the type of brake in the Ducato is to test the effort required to overcome its holding power. Testing its stopping power is to misunderstand its function.

The best thing to do before a test is to drive a few hundred metres, or further, with the handbrake light applied to clean off any rust and create a clean contact area."

AND:-

"The 'problem' with Alko double axle systems (tags) is that they are two separate axles separately bolted to the chassis. In this configuration the load is only shared equally when both axles are on level ground.
When being tested the axle on the rolling road is lower than the one not being tested and has much of its load removed by the one on the solid ground. This prevents an accurate measurement of the effectiveness of it brakes.

The normal set-up for a tag, as in HGV's etc., is that both axles are connected to the chassis/suspension system so that the load is shared equally, even when they are on significantly uneven surfaces.

To accurately test the brakes on an Alko double axle configuration a double rolling road, spaced the same as the axles, needs to be used." End of quotes.

Unless this description is inaccurate, then it explains why Fiat/Ducato tag axle motorhomes have such problems passing their MOTs and the need for a 'special technique' when setting up and adjusting the 'handbrake'

 

[WESTY66]

My handbrake wasn’t so good when I picked it up despite it just having gone through an mot (maybe good enough to pass the mot but not good enough for my expectations) so I set about sorting it, I went through the fiat description of what to do, no better I think the fiat instructions fall down on the handbrake adjuster when it says tighten to something like 8NM, my torque wrench never clicked until the wheels were solid
So I set about doing it my way, what I did was back off the handbrake cable adjuster a little then set the little shoes in the top hat of the brake discs so they were JUST missing the surface which I did by listening whilst rotating the disc. When it was just catching the surface, backed the ratchet within the top hat offa notch, did same on other side, then adjusted the handbrake for 5-6 clicks and voila!
Been great ever since (15000 miles) and was complimented by the next MOT guy how good the handbrake was

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[Mr David]

My handbrake wasn’t so good when I picked it up despite it just having gone through an mot (maybe good enough to pass the mot but not good enough for my expectations) so I set about sorting it, I went through the fiat description of what to do, no better I think the fiat instructions fall down on the handbrake adjuster when it says tighten to something like 8NM, my torque wrench never clicked until the wheels were solid
So I set about doing it my way, what I did was back off the handbrake cable adjuster a little then set the little shoes in the top hat of the brake discs so they were JUST missing the surface which I did by listening whilst rotating the disc. When it was just catching the surface, backed the ratchet within the top hat offa notch, did same on other side, then adjusted the handbrake for 5-6 clicks and voila!
Been great ever since (15000 miles) and was complimented by the next MOT guy how good the handbrake was

Thanks.

So if I understand you correctly, you basically followed the Fiat procedure but at the point were the shoes are just touching the drums you deviated from the Fiat procedure by backing the adjuster off one more notch, then you carried on with the Fiat procedure?

 

[WESTY66]

Some people just kiss the surface some don’t, none are right or wrong. I deviated at the handbrake adjuster end, I followed the instructions inc torque settings but the wrench wouldn’t click off at their settings so I did it my way!
Not saying it’s right or wrong but it worked for me

 

[Mr David]

Some people just kiss the surface some don’t, none are right or wrong. I deviated at the handbrake adjuster end, I followed the instructions inc torque settings but the wrench wouldn’t click off at their settings so I did it my way!
Not saying it’s right or wrong but it worked for me

Thank you sharing your technique. It seems that the subtlety of getting it right is quite an art. Maybe that's why nobody else has been able, so far, to define it.

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[maz]

Some people just kiss the surface some don’t, none are right or wrong. I deviated at the handbrake adjuster end, I followed the instructions inc torque settings but the wrench wouldn’t click off at their settings so I did it my way!
Not saying it’s right or wrong but it worked for me

Somehow I was expecting something more arcane, possibly involving the summoning of demons!

 

[WESTY66]

Somehow I was expecting something more arcane, possibly involving the summoning of demons!

Nah, it’s easy really, nothing to fear

 

[martin2603]

If your MH is low at the front end then in order to give additional effort at the rear put some extra "Ballast " in the rear locket to increase load on the rearmost axle and thus increase grip.

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[Mr David]

My handbrake wasn’t so good when I picked it up despite it just having gone through an mot (maybe good enough to pass the mot but not good enough for my expectations) so I set about sorting it, I went through the fiat description of what to do, no better I think the fiat instructions fall down on the handbrake adjuster when it says tighten to something like 8NM, my torque wrench never clicked until the wheels were solid
So I set about doing it my way, what I did was back off the handbrake cable adjuster a little then set the little shoes in the top hat of the brake discs so they were JUST missing the surface which I did by listening whilst rotating the disc. When it was just catching the surface, backed the ratchet within the top hat offa notch, did same on other side, then adjusted the handbrake for 5-6 clicks and voila!
Been great ever since (15000 miles) and was complimented by the next MOT guy how good the handbrake was

I think I may have missed a point in your description when you said you did it your way. Am I correct in thinking that after you set your tag axle handbrake in accordance with the Fiat instructions and then finding no improvement, you then only 'backed off the handbrake cable adjuster a little'. Would that be nut 1a in the attached file? You then followed the Fiat procedure?
If that is the case then that is the significant subtle difference in your method, that worked, compared with Fiat procedure. Because the Fiat method say loosen the handbrake nut (1a), until cables (1b) are slack.
Have I now understood your method or am I still missing something?
I very much appreciate your input, thank you.

 

[WESTY66]

Nope, loose the nut, set the handbrakes in the top hat, and then adjust handbrake to around 6 notches!
I read some fiat instructions that said tighten the nut up to 8NM but that didn’t work for me so I did it the way above
I’m sorry i didn’t make myself clear, I only have the single axle not a tag, but I would expect if you set the handbrake shoes in all 4 top hats then did the cable adjustment you should get the same results

 

[Mr David]

Nope, loose the nut, set the handbrakes in the top hat, and then adjust handbrake to around 6 notches!
I read some fiat instructions that said tighten the nut up to 8NM but that didn’t work for me so I did it the way above
I’m sorry i didn’t make myself clear, I only have the single axle not a tag, but I would expect if you set the handbrake shoes in all 4 top hats then did the cable adjustment you should get the same results

Hopefully I'm beginning to see what you are doing?
So after following the procedure until the point before the final phase, instead of placing the handbrake lever in the 6th notch, you first left it in the rest position, tighten the nut (1) until the wheels lock when the handbrake lever is pulled to the 5th or 6th notch. And disregard the torque setting with handbrake lever in the 6th notch position?
Have I got it now?

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[L' Hobo]

I have had a conversation a number of times with my friendly, but straight, MOT tester who will insist on testing my Ducato's Park brake, using the same rolling road method, used on other vehicles.
They should be tested to HOLD on a certain degree of de/incline, not to slow the vehicle down!

My vehicle is driven at least once a fortnight, 12 months a year, so rust in the top hat drum is not a problem.
On the way to the MOT station after taking it for a 20ml run.
I apply the brake lever about 3 times hard for a couple of seconds (basically on & off again) when it is safe to do so.

So far, my 2007 vehicle has passed it's MOT so I will be continuing this practice.

 

[WESTY66]

Hopefully I'm beginning to see what you are doing?
So after following the procedure until the point before the final phase, instead of placing the handbrake lever in the 6th notch, you first left it in the rest position, tighten the nut (1) until the wheels lock when the handbrake lever is pulled to the 5th or 6th notch. And disregard the torque setting with handbrake lever in the 6th notch position?
Have I got it now?

Yes, that’s it it works for me, good luck with it, let me know how you get on
You just might need to fine tune the nut on the handbrake cable to get to 5-6 clicks on the lever

 

[Mr David]

Yes, that’s it it works for me, good luck with it, let me know how you get on
You just might need to fine tune the nut on the handbrake cable to get to 5-6 clicks on the lever

We remembered who used to adjust my partner's van in the early 2010's and I have just been able to speak to him on the phone. He adjusted her tag axle in a very similar way, without torque up that nut and it always passed. I'll update when I know more and thanks again.

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[gus-lopez]

I can never understand what the UK mot's fascination is with "5 or 6 clicks" on the handbrake? Why ? An electric one it is on or off. :All I ever do is adjust with handbrake in the rest position why would you do anything else? One click is enough:
I can understand why the yanks refer to them as "emergency brake" & rarely ever use or maintain them

 

[Lenny HB]

I can understand why the yanks refer to them as "emergency brake" & rarely ever use or maintain them

Yet to come across one that would stop a vehicle in an emergency.

 

[Mr David]

I have now passed the Technical inspection with the handbrake pass at 18%

The handbrake was adjusted in the same way that Maz's tag axle Hobby750 was adjusted by Glen from P and W Commercials of Binders Yard, High Wycombe (01494 714 714). It always passed first time after he did the adjustments.

The Fiat procedure was followed up to the final part and thereafter, with the handbrake in the off position, tighten the handbrake adjustment nut until it is just pulling on the brake shoes with all wheels showing the same drag. Then backing off the adjuster until the shoes just release on all wheels at the same time. Pull the handbrake up a few times and then check again that all wheels have similar friction on partial handbrake operation. Finally see how many clicks on the handbrake lock the wheels, 5 or 6 locked all wheels for me.

The only difference between Glen's way and Westy66's way is that Westy66 has a single rear axle and I have a twin rear axle.

So that seems to be the ‘Special Technique’ for adjusting the handbrake on a ‘tag’ axle motorhome.

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