Yet more up-plating questions (1 Viewer)

[Two on Tour]

Our motorhome is a 2013 Elddis Autoquest 175.
Right, we are currently plated at 3300 Kg which the Elddis blurb states that we have a 365 Kg payload available and having just fitted a towbar, air assist rear suspension, solar panel, satellite dish, second leisure battery and other gubins, that lot has wiped 100 Kg off our available payload.
I've been in contact with John Ruffles with the view to up-plating to 3500 Kg. After sending him various details of our van he has come back saying that we could if we wanted go up to 3650 Kg or even 3850 Kg which I was not expecting.
So my dilemma is what are the pro's and con's of going above 3500 Kg. At 3500 Kg we would have about 465 Kg free payload and I have another 8 years before worrying about the implications of the C1 if we go above the 3500 Kg.

 

[andy63]

I would want to know whether you have established your payload by actually weighing your mh or are you just goin of the manufacturer blurb. ..
You need to weigh it if you haven' alreday done so... you may find that to have any sort of decent payload you will want the max possible gross weight...
Andy

 

[vwalan]

i say go as high as you can. if needed its only a paper exercise to lower it later if need be .

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[Wagoneer]

With this layout of van, 7m long, a good proportion of the load is going to be over the rear axle.

So, if you upgrade to 3650 or 3850 what is the increase in the permissible rear axle load? What size wheels do you have 15" or 16"?

I wouldn't be too impressed by claims of 3650/3850 - it's the maximum permissible load on the rear axle that is the most important.

It may be worth getting a second opinion by contacting SVTech for a free assessment.

 

[Blue Knight]

Elddis blurb states that we have a 365 Kg payload available and having just fitted a towbar, air assist rear suspension, solar panel, satellite dish, second leisure battery and other gubins, that lot has wiped 100 Kg off our available payload.

I always think that Brit vans (like many continental vans) are heavier in real life than what their MIROs suggest.

I would take circa 120kg off the payload due to the kit that you'e added and I would also remove a further 100kg based on my opening paragraph.

Therefore, I reckon that your final maximum payload figure is about 145kg in real world figures but, like the others have mentioned, the only way to understand the problem is to visit the weighbridge.

All the best, and good luck,

Andrew

 

[Deleted member 29692]

@CCC Before you even think about uplating you need to confirm that payload figure.

If all you have is Eldiss' word for it assume it's somewhere between hopelessly optimistic and an outright lie.

You need to get yourself to a weigh bridge, get an accurate figure and take it from there.

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[Two on Tour]

I would want to know whether you have established your payload by actually weighing your mh or are you just goin of the manufacturer blurb. ..
You need to weigh it if you haven' alreday done so... you may find that to have any sort of decent payload you will want the max possible gross weight...
Andy

Andy, here's a link to some of the spec's Elddis state for the van.

It's a two berth so it's unlikely to be loaded up top the hilt (yes I know there will be more weighty crap carted along than I would think). My asking for pro's and con's was more aimed at the pro's, yes I know you can never have to much available payload, but what about the con's of speed limits, insurance, tolls and the like.

With this layout of van, 7m long, a good proportion of the load is going to be over the rear axle.

So, if you upgrade to 3650 or 3850 what is the increase in the permissible rear axle load? What size wheels do you have 15" or 16"?

I wouldn't be too impressed by claims of 3650/3850 - it's the maximum permissible load on the rear axle that is the most important.

It may be worth getting a second opinion by contacting SVTech for a free assessment.

No details at present as to the rear axle figures as it very early days in the exercise, but John Ruffles is no fly by night so I'm happy trust his opinions and views.

Yes, there is a fare length past the rear axle but pretty well all of that is the bathroom that takes up 1.4 metres of the 2 metre overhang so not a lot of extra weight expected above what's in there now other than a few bits of hanging clothing in the wardrobe and the nose weight of the trailer when towing.

I would plan to go with the higher plating figure but was insure of the likely implications this will bring with the points I raise above.

 

[pappajohn]

Two obvious advantages.......
£165 per year road tax (hasn't increased for years)
Less chance of overloading.

Disadvantages......
reduced speed limits 50mph A roads, 60mph dual carriageway, 60mph motorway.
Various Foreign restrictions...village access, speed etc.
I would go as high as possible.

 

[Two on Tour]

Disadvantages......
reduced speed limits 50mph A roads, 60mph dual carriageway, 60mph motorway.
Various Foreign restrictions...village access, speed etc.

I suppose they are only really picked up on if your stopped and the plate is checked ?

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[Puddleduck]

I think the speed limits on the UK are based on unladen weight and unless that is shown on your V5 (unlikely) no one knows what that is in a motorhome. We are plated at 3650 but the unladen weight is less than 3050 so lower speed limits don't apply (at least in the UK). Since we are rarely in a hurry it is an academic issue anyway.

 

[Nirvanauk]

But have you had it on a weigh bridge? I was told I had 500kg of payload and took it to a weigh bridge and it showed less than 100kg free!

 

[Lenny HB]

I uprated our last van from 3500 to 3850 in reality I only gained 150kg due to rear axle loading but still worth while. Didn't mess about this time, new van is on a 4500kg chassis and I've only got 2½ years to 70. If I don't pass the medical at 70 a good excuse for a new van.

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[Astro]

Two obvious advantages.......

Disadvantages......
reduced speed limits 50mph A roads, 60mph dual carriageway, 60mph motorway.

Isn't it still 70mph on motorways for Motorhomes over 3050kg unladen weight providing they are under 12m in length and not towing a trailer ??
https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

 

[Lenny HB]

Isn't it still 70mph on motorways for Motorhomes over 3050kg unladen weight providing they are under 12m in length and not towing a trailer ??
https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

Yes.

 

[vwalan]

but so long as you can do more than 25mph its ok not to go that fast. 35-40mph is ideal .

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[Two on Tour]

Does the plated weight govern the vehicle class for mot's ?

 

[Two on Tour]

Did a Google search and answered my own question.

 

[Two on Tour]

I have found that there is a certified weighbridge just 6 mile away from us, so as the motorhome is empty of clutter and gear at the moment I'll pop across in the morning and get it weighed in it's unladen weight state. As the UK speed limits are quoted on the Gov.UK as unladen weight this will put that one to bed if pulled over.

Checked our insurance and breakdown cover and the likes and as a result I have given the go ahead to pursue the 3850 Kg route

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[Deleted member 29692]

I have found that there is a certified weighbridge just 6 mile away from us, so as the motorhome is empty of clutter and gear at the moment I'll pop across in the morning and get it weighed in it's unladen weight state. As the UK speed limits are quoted on the Gov.UK as unladen weight this will put that one to bed if pulled over.

Checked our insurance and breakdown cover and the likes and as a result I have given the go ahead to pursue the 3850 Kg route

There's no possible way you can obtain the unladen weight. All you will get is some variation of MIRO which isn't the same thing at all. There's a very specific definition of unladen weight part of which states fuel is not included.

The manufacturers don't know it either which is why they don't quote it anywhere.

It can only effectively be measured as the vehicle comes off the production line. It would be impractical, verging on impossible, to obtain it at a later date.

Ignore the speed limit thing, it's not enforceable for the very simple reason that unladen weight is not recorded for motorhomes. It's just some weird glitch in UK law that nobody cares enough about to fix - unladen weight is only used to set speed limits for motor caravans, no other class of vehicle. Unladen weight is not recorded for motor caravans, it is for almost all other classes.

 

[Langtoftlad]

I have found that there is a certified weighbridge just 6 mile away from us, so as the motorhome is empty of clutter and gear at the moment I'll pop across in the morning and get it weighed in it's unladen weight state.

No, pack it up as if setting off for a trip, full tanks, both passengers - then weigh it - only then will you really know where you are with overall & axle weights

 

[Two on Tour]

I take on board your comments @NickNic and @Langtoftlad but I think I'll get it weighed anyway as I'm interested in what it weighs before and after it's loaded up.

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[Ninjabob]

Interesting topic. I recently bought a Bailey 75-2 and as I have a C1 licence decided that a payload of 315kg was not enough so had it uprated by Bailey to 3850kg. So 665kg payload - or maybe not!

This was intended to be my luxury two berth keeper Motorhome so I started to add the extras I really wanted. ALKO Towbar, Spare Wheel and Carrier, Oyster 85cm Autoskew, Truma Comfort Air Con and finally MA-VE hydraulic levelling.

So off to the weighbridge loaded with SWMBO (70kg) me (big git 110kg) and full tank of diesel, 10% water, empty waste, two 6kg gas cylinders, one leisure battery, two Avtex TVs, small toolkit, jack and gubbins removed (not needed), lightweight chairs x 4, BBQ, Vanco Kela III awning with groundsheet, lighting etc. Clothes and all gubbins to survive for three days and not much in the fridge.

Spec weights 2000kg max on the rear and 1850 max on the front.

Off to the weighbridge:

Front 1720kg
Rear 1940kg
Total 3660kg

So from my trip to the weighbridge I learnt a lot:

Anything really heavy needs to be towards the front of the under seat lounge lockers.

Lightweight, big volume stuff only under the French Bed at the rear.

Don't travel with much more than a half full water tank.

Although you are getting a 350kg weight upgrade a lot of that is only possible if moved towards the front axle.

Dissapointment for me may be keeping the weight down (SMART Car) on the back if I decide I need a trailer (nose weight) for European trips instead of the A Frame (no affect on payload) I currently have.

I am happy that I will be able to keep within the law even on longer trips.



I hope the original poster is going to get quite a pleasant suprise when putting his fully loaded Motorhome on a weighbridge, but put it on he must!

 

[Blue Knight]

But have you had it on a weigh bridge? I was told I had 500kg of payload and took it to a weigh bridge and it showed less than 100kg free!

Wow, I bet that came as a bit of a shock. That's still a few boxes of wine though as long as you don't take any pants or socks.

 

[Neckender]

On my V5 it states
Mass in service 2945kg.
What’s all that about.

John"

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[Blue Knight]

On my V5 it states
Mass in service 2945kg.
What’s all that about.

John"

John, I initially thought it was the MIRO figure but if that was case then my V5 would state 2,970kg (the actual MIRO of my van) and not 3,070kg as is written on my V5 currently.

Cheers,

Andrew

 

[Minxy]

With this layout of van, 7m long, a good proportion of the load is going to be over the rear axle.

So, if you upgrade to 3650 or 3850 what is the increase in the permissible rear axle load? What size wheels do you have 15" or 16"?

I wouldn't be too impressed by claims of 3650/3850 - it's the maximum permissible load on the rear axle that is the most important.

It may be worth getting a second opinion by contacting SVTech for a free assessment.

I suspect the reason for the choice of uprate options is due to the fact that the OP has had rear suspension air assistance fitted so can go to 3850kg but without it would probably only have been able to go up to 3650kg. As it makes not difference whatsoever might as well go for the higher 3850 kg MAM.

Weighbridge checks are imperative though, fully kitted out for going away including full fuel, water, gas, food, clothes, drinks, pets and of course all of those who will be travelling in it. Whilst the MH may be under the overall 'new' uprated weight the individual axle weights still need to be borne in mind so neither are exceeded, the only way to ensure this is to fully load up to find out how the stuff on board 'distributes' the weight between the 2 axles.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I take on board your comments @NickNic and @Langtoftlad but I think I'll get it weighed anyway as I'm interested in what it weighs before and after it's loaded up.

Absolutely, you should definitely know what it weighs both loaded for a trip and unloaded.

The point I was making is don't mistake the "unloaded" weight for Unladen Weight. It's not the same thing at all.

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[Two on Tour]

Ok, just got back from the weighbridge.

The van is empty, no fresh or grey water, one virtually full 6 Kg Calor lite bottle and just under half a tank of fuel
Non standard bits that are fitted at present with any weigh to worry about, a 150 watt solar panel, additional 110 Ah leisure battery, Snipe 2 satellite dish and a 1000 watt inverter.

The van weighed in at 2840 Kg with me not in it.

 

[Minxy]

That means that you're okay regarding UK speed limits if you go over the 3500kg if you uprate, and have a better payload than the spec states so it's really whether you want to just go up to 3500kg or over, if you have to pay you might as well go to the max you can and benefit from reduced road tax.

 

[Ninjabob]

Ok, just got back from the weighbridge.

The van is empty, no fresh or grey water, one virtually full 6 Kg Calor lite bottle and just under half a tank of fuel
Non standard bits that are fitted at present with any weigh to worry about, a 150 watt solar panel, additional 110 Ah leisure battery, Snipe 2 satellite dish and a 1000 watt inverter.

The van weighed in at 2840 Kg with me not in it.

Did you have weighed - front axle only - rear axle only. That is the info you need so as to spread any load throughout the Motorhome.

Really you want to be weighing the van fully loaded with you and others on board, full tank of fuel ready to set off on an adventure then the 2840 Kg figure might look very different.

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