WW II in France (1 Viewer)

[olley]

Hard done by because Roosvelt matched them in savagery

Your history marks? Zero

President Truman

After Japanese leaders flatly rejected the Potsdam Declaration, President Trumanauthorized use of the atomic bomb anytime after August 3, 1945. On the clear morning of August 6, the first atomic bomb, nicknamed Little Boy, was dropped on the city of Hiroshima.

 

[ambulancekidd]

Close to Bastoyne in belgium ,there is a german cemetery i did a quick head count on the crosses and came up with a rough number ,cant remember the count but when i got close to the white crosses ,they had 3 names on the front and 3 names on the back ,apparently the Americans were buiried in a cemetery accross the road from the Germans ,the yanks took exception to being so close to their enemies so they removed the GI,s and transported them home to the states
the area is known for the battle of the bulge

I did not feel anger or any negative feelings towards the german dead ,i just felt sorrow at the waste of young lifes

My granddad was a tail gunner on Lancaster's, he was badly injured over Essen & one day whilst watching a war with him I asked "how did he feel about Germans then & now?". His answer taught me a lot. He said that "the German people had made a mistake in allowing a dictator to become Chancellor & that they were only proud humans trying to protect their homeland & their pride, my Granddad then pointed out that if we were protecting our homeland against a potential invader that the Brits would be exactly the same". He then surprised me further by saying that the UK & France had caused the war by causing huge damage to the German economy as a result of WW1, this allowed a dictator like Hitler to rise to power. I was just a boy in single figures, but even back then I figured that my Granddad was fully qualified to have his opinion as he had actually been through the war. To this day I feel exactly the same way.

 

[Chris]

Quite a few German apologists on here I see.

WW2 was our fault now.

Oh Please!

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[olley]

Churchill that old warmonger, he started it.

 

[2657]

Quite a few German apologists on here I see.

WW2 was our fault now.

Oh Please!

All I can say is read up on your history.......things are very rarely as simple as they seem, as Newtpns law says to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

I am no apologist for Hitler or Germany but as in all conflicts the past has a strong bearing on the present, or the past as it is now, gets complicated does it not!

 

[ambulancekidd]

Quite a few German apologists on here I see.

WW2 was our fault now.

Oh Please!

WW2 was brought about by Hitler managing to stir the German people up enough to lead them into a madman's war.
The German people were badly treated by The Treaty of Versailles & were ripe for Hitler's picking, this was Britain & Frances fault, they showed no mercy to the German People after WW1. The people were starving & had hyperinflation, that was never going to end well.

So to give my opinion, yes the Germans started the war & I didn't mean to offend you @Chris. The lead up to this war was a long & complicated process & we must shoulder some responsibility. So please let me put it another way, if Germany had won WW1 & treated us in the way that we treated them I think something similar might well have happened. The Nazi's were evil personified, but the average German wasn't like that, just proud people trying to survive a terrible war. Germans have learned from the war, but the big question is have we?

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[Chris]

I would love to have this discussion with my grand dads.

Problem is one is stuck in Normandy and the other in Jokakama , Japan.

I have been to see them both but there was no conversation.

There is no excuse for WW2

 

[2657]

I would love to have this discussion with my grand dads.

Problem is one is stuck in Normandy and the other in Jokakama , Japan.

I have been to see them both but there was no conversation.

There is no excuse for WW2

No there is not but as I said there is no simple answer to the causes of that war, and lots of ordinary people who would have much preferred to get on with their lives died on all sides of the conflict.

 

[rangi]

Your history marks? Zero

President Truman
QUOTE]





Almost right tho,

I knew it had a T in it

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[olley]

I worked with a German in about 1968, he told me about his childhood, not nice, then this guy comes along and says your great, our country is great, be proud. He said I thought Hitler was great, we all did.

No excuse for war, but when your 18-20 you believe in these people.

 

[Mack100]

I would love to have this discussion with my grand dads.

Problem is one is stuck in Normandy and the other in Jokakama , Japan.

I have been to see them both but there was no conversation.

There is no excuse for WW2

Whereabouts in Normandy is your Grandfathers grave? I'll be there on June 6th, you never know I might be near where he is buried.

 

[Chris]

Whereabouts in Normandy is your Grandfathers grave? I'll be there on June 6th, you never know I might be near where he is buried.

He is in Bayeaux , bless him.

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[maison]

My God.

I certainly stirred things up with my Post. Not intentionally.

I was merely interested in the reasons for the many memorials in our area and was making no judgements on either side.

There are memorials here with stories more horrifying than the one I posted. Living in the area, and seeing them, gave me pause for thought.

 

[hilldweller]

I certainly stirred things up with my Post. Not intentionally.

Long may it continue. We really don't want a repeat.

Millions said the same in 1919.

 

[rangi]

I was in Paderborn, West Germany (still divided at that time) I was in uniform, supposed to meet a mate I'd joined up with. The pub by the Cathedral he said, the Cathedral had 2 sides, I was at the wrong side.
I walked into the Pub, started to look for me mate, walked into the big hall at the back, noticed all sorts of div signs over the wall and fellas about 40-50 years old. I had mistakingly walked into a reunion of the "Paderborner Panzers" I went to leave and a fella invited me to stay, being a typical Squaddie the offer of free meal and all the grog I could drink was not passed up!
I had a very pleasant evening, at that point in time we squaddies had a "Cinderella curfew" we had to be back at Barracks by 2359hrs. As I left the Hall they were all up singing, slapping their thighs in time and stamping their feet.

AND! I, after watching them, came away with the firm belief that if someone gave them a weapon and pointed them in the direction of Poland , they would do it all over again!


.

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[maison]

I was in Paderborn, West Germany (still divided at that time) I was in uniform, supposed to meet a mate I'd joined up with. The pub by the Cathedral he said, the Cathedral had 2 sides, I was at the wrong side.
I walked into the Pub, started to look for me mate, walked into the big hall at the back, noticed all sorts of div signs over the wall and fellas about 40-50 years old. I had mistakingly walked into a reunion of the "Paderborner Panzers" I went to leave and a fella invited me to stay, being a typical Squaddie

AND! I, after watching them, came away with the firm belief that if someone gave them a weapon and pointed them in the direction of Poland , they would do it all over again!


.

My word @rangitira ,

The thread is almost as old as WWII.

It’s great when old old threads suddenly gain a new life. We can all learn from other people’s experience.

Perhaps your “Paderborner Panzers” are the new towel warriors of the Costa del Sol.

 

[rangi]

I would love to have this discussion with my grand dads.

After all this time just read your post @Chris so sorry to be so tardy.
My old fella is in Italy somewhere near the Po River.
The problem for me is that as I was growing up, with my Step Father, no one talked about him. I was in my late 20s when I found out he was a Kiwi, and in my early 30s when talking to his mates in the local RSL found out where he died, and tiz only now, in my late 70s that my older brother is starting to open up about the old fella.
However I have a couple of Photos of him so all is not lost.

 

[Chris]

After all this time just read your post @Chris so sorry to be so tardy.
My old fella is in Italy somewhere near the Po River.
The problem for me is that as I was growing up, with my Step Father, no one talked about him. I was in my late 20s when I found out he was a Kiwi, and in my early 30s when talking to his mates in the local RSL found out where he died, and tiz only now, in my late 70s that my older brother is starting to open up about the old fella.
However I have a couple of Photos of him so all is not lost.

It was the same with my Mum’s Dad mate.

No one was allowed to talk about him.

It wasn’t until my Grandmother died that my Mum could start looking into what happened. I think it was all too painful at the time so not talking about it was easier.

Our enquiries led us to Japan and a visit in 2002

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[yodeli]

" France remembers you

Just to make it precise the right translation is : French .... do remember!
Souviens-toi (verbe se souvenir : 2ème personne du singulier de l'impératif présent)

Always moving to see those memorials.....

 

[sylvester1954]

It is almost impossible for those of us living today to really get a decent understanding of the state of the German mindset after the ignominious defeat of WW1 and subsequent rebirth of nation brought about by Hitler and his murderous cronies but the reality is that a whole nation grew up believing in Hitler being there saviour.
This belief actually hardened at the end of 1944 when the allies confirmed that the defeated Germans would be divided up between East and West and that unconditional surrender was not an option. They then fought even harder to resist the allies and in their eyes to defend their homes and families from what to them was a multi national invasion force and in particular from the Russians who had only revenge in mind. .
The British and American troops could now see the end in sight and who wants to be killed when the end of the war was on the horizon so they became more and more reluctant to put themselves in harms way becoming extra cautious as time rolled on.
Our so called understanding of this period of the war is often twisted by "Hollywood" films but the truth is that Germans feared defeat and the destruction of the nation more than they feared Hitler and most believed in him beyond the final days of WW2.

 

[Jands]

Worse atrocity was at Ordour-sur-Glane, 642 villagers were burnt or shot makes you think walking around the remains of the village.

From my history discussions years ago, WW2 was really the second half of WW1.
You need to deal with the peace after a war to prevent further problems, we punished Germany and with the crash in the 30's made it easy for a Hitler to come to power.
This is something we failed to do with our recent involvements in more recent wars.

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[Ingwe]

Where we live, when in France (Nievre), the Maquis were very active and there are several memorials to combatants who lost their lives. We have been to several memorial services held annually at Crux le Ville, Sancy, Moussy etc and found it very moving. The number of old soldiers is, of course, dwindling each year. Last year there were no actual maquisards but relatives were there.
Fascinating reading about how these units operated against a far superior force, often with leaders parachuted in from England.

 

[suavecarve]

Just to make it precise the right translation is : French .... do remember!
Souviens-toi (verbe se souvenir : 2ème personne du singulier de l'impératif présent)

Always moving to see those memorials.....

Now i know you have a slight advantage here in that you might know the language un peu better than my O level french grade C in 1982 ............. but .................... I read it like this

France Remembers - You

And then emphasis is on the 2nd person singular rather than plural to indicate each individual is remembered as a person rather than the 6 or 14 persons for "Vous"

Can it be interpreted that way ?

 

[tacr2man]

A book worth reading is "behind enemy lines" by Tommy MacPherson , it's the auto biography of a highly decorated British officer ,who did a lot of stuff to assist the Maquis and other groups against the Germans

It will also appeal to the brexiteers amongst you as he ended up as Britain's comisioner at the EU and his comments were most informative

They seem to be keeping it very quiet about him being a Commissioner for UK at EU , on internet ?

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[Ingwe]

@rangitira- good story, your Padderborne experience.
Many years ago, whilst still living in South Africa, my dad (whose uncles and aunts were largely wiped out in Poland due to being Jewish) took me to a German Beerhall in Johannesburg as an experience. Well it certainly was that-we went down the stairs into the cellar and joined a bench where we were served with steins of lager. The songs and beer were flowing and then we noticed that, at the front of the hall, was a large swastika and there was a large group of men dressed in German uniforms. It turns out that it was Hitler's birthday!
We discreetly finished our beers and left.
In those days, (mid 1960s) there were still plenty of South Africans around who had supported the Nazis.