WW II in France (1 Viewer)

[maison]

Where we live when in France we are near the WW II demarcation line between occupied and Vichy France. (We are just on the occupied side).

Driving around the area I noticed the various roadside memorials to members of the Maquis shot by the Germans. My interest was piqued when I saw the following at the side of the road approaching one of our local villages.

A literal translation that " France remembers you - 20th July 1944 - in this place, assassinated by the Germans" followed by the names of the three persons shot. So far I have not been able to find out much about them. However.........

In the small hamlet of Neuilly, about 6 miles from here there is another, larger monument...

"In this place there fell, under the German bullets....." followed by fourteen names.

I believe the story to be.....

On the 12th June 1944, about a week after D Day, a contingent of the local Maquis set out, at night, to block an important road junction in order to delay the advance of German reinforcements. Unfortunately, while on route to the crossroads, one of the contingent was carrying a revolver, loaded and ready cocked, in his trouser pocket. The pistol fired, wounding him badly in the leg.

Abandoning the mission they took him to a local farmhouse where they were given shelter by the farmer, his wife, and the owner of the local Chateau. One of the Maquis set out, by bicycle, to the nearest village to get the local Doctor. He travelled to the farm, collected the injured man, and set off back to his surgery in the local village in a milk delivery truck to treat him.

Shortly afterwards German troops arrived at the farm and searched it. Finding the rest of the contingent there they pulled them out into the farmyard, together with the farmer, his wife and the Chateau owner, and unceremoniously shot them all there and then. The oldest was the farmer, aged 54 years, his wife was 49. Some of the Maquis members were only 19 years old at the time. It is not known if they were deliberately betrayed or just unlucky.

It shows just how brutal things can be when occupying forces are under pressure.

There are others around here, if anyone is interested.

 

[hilldweller]

It shows just how brutal things can be when occupying forces are under pressure.

The word Brexit leaps into my mind and I'm not making a cheap joke.

 

[Mack100]

The word Brexit leaps into my mind and I'm not making a cheap joke.

Ridiculous statement

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[hilldweller]

Ridiculous statement

Explain your reasoning.

 

[Mack100]

WW2 ended 72 years ago. Constant harking back is probably the most negative thing about the Brexit process, we need to look forwards. It's like saying that Britain is full of intolerance just because it seemed like that in the 1950's. As a society we learn, adapt and change, it's called growing up.

Modern Germany has learned, adapted and changed to be part of a modern forward looking Europe
Of course we must never ignore history but just because Germany has produced a modern industrial and wealthy nation it doesn't mean that we have to be "forever listening for the sound of approaching jackboots."

That's my reasoning.

 

[Zigisla]

20 July 1944 was also the date of the assignation attempt on Hitler. Maybe these guys had something to do with it, or like many dates, just a coincidence.

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[Mack100]

20 July 1944 was also the date of the assignation attempt on Hitler. Maybe these guys had something to do with it, or like many dates, just a coincidence.

As @maison says it's probably part of the Maquis response to the invasion. The most pressing objective was to delay the arrival of crack German units like Das Reich, the 2nd SS Panzer Division in the Normandy theatre of operations. Fortunately they were delayed by the RAF and resistance enough for the allied toehold to become a foothold. When they did arrive they were a formidable and cruel enemy.
The French population suffered heavily because of the actions against them and other German units.

 

[ambulancekidd]

WW2 ended 72 years ago. Constant harking back is probably the most negative thing about the Brexit process, we need to look forwards. It's like saying that Britain is full of intolerance just because it seemed like that in the 1950's. As a society we learn, adapt and change, it's called growing up.

Modern Germany has learned, adapted and changed to be part of a modern forward looking Europe
Of course we must never ignore history but just because Germany has produced a modern industrial and wealthy nation it doesn't mean that we have to be "forever listening for the sound of approaching jackboots."

That's my reasoning.

It didn't sound to me like the OP was judging anyone German, French or otherwise. It seems to me that he was merely pointing out how war affects an area's population & letting other forum members know in the possibility that people touring the area may be interested in the stories or they're history. After all as you touched upon in your posting, people who forget their history usually end up repeating it. That is not in anyone's best interest.

 

[Mack100]

It didn't sound to me like the OP was judging anyone German, French or otherwise. It seems to me that he was merely pointing out how war affects an area's population & letting other forum members know in the possibility that people touring the area may be interested in the stories or they're history. After all as you touched upon in your posting, people who forget their history usually end up repeating it. That is not in anyone's best interest.

I wasn't replying to @maison , I was replying to @hilldweller.
I found the the OP's post very informative and moving and you may notice my "informative" rating.

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[Zigisla]

It didn't sound to me like the OP was judging anyone German, French or otherwise. It seems to me that he was merely pointing out how war affects an area's population & letting other forum members know in the possibility that people touring the area may be interested in the stories or they're history. After all as you touched upon in your posting, people who forget their history usually end up repeating it. That is not in anyone's best interest.

I think the quote you posted was a reply to @hilldweller 's question on why @Mack100 thought his Brexit post was ridiculous.

Too late again with the fat finger typing.

 

[Zigisla]

As @maison says it's probably part of the Maquis response to the invasion. The most pressing objective was to delay the arrival of crack German units like Das Reich, the 2nd SS Panzer Division in the Normandy theatre of operations. Fortunately they were delayed by the RAF and resistance enough for the allied toehold to become a foothold. When they did arrive they were a formidable and cruel enemy.
The French population suffered heavily because of the actions against them and other German units.

Much more plausible and the 12 Jun 1944 would have had that sort of effect locally too.

 

[ambulancekidd]

I wasn't replying to @maison , I was replying to @hilldweller.
I found the the OP's post very informative and moving and you may notice my "informative" rating.

Ah I see & I do apologise, Hilldwellers is on my ignore list due to some pretty unhelpful unsavoury postings in the past, so if you go back & miss out hilldwellers posting, you'll see how it looked from my point of view. This is the first time this has happened to me, so I was a bit confused.

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[2657]

Ah I see & I do apologise, Hilldwellers is on my ignore list due to some pretty unhelpful unsavoury postings in the past, so if you go back & miss out hilldwellers posting, you'll see how it looked from my point of view. This is the first time this has happened to me, so I was a bit confused.

A good reason for not ignoring anyone perhaps, no matter how offensive you may find their posts........knowledge is power!

 

[Mack100]

Ah I see & I do apologise, Hilldwellers is on my ignore list due to some pretty unhelpful unsavoury postings in the past, so if you go back & miss out hilldwellers posting, you'll see how it looked from my point of view. This is the first time this has happened to me, so I was a bit confused.

No need to apologise, I should have quoted his post so I probably added to the confusion, it's part of the weird and wonderful world of internet forums.

 

[ambulancekidd]

No need to apologise, I should have quoted his post so I probably added to the confusion, it's part of the weird and wonderful world of internet forums.

Very true mate, I'm an old dog & still trying to learn new tricks, the trouble was that I was never any good at learning new tricks.

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[Anthea M]

Thankyou for the information we have often seen little memorials and not thought to look into the reason why it was there. Each has its own poignant story.
Orador sur Glane being the most poignant one we have been too .

 

[Mack100]

A good reason for not ignoring anyone perhaps, no matter how offensive you may find their posts........knowledge is power!

Just realised your avatar is the Caravansarai album cover, one of my favourites. I've been following the master since 1970!

Off topic apologies!

 

[laird of Dunstan]

A book worth reading is "behind enemy lines" by Tommy MacPherson , it's the auto biography of a highly decorated British officer ,who did a lot of stuff to assist the Maquis and other groups against the Germans

It will also appeal to the brexiteers amongst you as he ended up as Britain's comisioner at the EU and his comments were most informative

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[rangi]

While visiting France in the past, have occasionally popped into the German Cemeteries. Up until about 12 months ago I often thought it was a bit mean of the Allies to bury 3 or 4 sometimes 5 Germans in the same grave.
That was until someone told me that they were tank crews. Not much left of them after a brew up, they fought together, died together, bodies so badly burnt to I D, only right to bury them together I suppose

 

[hilldweller]

Modern Germany has learned, adapted and changed to be part of a modern forward looking Europe
Of course we must never ignore history but just because Germany has produced a modern industrial and wealthy nation it doesn't mean that we have to be "forever listening for the sound of approaching jackboots."

That's my reasoning.

Fair enough. I admire what the Germans have done, I love going to Germany on business and now only pleasure. You will have noted that how I praise Germany as a MH destination.

But, well there had to be a but, Germany is in charge in Europe because of their success. Behind that success is the old guard who will be masters of Europe, they have to give us a hard time to keep control and although they might be more subtle than shooting a load of Brits the intentions will be the same.

 

[hilldweller]

Hilldwellers is on my ignore list due to some pretty unhelpful unsavoury postings in the past.

Moi ?

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[The Wino]

Fair enough. I admire what the Germans have done, I love going to Germany on business and now only pleasure. You will have noted that how I praise Germany as a MH destination.

But, well there had to be a but, Germany is in charge in Europe because of their success. Behind that success is the old guard who will be masters of Europe, they have to give us a hard time to keep control and although they might be more subtle than shooting a load of Brits the intentions will be the same.

Odd really because in recent times we have been into Afghanistan Iraq and bombed other countries and the Germans seem to be quiet . Perhaps they seem to be moving on better than we are especially when you lok at how the Germans and French are both the big drivers of the EU despite their history in the 2 world wars.

 

[ambulancekidd]

Odd really because in recent times we have been into Afghanistan Iraq and bombed other countries and the Germans seem to be quiet . Perhaps they seem to be moving on better than we are especially when you lok at how the Germans and French are both the big drivers of the EU despite their history in the 2 world wars.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Well said.

 

[laird of Dunstan]

While visiting France in the past, have occasionally popped into the German Cemeteries. Up until about 12 months ago I often thought it was a bit mean of the Allies to bury 3 or 4 sometimes 5 Germans in the same grave.
That was until someone told me that they were tank crews. Not much left of them after a brew up, they fought together, died together, bodies so badly burnt to I D, only right to bury them together I suppose

Close to Bastoyne in belgium ,there is a german cemetery i did a quick head count on the crosses and came up with a rough number ,cant remember the count but when i got close to the white crosses ,they had 3 names on the front and 3 names on the back ,apparently the Americans were buiried in a cemetery accross the road from the Germans ,the yanks took exception to being so close to their enemies so they removed the GI,s and transported them home to the states
the area is known for the battle of the bulge

I did not feel anger or any negative feelings towards the german dead ,i just felt sorrow at the waste of young lifes

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[Mack100]

The Americans must have felt a particular hatred toward the Germans because the Malmedy massacre would have been so fresh in their memories.
You could hardly blame them.

 

[olley]

Ah I see & I do apologise, Hilldwellers is on my ignore list

Hilldweller ignored!!! Read all about it in your daily fun.

 

[rangi]

I did not feel anger or any negative feelings towards the german dead ,i just felt sorrow at the waste of young lifes

I'm sorry, I gave the wrong impression obviously.
I wasn't angry, I just thought it was a bit mean of the Allies,
UNTIL I was told of the reason of the German dead in that particular grave yard being so buried, one grave held 4, I realized much later that I had recognized one name without knowing why until later.

Meyer

EDIT; On every Grave, the Crosses were BLACK/DK GREY stone, and in the shape of a German Iron Cross

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[hilldweller]

The Americans must have felt a particular hatred toward the Germans because the Malmedy massacre would have been so fresh in their memories.
You could hardly blame them.

So I wonder how the Japanese felt about Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

 

[rangi]

So I wonder how the Japanese felt about Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

Hard done by because Roosvelt matched them in savagery

 

[JJ]

Oh dear, dear, dear, dear, me

JJ

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