Would you like to own a campsite? (1 Viewer)

[peter marshall]

As you may know our site is on a hillside, in order to make the pitches level, we needed to raise the soil and put in Hardstandings with a proper all weather access roadway, these things puts you into the box called Planning permission!

If its just a field, with no alterations to the land itself, go to the CC or CCC and job done, however the spin of once you get full permission is you can have who you like as guests, no membership necessary and the property itself leaps up in value, so it is well worth the extra effort at the end of the day!

Like the idea of a members only site, provided everyone chips in. Cheers Steve:thumb:

There have been two plots off land bought by the travelling people in this area, both turned into permanent camps with roads and buildings, both have been in court several times and are due to be closed soon, I know these are full time and not seasonal but both were built without panning which they new when they were set up. Pete

 

[rainbow chasers]

The idea isn't a bad one, a joint owned venture, but to build one is.

100 pitches, 100k of investment from 100 people. Would they see a return? Not in their lifetime.

There are Funsites in the UK - so little difference, other than the one owner, rather than a group. You would still have to pay to pitch if you joint owned a site as it is a buisiness, and would need to pay permanently for running costs.

Keep It Simple - Rule one.

190 pitch basic campsite, Dordogne sold 2010 - £68,000

No planning agro, no build costs, Group invest and see a gentle ROI right away.:thumb:

 

[darklord]

Another usefull post, thanks.

I have obviosly been considering all views, and would really like to thanks people for them. I have also received several pm,s with help and advice.
Some of the ideas are as follows;

As per above post, keep it simple, keep it cheap.

Definatley France, "possibly" 2 hrs from Calais.

Contact every mayor in France, to see if they have land that could be used for the venture. A country that so activley supports aires for the benefit they bring local community's, may do some of our work for us. (list of ALL French mayors received from a forum member).

Remember that we own MOTORHOMES, and tailor the site to that.

Obtain a "skills" list from members wishing to donate particular skills if they are needed.

The idea aint dead yet, sometimes ideas evolve, This may end up as a "commune" type site as first put forward, or it may end up as something else, who knows.:thumb:

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[Malcolm Bolt]

Share with 24 for 25 grand noy likely

www.parcverger.com[/url]

I looked last year. There were several run down rural houses with water and power supply and space for 3 or 4 vans available for less than than 15 grand in the Indre area. L

 

[micky drip]

Where has the FUN gone??

 

[Reallyretired]

Though quite interested in the concept, we might run into trouble where different funsters idea of an ideal site vary or are incompatible with each other. For myself I would like somewhere very quiet and peaceful, ehu, showers and toilets not needed and definitely not a bar, restaurant or 'entertainment. In fact JJs little empire sounds ideal to me. I don't mind staying on full facility sites as long as it's out of season and they're pretty empty.

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[rainbow chasers]

Though quite interested in the concept, we might run into trouble where different funsters idea of an ideal site vary or are incompatible with each other. For myself I would like somewhere very quiet and peaceful, ehu, showers and toilets not needed and definitely not a bar, restaurant or 'entertainment. In fact JJs little empire sounds ideal to me. I don't mind staying on full facility sites as long as it's out of season and they're pretty empty.

This would be a valid issue. There would need to be a concensus drawn up before purchase to ensure all are either happy, or not bothered upon which site is chosen.

After that, you would all need to be on a board of directors with an OUTSIDE manager to cover day to day running, whom had no financial interest in the site other than being paid/supplied accomodation.

 

[joner8888]

Just hard work

Not for me, It would change from being a fun hobby to hard work.
Let someone else do the work. i`ll just drive in and enjoy.
I get to see lots of different sites , not the same one day in and day out :thumb:
Cutting grass and hedges
taking money
insurance
cleaning loos
No time for touring

 

[Barclaybasher]

If there was a place to have a site I would suggest France - within an hour of Calais - to start and end journeys into Europe...............or for a weekend away

How many posts are there on here asking for somewhere close to Calais?

Interesting thread but - would it not be easier to find an existing site and see if extra space could be found for members (or anyone) ? - telling the owner what we would require

A large stopover area - some with ehu - with washing, waste emptying, low cost

I am sure an enterprising site owner would be more than happy to consider a proposition given the numbers involved

How about a poll to see how many on here would be interested in a cross-channel base? - without the hassle of building/owning/running

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[rainbow chasers]

Interesting thread but - would it not be easier to find an existing site and see if extra space could be found for members (or anyone) ? - telling the owner what we would require

A large stopover area - some with ehu - with washing, waste emptying, low cost

I am sure an enterprising site owner would be more than happy to consider a proposition given the numbers involved

How about a poll to see how many on here would be interested in a cross-channel base? - without the hassle of building/owning/running

That would be something to discuss with Jim really. Would he want/be willing to consider sites abroad? Then, Ideally it would be helpful to him, if funsters on tour were to 'introduce' the two parties. That way, we could indeed have MHF sites in Europe.

 

[cruiser]

cruiser

:thumb:great idea,lots of props. but if you can get it going count me in.

 

[darklord]

That would be something to discuss with Jim really. Would he want/be willing to consider sites abroad? Then, Ideally it would be helpful to him, if funsters on tour were to 'introduce' the two parties. That way, we could indeed have MHF sites in Europe.

Could you explain this please, I do not understand your post. Thanks.

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[missbusybusy]

Hi Darklord
you can count us in for UK or over the water,

 

[cruiser]

cruiser

whats to explain, iam willing to join in. as long as i can afford it.oh:

 

[rainbow chasers]

Could you explain this please, I do not understand your post. Thanks.

I was referring to Burstners comment on site owners allowing funsters to have a field of their own on a existing site.

As MHF have licensed 'Fun Sites' through Jim, it may be something to discuss the technicalities of him being able to have fun sites across the water. In theory, it would be possible as CC etc have them - but Jim would know the technical answers on this.

If it is possible, and Jim is willing to expand the network to europe, then what Burstner is suggesting would be possible. Not as an owned site, but as a Funster site.

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[Jonnie45]

Doubtful

Hi

I am a campsite owner in Denmark and I see a lot of negatives here - I am from the UK ( Danish wife )

1. Its so common for Brits to moan about planning regs and inspectors but do you really think its so different elsewhere? Try Denmark where campsites are very strictly regulated - its almost impossible to start a new one - its a protected and regulated industry. I run a website for people buying and selling campsites and I know the international scene very well. When you do have a lack of regulation then the supposed normal forces of supply and demand do not harmoniously adjust - instead naive people continue to try and start campsites in an already oversubscribed supply market and it no longer is financially viable to run a campsite - standards slip, investment falls and the whole industry starts to decline. Believe me there is no shortage of people who will try and start a campsite with no research and no clue as to whether there is a space in the market for them - hotel owners are much better researched but for some reason every tom dick and harry thinks its just a matter of buying a field ( ohhh if it were that simple ).

2. Electricity - Cesspit systems - Drainage - Chemical toilet disposal - Insurance ( the law tends to assume responsibility even for private clubs beyond a certain size ). See point 1. the people who moan about regulations forget that the people making them are reasonable people they just know a heck of a lot more about the implications - they see the bigger picture because they think about it a lot more than Joe average - any idea what kind of cesspit system you are taking about for 100 units? Are you planning to get on the mains sewerage? If so how far do you plan to buy your field from the nearest mains pipe of sufficient size to take 100 units? Digging costs, permissions, sewerage pumps? What is it with the Brits that they assume they better understand the situation and if only it was not for those interfering "experts" in planning....Agggghhhhhhhh No better than the common view on traffic wardens - try getting from A to B in a heavily congested city with no parking regs and see how long that takes you! If a regulation appears incorrect to you it is probably down to your lack of familiarity with the overall picture - experts do get it wrong but they get it wrong a hell of a lot less than the layman.

3. 100 "uniits" (say 200 people) running a campsite, getting on co-operatively with no infighting, nasty rumour spreading, falling out, financial accusations etc etc - you must be kidding! Try running a 150 space campsite like I do - you will quickly discover that a ship can only function with one captain and a campsite is the same. Management by committe on a campsite? I would rather put a bet on 100 monkeys eventually writing a script from Shakespeare! Just take one issue like grass cutting - my campsite takes 6 hours to mow - I try and space it out by doing a bit each day and then I try to do different parts of the campsite so no-one gets the full wack. Guess how many people tell me that my strategy is wrong - guess how many times I feel like saying - "yes and thats only because you are taking the usual selfish - my point of view approach" - local trade which is mainly weekends in low season think I should do all the noisey work in the week - they forget or rather did not know about the Dutch couple who have driven all the way up from Holland and are actually only here for Monday to Friday - I see the bigger picture and I act on more information - I do my best to do whats fair and since I am not actually camping I can make a much more neutral decision. Its only a tiny simple example but it is intended to show that in the absence of more information most people slip into a state of self-interest and do not take into account the needs of others who have a different agenda or need.

4. Most campsite owners dont camp. There is a reason for that - the phrase "busmans holiday" comes to mind. At the end of each season I do not want to see another campervan or caravan - I have seen thousands and I want to go on holiday and stay in a hotel room and not think about camping for six months. The more responsibilty you and your mates accept for the running of a campsite likely the less and less you will enjoy the camping. Running a campsite is not an extension of camping - its chalk and cheese - two completely different experiences. Right I am off now to get some work done - firstly I have to take apart a shower pay machine ( hmmm sharing hot water costs between 100 people without metering - I wonder how long the harmony will last when the fuel bill comes in ??? ) and then I am going to put on my very long thick rubber gloves to deal with a sewerage pipe that is partially blocked

 

[teddybard]

Nice Balanced View Thank You

 

[Tootles]

With UK farmland selling for around £10k a acre at the moment, it would be perfectly feasible to buy say two acres, and CL the land. Planning minimal, no buildings needed, just a water supply and a septic tank.

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[Wildman]

the septic tank requires planning permission and you would not get your investment back in your lifetime.

 

[Jim]

With UK farmland selling for around £10k a acre at the moment, it would be perfectly feasible to buy say two acres, and CL the land. Planning minimal, no buildings needed, just a water supply and a septic tank.

Feasible it might be, as long as you don't want to see a return

 

[Jonnie45]

With UK farmland selling for around £10k a acre at the moment, it would be perfectly feasible to buy say two acres, and CL the land. Planning minimal, no buildings needed, just a water supply and a septic tank.

Good luck with that !

Have you tried to get planning permission for a septic tank for 100 units?
Let me know when you have managed to persuade the council on that one, as far as I recall last time I read up on the UK position on septics it was grim for anyone planning a large one. If I recall the UK was actually trying to cut down on septic systems not encourage more. If you are not allowed septic then you need to get to mainline sewerage, then you will most likely need sewerage pumps and by implication electricity. Sewerage pumping systems are remarkably reliable once installed but even so I would allow a minimum of 20K for installation of a suitable system, digging, planning and dont forget ongoing costs. Septic systems are not cheap to install either, they require yearly maintenance, drainfields usually require high pressure flushing and you can get all kinds of issues with drainfields due to bacterial activity which can result in the surounding soil becoming less permeable ( bio-matt ) - its not actually so bad if your use is seasonal as the bio-matt will often die down when the system is not in use but you get the idea....

You would also need an extensive drainfield to deal with 100 units - you would need to have testing done on the suitability of the soil and surveys conducted on ground water and the possibility of contimination of water supply, you might well get reasonable opposition from farmers owning neighbouring fields.

A large septic is not a leave and forget option - it is a big responsibility, for anyone who needs to know more the recommended read is "The Septic System Owners Manual" by Lloyd Kahn.

All in all I would suggest enjoy the camping and let a pro worry about the 101 issues that running a campsite entails it would simply be cheaper to pay to be on a regular campsite - the alternative is become a pro - buy a campsite and then give up all hope of enjoying camping as a hobby yourself. I belong to the Danish camping union - something like 500 campsites in Denmark - I have yet to hear of an owner who wants to camp - some probably did before they took on the responsibility of running a campsite. The point I am making is simply that the responsibilities, the bureacracy (sp?), the inevitable arguments, the complexities and costs would turn this simple idyllic picture into a far more complex beast than first imagined.

By a Campsite owner - 140 spaces. 35,000 square metres.

PS: Dont forget to budget 5K for a good s/h tractor which will be necessary to pull people out of the Glastonbury quagmire that will result on wet weekends unless the field is very flat and very well drained. Train up only 3 or 4 drivers as a tractor is a lethal bit of kit. You will probably need hardcore roads and tracks, even a 3 ton tractor that is say 40 years old will not pull a large camper van out of a mud ditch unless it has hard core to stand on.
Not a show stopper but another thing people might forget in rainy Britain. My tractor sees this kind of action 4 to 5 times a year and our entire campsite has good drainage ( NO drainage will protect you from the surface water after a downpour unless the soil is exceedingly well drained - and it probably will not be due to compaction ). Bill and his Roadcruiser will not cut the mustard - you need a tractor to pull in all conditions, Bill might be able to pull himself out of mud but he will not also pull the large camper out at the same time.

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[Armytwowheels]

Hello Jonnie45 and welcome to our happy cheerful site. I can see you are going to fit in well here!

 

[Jonnie45]

Hello Jonnie45 and welcome to our happy cheerful site. I can see you are going to fit in well here!

Ok I'll shut up now

 

[Bailey58]

Given the 18 month gap in this thread and the latest comments:

:fatbuddha: to Fun campsite.

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[Ivory55]

What is the old saying about judging another persons job etc till you have walked a mile in their shoes.

 

[cruiser]

it is just as bad in Germany.a camp site owner told us he thinks hitler is still alive and in charge of campsite rules.he has just been told his toilets are to small.and that he has to make them I inch wider.that means that he has to lose a toilet.but that means he has to cut down on the amount of units he can have on his site.he cant enlarge his toilets until it goes through planning.he said if only people were smaller.they just keep getting fatter.oh:oh:

 

[Tootles]

Good luck with that !

Have you tried to get planning permission for a septic tank for 100 units?
Let me know when you have managed to persuade the council on that one, as far as I recall last time I read up on the UK position on septics it was grim for anyone planning a large one. If I recall the UK was actually trying to cut down on septic systems not encourage more. If you are not allowed septic then you need to get to mainline sewerage, then you will most likely need sewerage pumps and by implication electricity. Sewerage pumping systems are remarkably reliable once installed but even so I would allow a minimum of 20K for installation of a suitable system, digging, planning and dont forget ongoing costs. Septic systems are not cheap to install either, they require yearly maintenance, drainfields usually require high pressure flushing and you can get all kinds of issues with drainfields due to bacterial activity which can result in the surounding soil becoming less permeable ( bio-matt ) - its not actually so bad if your use is seasonal as the bio-matt will often die down when the system is not in use but you get the idea....

You would also need an extensive drainfield to deal with 100 units - you would need to have testing done on the suitability of the soil and surveys conducted on ground water and the possibility of contimination of water supply, you might well get reasonable opposition from farmers owning neighbouring fields.

A large septic is not a leave and forget option - it is a big responsibility, for anyone who needs to know more the recommended read is "The Septic System Owners Manual" by Lloyd Kahn.

All in all I would suggest enjoy the camping and let a pro worry about the 101 issues that running a campsite entails it would simply be cheaper to pay to be on a regular campsite - the alternative is become a pro - buy a campsite and then give up all hope of enjoying camping as a hobby yourself. I belong to the Danish camping union - something like 500 campsites in Denmark - I have yet to hear of an owner who wants to camp - some probably did before they took on the responsibility of running a campsite. The point I am making is simply that the responsibilities, the bureacracy (sp?), the inevitable arguments, the complexities and costs would turn this simple idyllic picture into a far more complex beast than first imagined.

By a Campsite owner - 140 spaces. 35,000 square metres.

PS: Dont forget to budget 5K for a good s/h tractor which will be necessary to pull people out of the Glastonbury quagmire that will result on wet weekends unless the field is very flat and very well drained. Train up only 3 or 4 drivers as a tractor is a lethal bit of kit. You will probably need hardcore roads and tracks, even a 3 ton tractor that is say 40 years old will not pull a large camper van out of a mud ditch unless it has hard core to stand on.
Not a show stopper but another thing people might forget in rainy Britain. My tractor sees this kind of action 4 to 5 times a year and our entire campsite has good drainage ( NO drainage will protect you from the surface water after a downpour unless the soil is exceedingly well drained - and it probably will not be due to compaction ). Bill and his Roadcruiser will not cut the mustard - you need a tractor to pull in all conditions, Bill might be able to pull himself out of mud but he will not also pull the large camper out at the same time.

I was thinking about more like ten, not 100, however, it's nice to meet someone so well versed in The Public Health Act, 1936. Also:

You need to check that your proposed tank:

doesn’t pollute surface water (eg rivers and lakes) or groundwater
is maintained as instructed by the manufacturer – you must keep records to prove this, eg receipts showing you regularly have your septic tank emptied (‘desludged’)
is only used for domestic sewage – this is typically waste from toilets, sinks and drains in a home or small business, eg a nursing home, guest house or pub

Apart from the above, and staying within the 1936 act, you can have a tank.

If you are not allowed septic then you need to get to mainline sewerage, then you will most likely need sewerage pumps and by implication electricity. Sewerage pumping systems are remarkably reliable once installed but even so I would allow a minimum of 20K for installation of a suitable system, digging, planning and dont forget ongoing costs. Septic systems are not cheap to install either, they require yearly maintenance, drainfields usually require high pressure flushing and you can get all kinds of issues with drainfields due to bacterial activity which can result in the surounding soil becoming less permeable ( bio-matt ) - its not actually so bad if your use is seasonal as the bio-matt will often die down when the system is not in use but you get the idea....

I was thinking of using gravity to take the waste water away to the road sewer, (if one exists in the local). Providing the rate of fall is in the region of 1 in 120, there would be no problems. The system your talking about is called a 'rising main', and is only used where the outlet is below the level of the main sewer.
Septic tanks do not require 'yearly maintenance', and a good, well looked after three stage tank of average capacity can contain up to nine years effluent, as the waste is broken down by micro-organisms. Drain fields are a rarity here. The usual procedure is to run the final water outlet through either a cinder, or charcoal filter, then back into the nearest watercourse.

PS: Dont forget to budget 5K for a good s/h tractor which will be necessary to pull people out of the Glastonbury quagmire that will result on wet weekends unless the field is very flat and very well drained. Train up only 3 or 4 drivers as a tractor is a lethal bit of kit. You will probably need hardcore roads and tracks, even a 3 ton tractor that is say 40 years old will not pull a large camper van out of a mud ditch unless it has hard core to stand on.
Not a show stopper but another thing people might forget in rainy Britain. My tractor sees this kind of action 4 to 5 times a year and our entire campsite has good drainage ( NO drainage will protect you from the surface water after a downpour unless the soil is exceedingly well drained - and it probably will not be due to compaction ). Bill and his Roadcruiser will not cut the mustard - you need a tractor to pull in all conditions, Bill might be able to pull himself out of mud but he will not also pull the large camper out at the same time.

We dont really tend to need tractors with a cast of thousands in the UK. Our motorhomers keep out of ditches wherever possible, as it makes things dirty. :thumb:

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[Flyingscotsman2]

.

Love to own a campsite was thinking about it still am.

 

[Tootles]

Me to. :thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

[scotjimland]

I have a feeling, no idea why, that maybe Jonnie has chosen the wrong vocation..?

No motorhome, no intention of buying one, and has a good old rant .. must be his time of the [STRIKE]month [/STRIKE]year..

Hope you feel better soon.. :thumb:

not long till summer and you are inundated with pesky campers..

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