Would you like to own a campsite? (1 Viewer)

[Terry]

Totally agree..

now let's suppose you already have a 3 - 4 acre field.. that's roughly enough space for 90 to 120 pitches at a density of 30 per acre .. the recommended maximum ..

You install access roads, hard standing, water and sewage + EHU points .. you do a lot of work yourself with friends .. but still spend £100k .. I know, not a lot but bear with me..

so.. do you 'sell' each plot for £1k which only gives you back £100k .. or let them out at £20 per night with say 30% occupancy which gives you an annual gross income of £220k .. what do you choose to do.. ?
No brainer really .. no point in selling an asset when it can reap more leasing it..

But if you don't own a field and have to buy one ---- that's where investers stand to both recoupe and make the profit
terry

 

[scotjimland]

But if you don't own a field and have to buy one ---- that's where investers stand to both recoupe and make the profit
terry

don't know how they make a profit unless they sub let .. a whole new can of worms..

ok, so the investors buy a field for £xK .. then plow in (excuse the pun) the balance left from £100k to make it into a very basic site ..

then what ? who pays for the maintenance, management/admin costs, warden's salary, water rates, council tax etc ?

Well, the plot holders do, they have to pay an annual rent to cover costs .. which may run into tens of thousands..

too many pitfalls and problems, I just can't see it working with a 100 shareholders ... and for that reason, like Geo.. I'm out ..

 

[Terry]

lots and lots of pitfalls I cannot envisage it getting off the ground BUT if it does you can keep my name down
free pitch etc
terry

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[Wildbill]

i think it is a good idea but £2000 would be more realistic that's watt i would be willing to go in for and throw in all the work you want.
You cant even get a shed for that and if all the work was done by the group of friends well the ones that are fit but i do think ther would be more wanting to be project managers than Workers.
If it's going to happen count me in i see a holiday spot not a investment it is privet individuals getting a bit of land and camping on it nothing more.
therefore not a commercial concern.
Just look at the fun worth a punt but if any one ho wants in cant or wont get ther hands dirty count them out trust me ther are alot of thinkers out ther and very little dowers
THER IS ONE THING INN LIFE IF YOU CAN'T DREAM YOU ANT GOT NOTHING KEEP DREAMING:thumb:

 

[wiljoy]

What an interesting post ! As a campsite owner Good Luck :thumb:

You wouldn't have a field nearby to set up a joint venture
with Darklord???
As his post has caused him so much excitement I think it only fare to give him his wish.
I reckon upto now he has been pledged over £30,000 by some very keen funsters.
I bet he keeps his thoughts to himseld whilst travelling again.oh:oh:
Wilf

 

[Jersey joe]

Owning a campsite

Hi ,I have been following this thread over the last 2 days with great interest.
I also believe my glass is always half full and for every problem there is a solution,with the right people and planning this idea could work.
I myself retire in 6 months time and would be willing to get involved with the right team,because when officially retired I would love carry on working especially with like minded people.
If the investment was say £2000 it would be a gamble I would be willing to take. Please log my name as future interested funster.
JJ

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[ojibway]

Hi Darklord,

for a few years we have been looking for something similar in France. We have visited a few and not come up with the ideal one yet!:Sad:

They are referred to as a "terrain de loisir" or leisure land!

They vary from a single plot of land - small to large - with no facilities/utilities to quite sophisticated plots with mobile home or chalet and electricity/water/phone. One even had tennis courts!
Some are co-owned (co-proprietaire)
We visited one near Disney Paris in the grounds of a 'chateau' with individual plots of about 500-1000 square meters. It cost about 7000eu and 750eu annual charge. You could use it 11 months. It had a mobile home on it that needed work doing but the site was wonderful with communal areas, a permanent 'guardien', etc. If you zoom in to Conde Sainte Libiaire in Google 'satellite' you'll see the site on the river.
We also looked at a plot in Villeret, the east side which you can see on Google Street, near St Dizier, outright ownership for 28000eu with a mobile home and a wooden building, elec/water/phone, beautiful, peaceful location, edge of a village, near Lac de Der but was too remote for us.
You can look 'terrains' up on www.vivastreet.com - click the area on map - click 'terrain a vendre' under immobilier. Also under 'vehicules occasion' - campingcar/caravane as some mobile homes are sold on their own, private plot.
Warning - you could spend hours and hours looking up your 'dream' plot
Mike and Annie:Cool:

 

[darklord]

Well, thanks for all the replies, especially those from current owners etc. The doom and gloom merchants ?, well, I did,nt get where I am today by listening to you lot.
The advice given, has given one very clear mandate, "Not in the UK", it also supports my own view of not in Spain, myself, If abroad, i favour Croatia as I have friends out there who did similar. and i have visited many times, BUT, all the bets indicators dictate that a site in France, within two hours of Calais perhaps would be the most sensible. This could tempt "first timers" to pop across the water, give an overnight stop for those leaving/returning to the UK, and provide a base for those taking tentative steps into europe.

Although i have started and run businesses, and currently advise a new start, the obvious path of buying a patch of land and selling off parts of it to campers, is not what I was alluding to in my first post, like most of you, i am getting ready to cease working, not start another enterprise, a kibbutz, a commune, ......maybe, but a business , no.

I know of parcel of land close to where I live that would make a great overnight stop for people travelling from and to the ports (essex, close to the river crossing) and possibly for those wanting to visit London (20,mins away), but with the large numbers of travelling community in the area, it would be best operated by the owners, the local council, so I will be contacting them with the suggestion.

As for my dream, its still alive and kicking, keep your eyes peeled for land or sites, and if nothing else, it'll give us all something to chat about on a cold damp autumn night:thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

[scotjimland]

Well, thanks for all the replies, especially those from current owners etc. The doom and gloom merchants ?, well, I did,nt get where I am today by listening to you lot.
The advice given, has given one very clear mandate, "Not in the UK", it also supports my own view of not in Spain, myself, If abroad, i favour Croatia as I have friends out there who did similar. and i have visited many times, BUT, all the bets indicators dictate that a site in France, within two hours of Calais perhaps would be the most sensible. This could tempt "first timers" to pop across the water, give an overnight stop for those leaving/returning to the UK, and provide a base for those taking tentative steps into europe.

Although i have started and run businesses, and currently advise a new start, the obvious path of buying a patch of land and selling off parts of it to campers, is not what I was alluding to in my first post, like most of you, i am getting ready to cease working, not start another enterprise, a kibbutz, a commune, ......maybe, but a business , no.

I know of parcel of land close to where I live that would make a great overnight stop for people travelling from and to the ports (essex, close to the river crossing) and possibly for those wanting to visit London (20,mins away), but with the large numbers of travelling community in the area, it would be best operated by the owners, the local council, so I will be contacting them with the suggestion.

As for my dream, its still alive and kicking, keep your eyes peeled for land or sites, and if nothing else, it'll give us all something to chat about on a cold damp autumn night:thumb::thumb::thumb:

Sorry if you though my replies were 'doom and gloom, but you did ask for opinions..

I said as I thought.. not to pour cold water but to point out some of the pitfalls.. and to quote your own good self.. "There are probably a million reasons why this couldnt be done"..

hopefully you will fulfill your dream.. despite the many obstacles.

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[JJ]

A reply from a Professional Dreamer.

I am constantly being told by Funsters that I don't live in the "Real" world.

Maybe true but I can tell anyone with a great deal of conviction that dreams do come true. Definitely. For sure.

About your campsite dream my question is WHY?

Why do you want a campsite?

Are you looking to make a living?

Are you looking for somewhere that you and some friends can stay safer and more securely than off-site camping?

I am in no position to offer advice but if I was I would say these two things at least.

Never lose your dreams... as is sung by Mick in "Ruby Tuesday"... "Lose your dreams and you will lose your mind..."

(if you are interested in the Stones... http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01p2n2g/Rolling_Stones_Crossfire_Hurricane_Part_One/ )

And don't over estimate the number of Funsters who will join in at any level in a real world project.

Being fun and helpful and friendly on an internet website is completely different from the same in real life!

And the thought of a hundred of us all getting together with a equal say on a project...

Just look at some of the threads...

To underline my point try a thread like...

"Smoking is bad for everyone's health and should be banned..."

or...

"RVs are gas guzzling, environmental disasters..." and see what happens...

JJ :Cool:

 

[ukbill]

pipe dreams or not its like no pain no gain @2k for a project that would see say 100 people co owners of their own dream what price could you put on that as for a previous post of buying doing then sellin that is a no brainer the idea would be for some to have their own pitch when they needed it and for the pitch to pay for its self when you didnt use it
a pitch occupied for 365 days of the year @ £10 per night say half to upkeep the site making a return in 1 year of £1865 for a outlay of 2k sounds better now don'tit but all hypothetical of course
or is it ?

 

[darklord]

JJ, i was just investigating the posssibility of a communally owned and run site. Lots of good advice given, lots of ideas, and NO, i am not looking to start a business. I would see such a site as a Co-op, and it worked for them.

Another of my dreams is to fulltime, that we WILL be doing when the time is right, weve been thinking about it and sort of planning it for 7 years.

Funsters that like the idea, will no doubt keep their eyes open when travelling in France this, or next year,...and we'll see what turns up:thumb:


Oh, one of the little sayings I always remembered is "People are normally too busy earning a living, to make any money".....which reiterates the "have ago, it might just be worth it" ethos

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[Jaws]

Ok, I know a lot of this has been light hearted but seriously....................

I have given this some thought and come to the conclusion I must be in a very small minority !!

If someone comes to me and says, 'stick a grand in the pot with 99 others and I will get a small business going', I am up for it
You might get a return in about 10 years or so, but equally you might get nothing more than a bit of paper saying its all gone phut

Just as long as I aint got any say in how things are run or expected to help, thats fine by be.

I have backed a few small business's over the years with a small outlay, and all have come good and paid me back with a small bonus.. but no way would I even THINK of putting money in to a venture if I had to give any time to it....

And I personally know quite a few folk who have done the same as me...

All this about it being run by 99+ people is a bit odd, perhaps the guys thinking like that have never been involved in what is, effectively, a fairly iffy investment..
But hey, I am one of those people who tends to trust those I know
A grand is a lot of money but it is not a life and death amount for a good many people on here.. I wonder what the average motorhome value is of members on here ? Proly 20k ( like I said, AVERAGE cost ) And that 20k could be gone in 60 seconds ( pun intended ) yet we have all bit the bullet and lobbed the lolly

Whoever the brass goes to it is they who are gonna be the ones at the sharp end. I certainly would not want any say in running the place ! At most a monthly informal report is fine

 

[JJ]

My experience has led me to believe that living in a van reduces your cost of living so much that "to make a living" becomes so much easier and less time consuming.

I have never been interested in "making money"... I have friends who are and who are indeed making great bags full of the stuff... and you know what?

They don't seem to enjoy life very much...

JJ :Cool:

PS. A light hearted but semi-serious point. How much easier it would be to provide camping/motorhome parking sites if the wretched things had more wheel grip. My little pocket a land is perfect for folk who like a quiet, semi wooded, rural, peaceful park up but many people don't trust their motorhomes to be able to get on and off it. (My rear wheel driven Hymer has never had a problem, rain or shine... see Penelope Pitstop's Youtube video...)

PPS. No charge to stay on QMJ...

 

[darklord]

PERSONALLY, i am totally the opposite. i have lobbed a few quid into businesses, but this would not be a business as such.
For MY part, anyone who just thought of it as an investment, would not be invited to participate, it just would,nt work. The whole idea, would be to communally own and manage a site, so any thirty bob entrepenuers who thought that they could "lob a grand in the pot" then sit back while everyone else did the work and had the headaches, is really missing the point.

IF a site was found and seen by the experts to be suitable, people would be INVITED to participate, similar to how some housing associations or mobile home parks work.
I have spoken to a friend of mine, and he assures me, that a computer programme could easily look after the bookings side of things, as long as pitch holders allocated their own needs via a password protected log in.
There may be a case for people to share a pitch, up to them, but the cost of a pitch would have to be a percentage of the cost of the site. It would be up to the initial group trying to take it forward, to find a cost effective way of attaining this, good negotiators would be needed, but the one thing they would need is enthusiasm and drive.

There are obviously loads of small things to take into account, some in favour some not, for instance, in this country, i believe you are not allowed to resell electricity for profit, in France however, that my not be the case, so the cost of an install could be recouped through a loading on electricty charging.
All things can be overcome with the right attitude, if it was a matter of investment only, I would seek finance elsewhere, and resell to interested parties on forums etc, but that is certainly not the case, fire in the belly would be as valuable as money in wallet.:thumb:

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[Jaws]

Well looks like I will not be invited then

I never look at these things as investments.. just a way to help people out and not look for a return

If I was looking for a return I would be sticking somewhat more lolly in to something ..

It is more about getting things off the ground by a lot of people chipping in a small amount to help someone who is worth helping but cannot afford a start up rather than trying to make money !

But I can see where you are coming from DL and fully understand.. Only trouble is, with the diverse geographical locations involved of potential investors / participants I would have to go along with others and say it would be difficult to sort out to say the least

 

[JJ]

Is it the idea of having a campsite or the idea of a "community" which is attractive to you, DL... or both?

JJ :Cool:

 

[darklord]

The community is the most attractive part, I have no need to "own" anything.

As I said, i have been in business, and am clued up enough to know, that if "I" were to produce a n investment oppurtunity attractive to campers, it should also be attractive to a bank, or major investor., therefore I would own a site.

Your way of life JJ, is enviable and goal for a lot of people I would think, some may like to go halfway perhaps, and have a "base" where they could park their bums, or go travelling as they pleased, but the conversations at "base" would be of places seen and yet to be seen, best routes, places to avoid, parking places, etc.........not the price of soup in waitrose, the govts latest cock up, or who killed who on eastenders.

If my wife and i had met in our twenties, we would certainly have gone on a kibbutz, chased fruit picking all over europe, and sttled down a LOT later.

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[ukbill]

i understand someone would need to run the site on a daily basis but that can be sorted like everything else there is a solution i would think the best way to run it would be like a committee say some 10% of the owners voted in to oversee the site as for profit i believe if there was any then it would be best put back into the pot to cover all ill's that may arise i also understand some would not want to ad their time to the project i don't think that should exclude them some have the time and the means to add some don't maybe its time we helped each other like the jewish and the indian communtities do the contribute to help someone in a business then when the time comes that person helps them back in return all this would need is the people to want to do it pitch fees could pay a wage to someone to run the site and for all other outlays on another note you must remember the other side to this butlins warners they all started somewhere ?

 

[ojibway]

Here's a "dream come true"!:thumb::thumb:
In , you'll have to take the translation with a bit of a smile - half way between Calais and the Somme estuary.
I've watched it grow from tentative steps to a successful place.
Plots were 50,000eu and you could build what ever you wanted.:thumb:
Trouble is, you need wings, not wheels!

 

[alfandM]

to whom is interested in owning there own Camping site,

Hi, was reading your interests in owning your own cooperative camping site, and came across this camping site for sale in the high coast region of Sweden, and thought of you guys, its a fully self contained site,comprising of, 1, full service building, showers, kitchen, washing facilities, 2, restaurant , kiosk, cafe, 3,mh, caravan pitches with hook up 4,none hook up pitches, tenting area, Children s play area, 4, Sauna, bbq area, Sandy beach, and 18 camping cottages, the asking price 1300000skr ,with todays exchange rate is routhly 115250.00 pounds, so there we have it, pictures are being sent to me as i write,cheers alf. IT could be somthing for you guys,if you need any help just let us know.

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[Steveutwg]

Funsters own site

We must be of a very similar mind. I to would like your idea but this is the UK and not very motorhome friendly. If you lived in France or Spain no problems but we have awkward planners and objectional campsite organisations who would not like competition.
I see no reason why it wouldn't work but to set up would probably be a legal minefield as our sue culture would have a great time.
If I see some land I will let you know but if you get this off the ground PM me. I think Scotland is slowly realising the worth of motorhomes so that could be a good starting point.
Wilf

Just like many of you, we have always had a dream of our own site, let me tell you it can be done! We are living proof of that and on a budget... But you only get out of it, what you put into it. Now if there's enough trades folk, willing to help, with the right machinery, diggers, rollers and plant equipment, then that's one part of the puzzle dealt with. you will need to agree a site plan to suite as many as possible, in both pitch size and layout, down to things like which side should the pitch be according to the access door of the MH. Sort all those bits out on a Google Sketch-up plan, so the whole idea is down on paper so to speak, why not even make a game of it, something like Farmville on Facebook, then everyone can add there bit and build a virtual Campsite!

Now the legal side, two routes, with or without PP, we went without, setup the whole site, we found that our local council didn't have a clue when it came to a touring site requirements, so rather than let them have their say first, we built it the way we wanted it, then got the council in to see the results, applied for retrospective planning, employing the services of a real good planning adviser, one planning meeting latter job done!

Last and by no means least, the important bit, Location, Location, Location... go buy a view, we spent years looking for the right spot, get the right site and it will work! who knows we may even want a pitch to escape from here every once in a while! lol

 

[scotjimland]

Now the legal side, two routes, with or without PP, we went without, setup the whole site, we found that our local council didn't have a clue when it came to a touring site requirements, so rather than let them have their say first, we built it the way we wanted it, then got the council in to see the results, applied for retrospective planning, employing the services of a real good planning adviser, one planning meeting latter job done!

Hi Steve
I'm puzzled.. As I understand it, please correct me if wrong, your site is 5 van CL, registered and listed with the Caravan Club .. Why did you need planning permission if you already have the exemption ?

 

[Steveutwg]

Hi Steve
I'm puzzled.. As I understand it, please correct me if wrong, your site is 5 van CL, registered and listed with the Caravan Club .. Why did you need planning permission if you already have the exemption ?

As you may know our site is on a hillside, in order to make the pitches level, we needed to raise the soil and put in Hardstandings with a proper all weather access roadway, these things puts you into the box called Planning permission!

If its just a field, with no alterations to the land itself, go to the CC or CCC and job done, however the spin of once you get full permission is you can have who you like as guests, no membership necessary and the property itself leaps up in value, so it is well worth the extra effort at the end of the day!

Like the idea of a members only site, provided everyone chips in. Cheers Steve:thumb:

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[joner8888]

Campsite and pub included---I`m off :thumb:


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[scotjimland]

Now the legal side, two routes, with or without PP, we went without, setup the whole site, we found that our local council didn't have a clue when it came to a touring site requirements, so rather than let them have their say first, we built it the way we wanted it, then got the council in to see the results, [HI]applied for retrospective planning,[/HI] employing the services of a real good planning adviser, one planning meeting latter job done!

As you may know our site is on a hillside, in order to make the pitches level, we needed to raise the soil and put in Hardstandings with a proper all weather access roadway, these things puts you into the box called Planning permission!

Thanks for your reply Steve ..

but are you seriously suggesting that the best way forward is to buy a plot of land, build a site .. then apply for retrospective planning permission ?

What if your application had been rejected.. as it was at Dale Farm .. ?

I don't know what the others think but I think this is poor advice..

 

[Trikimiki]

Own park

As a new member, I do not know any of the personalities involved in all the previous posts. Can I just make the following points.
I have been involved in the mutual market for the last 22 years (Credit Unions) finance initially is perhaps not about using all your own capital to start the franchise.
I have also started up 4 or 5 businesses either for myself or advising others.
I think you really need to ask," what am I going to offer to the market that will be totally different? improve what facilities are already there? having done that who is the market I will aim for?
Seemingly we have site owners as members, surely a basic starter would be a visit to each and see how they operate re size, facilities costs etc.
A lot of the posts were about committee size, as a chair of various organisations since I was 21 I tried never to operate with a committee of more than 5 with a max of 7, otherwise you spend most of your time discussing minutia rather than strategic goals, as it would be in this case.
I would have no problem lending time and or expertise to any mutual venture, I am just slightly confused as to why, if you do not want to make a profit, take on the project, because what you seem to be envisaging is a personal glee club where you can all meet, if that is the case, just say next Saturday lets all go to X, does it matter if you actually own it or not? Or have I missed something?

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[DP+JAY]

[QUOTE Or have I missed something?[/QUOTE]
Yes, sorry, but you most definately have.
If anyone actually runs with this I'm interested

 

[darklord]

I have purposley left this post alone for a while, to look at others views etc without getting into a major debate on it.
From the post's, and some PM's, it would seem that there is definatleya germ of an idea, and plenty of enthusiasm. as ive said before, I have been in business, and knowthat enthusiasm and energy, can be the downfall of a good idea. There are many others on here, who do, or have run bsinesses, and although they may notsupport such a scheme, I,m sure their advice would still be forthcoming.

As far as the " What are you going t offer thats different, or better etc"......bugger all mate, we are selling nothing! The collective forum members, have visited more sites and done more camping of all types, than you could ever imagine, this gives them standards, standards which they expect and use as a benchmark.
If the idea were to go ahead, the site would probably have things that you would expect, and may not have some that you would have thought would be included, a general concensus would be taken.
The main reason, for looking at things from a business point of view, is not to start one, but just to save waste, and control certain elements of operating the site.
Initially, some things may be done in stages, like electricity supply. Which could be phased (no pun intended) in gradually, although the "second fix" side of things could be in place frm the start.

The conversations should continue, we are not all going to agree. In the next few days, I,ll probably run a poll to get some direction with where people would envisage the site being located, remeber, this is all hypothetical at the moment,...but its costing nothing, so lets keep it up, ALL IDEAS WELCOME.:thumb:

 

[alfandM]

Hi, was reading your interests in owning your own cooperative camping site, and came across this camping site for sale in the high coast region of Sweden, and thought of you guys, its a fully self contained site,comprising of, 1, full service building, showers, kitchen, washing facilities, 2, restaurant , kiosk, cafe, 3,mh, caravan pitches with hook up 4,none hook up pitches, tenting area, Children s play area, 4, Sauna, bbq area, Sandy beach, and 18 camping cottages, the asking price 1300000skr ,with todays exchange rate is routhly 115250.00 pounds, so there we have it, pictures are being sent to me as i write,cheers alf. IT could be somthing for you guys,if you need any help just let us know.

HI Folks, was informed Yesterday that the site on offer was now sold to people from Belgium, so good luck on your venture, :thumb:

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