Winterising ? (1 Viewer)

Nemo

Free Member
May 31, 2013
12
9
Thetford
Funster No
26,273
MH
C class
Exp
20 on and off !
We intend to go snowboarding in French Alps which will reach temp. of around minus 25c.
Has anyone got any information on 12v trace heating or does anyone know where I maybe able to buy it ??
 
May 13, 2012
383
171
West Mids
Funster No
21,018
MH
Bailey Advance 6-2
Exp
since 2012
We intend to go snowboarding in French Alps which will reach temp. of around minus 25c.
Has anyone got any information on 12v trace heating or does anyone know where I maybe able to buy it ??

What is trace heating? Maybe a wire element in the tanks?
 

pappajohn

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 26, 2007
43,207
48,818
Dark side of the moon
Funster No
172
Exp
Since 2005
Haganap (Paul) is the man to ask about alpine insulation.

The nutter goes ski-ing in all kinds of temperatures :roflmto:

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haganap

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2007
12,711
25,974
planet earth
Funster No
974
MH
Carthago C Tourer
Exp
I'm an oldbie MH number 9
Hi Daryl,

You can fit it and run it via an inverter if you freeze up as the heat will defrost meaning that you don't actually need to run the inverter constantly.

However, TBH, I found that the adjustments I made to my pipe work by using good quality pipe lagging, then having it covered to prevent it from getting wet and holding cold water, removing the waste traps and moving some exposed pipe indoors worked better and negated the use of the heated coil pipe. Any exposed pipe work I could not cover, I used expanding foam on.

I also added a tank heater to the inside tank which has proved invaluable as was the new over front screen we purchased which covers the whole cab area much the same way as exterior blinds do. I infact left exterior blinds on as well.

There's loads more I done, but you got plenty of time. :winky:
 

jonandshell

Free Member
Dec 12, 2010
5,476
8,299
Norfolk
Funster No
14,648
MH
Not got one!
Exp
Since 2006
Hi Nemo

You are quite local to us.
If you want to meet up and discuss how the cold might affect your van, you are more than welcome.:thumb:
 

Rapide561

Free Member
Aug 5, 2007
471
167
Leeds and Lake Garda
Funster No
64
MH
Coachbuilt
Exp
8
Winter

Hi

We have 12v tank heaters in the fresh and waste tanks but it is better to leave the waste water drain tap open, so the water runs out without freezing anyway. We found the water could freeze in the drain pipe itself rather than the tank!

Russell

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Ed Excel

Free Member
Nov 27, 2012
870
547
Ribble Valley
Funster No
23,815
MH
Coach built
Exp
Started 2007
The tech details say it's designed for 12v ac, not sure it will work with 12v dc that batteries supply?

Good point, but it would only be an issue if the numbers were different eg if the heater was designed for 230V ac. That being the case you'd get about 0.1 W out of a 12W ac unit run at 12V dc. As long as the RMS value of ac voltage and the dc voltage are the same you should get the same heat output.
 

jonandshell

Free Member
Dec 12, 2010
5,476
8,299
Norfolk
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Not got one!
Exp
Since 2006
Haggers has given good advice.

You need to look carefully at preventing loss of heat before throwing money at extra heating for pipes and tanks.
The key to success in prepping a motorhome for extreme winter use is being efficient with your power management primarily. There is no point in heating every part of your water system to make up for a design which is unfit for winter use in the first place.
Your power consumption will be massive and you will spend more time worrying about battery charging than enjoying yourself on the slopes.
You don't need to worry about heating your grey tank. A good size discharge valve and bucket is the low-energy solution that little problem!
You don't mention which MH you have. The positioning of the key elements of your water system will dictate what measures, if any, you will have to take to ensure you don't freeze up.
A better method of preventing the frosting of internal components would be to direct blown-air ducting close to those components. For instance, in our Chausson, EVERY water pipe is followed by hot air ducting. Haggers has modded his van with extra ducting branches to help in this way.
There are lots of ways to supplement the manufacturer's original insulation. Silver screens are one, a complete cab cover is even better! We supplement our cab insulation screens with an internal curtain made from 2 sleeping bags. The cab area is much warmer as a result. We also place bubble-wrap between the rooflights and their blinds to help prevent heat loss.
All these measures will not only keep you warmer, but also your water system. You will also find it helpful in reducing your gas consumption.
Do you intend using aires or campsites for your adventure?
If aires, you will probably be away from EHU. You WILL need quality batteries and a supplementary battery charging system to keep your heating going. You can't rely on Solar alone, the winter sun is low and hours of daylight limited by mountains getting in the way! Gennies are popular, but you can't run it 24/7! There are other gadgets available which better utilise your engine's alternator for efficient charging.

Anyway, hope this all helps!::bigsmile:

Any other questions, fire away! There are lots of seasoned skiing Funsters about!:thumb:
 
OP
OP
N

Nemo

Free Member
May 31, 2013
12
9
Thetford
Funster No
26,273
MH
C class
Exp
20 on and off !
The tech details say it's designed for 12v ac, not sure it will work with 12v dc that batteries supply?

Dad reckons it'll work cos basically it is just a resister :Smile:



Hi Daryl,

You can fit it and run it via an inverter if you freeze up as the heat will defrost meaning that you don't actually need to run the inverter constantly.

However, TBH, I found that the adjustments I made to my pipe work by using good quality pipe lagging, then having it covered to prevent it from getting wet and holding cold water, removing the waste traps and moving some exposed pipe indoors worked better and negated the use of the heated coil pipe. Any exposed pipe work I could not cover, I used expanding foam on.

I also added a tank heater to the inside tank which has proved invaluable as was the new over front screen we purchased which covers the whole cab area much the same way as exterior blinds do. I infact left exterior blinds on as well.

There's loads more I done, but you got plenty of time. :winky:

Cheers Paul, not sure what way to go yet, think I need to climb about underNeath first before purchasing trace heating as its well expensive.
Did you box pipes in order to use expanding foam ?



Hi Nemo

You are quite local to us.
If you want to meet up and discuss how the cold might affect your van, you are more than welcome.:thumb:



We're off on hols Sunday but would love to meet and pick your brains upon my return.

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jonandshell

Free Member
Dec 12, 2010
5,476
8,299
Norfolk
Funster No
14,648
MH
Not got one!
Exp
Since 2006
Definitely PM us when you get back, we could have a night out and a drink at Little Lodge Farm at Santon Downham!::bigsmile:

Cheers!

-Jon
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
N

Nemo

Free Member
May 31, 2013
12
9
Thetford
Funster No
26,273
MH
C class
Exp
20 on and off !
Hi

We have 12v tank heaters in the fresh and waste tanks but it is better to leave the waste water drain tap open, so the water runs out without freezing anyway. We found the water could freeze in the drain pipe itself rather than the tank!

Russell

Cheers Russell, where do I purchase 12v tank heaters ?.
Think there definitely worth investing in.
 
OP
OP
N

Nemo

Free Member
May 31, 2013
12
9
Thetford
Funster No
26,273
MH
C class
Exp
20 on and off !
We are off for a week soon too!

Definitely PM us when you get back, we could have a night out and a drink at Little Lodge Farm at Santon Downham!::bigsmile:

Cheers!

-Jon

Will do, cheers guys look forward to it, have a good'n :Cool:

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OP
OP
N

Nemo

Free Member
May 31, 2013
12
9
Thetford
Funster No
26,273
MH
C class
Exp
20 on and off !
Haggers has given good advice.

You need to look carefully at preventing loss of heat before throwing money at extra heating for pipes and tanks.
The key to success in prepping a motorhome for extreme winter use is being efficient with your power management primarily. There is no point in heating every part of your water system to make up for a design which is unfit for winter use in the first place.
Your power consumption will be massive and you will spend more time worrying about battery charging than enjoying yourself on the slopes.
You don't need to worry about heating your grey tank. A good size discharge valve and bucket is the low-energy solution that little problem!
You don't mention which MH you have. The positioning of the key elements of your water system will dictate what measures, if any, you will have to take to ensure you don't freeze up.
A better method of preventing the frosting of internal components would be to direct blown-air ducting close to those components. For instance, in our Chausson, EVERY water pipe is followed by hot air ducting. Haggers has modded his van with extra ducting branches to help in this way.
There are lots of ways to supplement the manufacturer's original insulation. Silver screens are one, a complete cab cover is even better! We supplement our cab insulation screens with an internal curtain made from 2 sleeping bags. The cab area is much warmer as a result. We also place bubble-wrap between the rooflights and their blinds to help prevent heat loss.
All these measures will not only keep you warmer, but also your water system. You will also find it helpful in reducing your gas consumption.
Do you intend using aires or campsites for your adventure?
If aires, you will probably be away from EHU. You WILL need quality batteries and a supplementary battery charging system to keep your heating going. You can't rely on Solar alone, the winter sun is low and hours of daylight limited by mountains getting in the way! Gennies are popular, but you can't run it 24/7! There are other gadgets available which better utilise your engine's alternator for efficient charging.

Anyway, hope this all helps!::bigsmile:

Any other questions, fire away! There are lots of seasoned skiing Funsters about!:thumb:


Wow, I guess you guys done it before, love the bubble rap idea !!::bigsmile:

I have a 2000 w reg bessacarr on a fiat Ducato cab
 

Jaws

LIFE MEMBER
Sep 26, 2008
23,821
71,977
Thetford Norfolk
Funster No
4,189
MH
C class, Chieftain
Exp
since 2006 ( I think ! )
Good point, but it would only be an issue if the numbers were different eg if the heater was designed for 230V ac. That being the case you'd get about 0.1 W out of a 12W ac unit run at 12V dc. As long as the RMS value of ac voltage and the dc voltage are the same you should get the same heat output.

Yesssss... ok, so given the rms of 12v AC is 16.9 v it would be reasonable to expect performance in the 8w area.. quite sufficient to keep things moving :thumb:
 

jonandshell

Free Member
Dec 12, 2010
5,476
8,299
Norfolk
Funster No
14,648
MH
Not got one!
Exp
Since 2006
Wow, I guess you guys done it before, love the bubble rap idea !!::bigsmile:

I have a 2000 w reg bessacarr on a fiat Ducato cab

Although external water tanks aren't the best start, Ash has a nifty set of snow skirts which help with insulating his underslung tank on his Bessy.
I believe he uses a tank heater with a genny for battery charging and he gets on quite well when the going gets chilly!:thumb:

He might be along at some point to offer some advice.

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Jaws

LIFE MEMBER
Sep 26, 2008
23,821
71,977
Thetford Norfolk
Funster No
4,189
MH
C class, Chieftain
Exp
since 2006 ( I think ! )
Yesssss... ok, so given the rms of 12v AC is 16.9 v it would be reasonable to expect performance in the 8w area.. quite sufficient to keep things moving :thumb:

Sorry.. this is wrong.. ( I was half asleep when I posted it ! )

The peak to peak is 16.9 v IF the stated use voltage is quoted in RMS ( which it normally is )

Therefore, in theory, the results from using DC instead of AC should be the same.. Not as if there is a Q factor involved at 50 hertz :winky:
 

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