Winterising the Water System (1 Viewer)

[ramsthom]

I've been exploring some methods of blowing out the last remaining water from the water pipes on the motorhome. Looking at some blow out kits and they just seem to contain a connector with a tyre valve connected to the delivery side of the water pump and a shut off valve between the pump and water tank and at £48 seem exspensive. I've come up with an idea of fitting a tyre valve inside a half inch bsp female compression fitting and attaching it to the shower tap with the hose removed. Then pressurise it to 1 bar using tyre pump and blowing it out of the other taps. Basically it the same method as the blow out kits use. Would it need the shut off valve between the pump and water tank. It's a pressurised system and in normal use it remains pressurised with the pump off so does the pump have a non-return valve fitted and would this stop any backflow of air. I'm unable to try it as the van's in storage. Any advice welcome
I've attached a photo of the shower connector I've made up. It fits the shower at home which is the same thread.

 

[PhilandMena]

I just remove the shower head, switch the pump on, open all taps and blow down the shower hose. Works a treat.

 

[ramsthom]

The pump on mine will not run with the tank empty.

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[Phill D]

second that i do exactly that, after draining the fresh tank or you end up waterboarding yourself!!!!!

 

[nicholsong]

I activate the boiler dump valve, open all taps in the mid(hot/cold) position, disconnect the submersible pump and its internal non-return valve and pull the plug out of the bottom of the fresh tank, then let gravity do the rest.

There might be drops of water in nearly flat pipes, but even if frozen they will have plenty of room to expand into the air spaces without any damage.

Geoff

 

[Phill D]

the main problem / need for blowing through is that "most" taps these days have ceramic inserts at the tap and any even small amount of water that freezes in the tap cracks the ceramic inner.

can be replaced ... ( been there done that )) but can be avoided..

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[TinaLes]

I do the same as most in draining down, open all taps & dump valve for boiler & fresh tank, blow down taps etc, etc.
This is a pain when you use the van often in winter as you return home, have everything to empty out the van, clothes, Fridge/Freezer probably in the dark also.
Last year I did a schoolboy error though, did as above, but forgot that had fitted a trigger switch on the shower head, even though I had done the usual, I forgot to blow down the shower hose, there was of course water retained in the shower hose because of the trigger being shut off.
Result was 2 week delay in getting away in the spring, trying to get a new cartridge & back nut from Reich UK, as the shower mixer had frozen and had pushed the cartridge inside forward from the back seating, stripping the plastic back nut, which is not sold and not available anywhere as a spare part unbelievably!
The only course of action would have been to replace the entire shower mixer, but no way could I get to the back of it without destroying the inside corner moulding of the shower wall as its bonded and would be deformed once removed.
Thankfully a very nice guy at Reich UK, stripped the black plastic back nut out of a showroom demo model for me and sent to me in the post. I will be eternally grateful to him as that albeit late by two weeks let us get off on our honeymoon.
Hard lesson learnt, never forget to to blow out all water left in pipes and tap mixers, even if being stored only for one cold night/weekend.
PS: I went round every tap specialist in a 20 mile radius, searched on line etc, no one had seen let alone stocked the appropriate sized black plastic back nut for a Reich Shower Mixer, why it cant be brass is beyond me, cant just be about weight saving surely!
Les

 

[autorouter]

It's a pressurised system and in normal use it remains pressurised with the pump off so does the pump have a non-return valve fitted and would this stop any backflow of air. I'm unable to try it as the van's in storage. Any advice welcome

Pressurised systems usually have a diaphragm pump, which actually has two non-return valves at least. Your method should work just like PhilandMena's method in post #2. You could go to 1.4 bar without any problem. Truma boilers won't take any higher pressure, so be careful.

There will be some water left in the pump and the pipe leading from it. That's why it's better to tee in the schrader valve (with a shutoff tap) into a point near the pump. Also if you can't run the pump to empty it I don't know what else you can do.

 

[ramsthom]

Thanks for your replies. I think I can run the pump dry by accessing the fresh water tank via the large screw cap at the base and bridge the level probes so the pump will run or put a temporary connection from leisure battery to pump terminals. Will try it on Monday.

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[Phill D]

i also remove the glass bowl off the pump and empty the small amount that remains.... just in case ,,
call it paranoid ...

 

[Langtoftlad]

I wonder how many of the hundreds of thousands of MH owners, not having the sage advice available here, do any "winterising" at all, except maybe, emptying the water tanks ?
And what percentage end up having subsequent issues.

 

[TinaLes]

Thanks for your replies. I think I can run the pump dry by accessing the fresh water tank via the large screw cap at the base and bridge the level probes so the pump will run or put a temporary connection from leisure battery to pump terminals. Will try it on Monday.

Hi @ramsthrom, just a thought, I think if you have a submersible pump, then running dry is a no no!.
But dont take my word on that, please check it out as I have a Whale Pressurised pump, but I believe reading on the problems that Northernraider is/was having with his water system air locks, he was advised by Lenny HB not to run the submersion pump dry.
Hopefully they will be along to offer their guidance also.
Good luck
Les

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[DaveandJen]

The small amounts of water left in the pipework will not cause a problem if the hot and cold water systems have been drained down and all tapes left open. Some dealers like to prove they have drained down correctly by discounting your shower hose and leaving it the shower tray.

 

[Lenny HB]

Hi @ramsthrom, just a thought, I think if you have a submersible pump, then running dry is a no no!.
But dont take my word on that, please check it out as I have a Whale Pressurised pump, but I believe reading on the problems that Northernraider is/was having with his water system air locks, he was advised by Lenny HB not to run the submersion pump dry.
Hopefully they will be along to offer their guidance also.
Good luck
Les

Running dry for a few minutes won't hurt it's when you leave them running for hours it's a problem.

 

[ramsthom]

Hi @ramsthrom, just a thought, I think if you have a submersible pump, then running dry is a no no!.
But dont take my word on that, please check it out as I have a Whale Pressurised pump, but I believe reading on the problems that Northernraider is/was having with his water system air locks, he was advised by Lenny HB not to run the submersion pump dry.
Hopefully they will be along to offer their guidance also.
Good luck
Les

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[pelican]

i also remove the glass bowl off the pump and empty the small amount that remains.... just in case ,,
call it paranoid ...

I find it is quite easy and rewarding to store the pump in my house for the winter

 

[ramsthom]

Its not a submerged pump its next to the boiler

 

[nicholsong]

I wonder how many of the hundreds of thousands of MH owners, not having the sage advice available here, do any "winterising" at all, except maybe, emptying the water tanks ?
And what percentage end up having subsequent issues.

Stephen

As I have posted elsewhere, all we do is drain down the water system and clear out the fridge and other food.

Otherwise everything including bedding, upholstery and some clothes remain in place.

As somebody suggested putting heating on for short periods allows air to absorb moisture, which when cooled condenceses

No problem in 10 years, eight in Polish winter.

Geoff

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[Off da Grid]

pressurizing the system in our tribute with air might not work as the water filler cap even if attached is a breather for the water tank.
I open the boiler dump valve, all the taps and water drain off and run the pump till it starts to cough.
Our solar controller has a connection to turn on an AES fridge to solar when the batteries are full, our fridge isn't compatable so i've fitted a relay to this which switches on a small dehumidifier. this works perfectly to keep and damp at away.
With regard to heating in the winter i put a small oil filled radiator in on a low setting when its really cold.

 

[ramsthom]

Update on draining the water system. First the hot water, fresh water and waste tank had all been drained last week. Also all taps left open mid way. Today after closing the hot water dump valve and taps I pressurised the water system via the shower tap to 15 psi and then opened the hand basin tap and kitchen tap in turn on hot and cold. Doing this 6 times resulted in about 300 ml of extra water being expelled from the taps and pipes. I was mistaken regarding the pump not running with the fresh water tank empty. the panel showed a pump red light and I thought the pump would not run but it did therefore draining the pump. So it looked like it was worthwhile.
Many thanks for all your suggestions.

 

[Sunlovers]

We fitted the Flöe system to ours four years ago, and it works just fine keeping the system drained/dry over periods of non-use. Takes me about fifteen minutes to work through the van, but when it's done, I can rest easy knowing we've removed all the old stale water. Whichever method anyone adopts, it's a good practise to get into, as you never really know what might happen if ol' Jack Frost comes knocking hard in the night

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[xsparks]

Check out Techno's drain down device that he made.

 

[DDJC]

I wonder how many of the hundreds of thousands of MH owners, not having the sage advice available here, do any "winterising" at all, except maybe, emptying the water tanks ?
And what percentage end up having subsequent issues.

For winter, I just drain the grey and clean tanks and flip the frost drain thingy whenever the bus is immobile for more than a week. Then I leave the heating on trickle all winter. But we do wine runs for Yule, so the bus gets used several times during winter.

 

[42208]

I wonder how many of the hundreds of thousands of MH owners, not having the sage advice available here, do any "winterising" at all, except maybe, emptying the water tanks ?
And what percentage end up having subsequent issues.

I didnt do anything for the first 4 years of owning a van, following advice on here I now empty tanks between runs in the winter and leave the taps open, doesn't take long to do or refill, not sure why I do it, no problems before I did it or since I started emptying, however, I notice I have become increasingly risk adverse since I retired and so it seems a small task approx once a month over winter. I have not yet got to the stage of blowing the pipes out etc, however, I'm sure given a few more years and I guess after that draining the pump bowl and I'm sure in time only using it in the summer, eventually settling in to just reading about other people's adventures on the forum.

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[Sunlovers]

I'll admit to opening the van today just to flip the drain cock on the blue water, even though it's sat on EHU with an oil-filled radiator keeping it circa 23°C inside constantly. I checked the anti-frost valve on the Trauma and that had operated and dropped the boiler's content following last night's pretty chilly frosting. Might blow the pipes out before we depart to Europe for Christmas, but then again I might not, and possibly do it after we return in January.

 

[bigtwin]

23 degrees; that’s virtually tropical! ?

Ian

 

[PhilandMena]

Oh Please!! That's warmer than my house! I would be in a mankini at that temp.Your energy company is just going to love you. Do you get Tesco vouchers thrown in.

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[Sunlovers]

Oh Please!! That's warmer than my house! I would be in a mankini at that temp.Your energy company is just going to love you. Do you get Tesco vouchers thrown in.

Who needs a mankini when it's that cosy?

 

[Sunlovers]

Just popped outside to check the van temp .... I fibbed .... it's only sitting at 22°C at present

 

[ramsthom]

To be honest on previous motorhomes I did what most people do just drained everything down and opened the taps midway and never had a problem. On this rear lounge one the shower room and kitchen are at the front of the habitation area so the water system is routed down both sides over the rear wheel arches and along the back so the possibility of retaining water in the pipes is quite high. The connector I made up cost nothing. The half inch bsp fitting was from an old 15 mm pipe radiator valve and the tyre valve a tyre fitter supplied free. It just extra insurance if we have a long cold winter.

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