Will this change anyone’s mind on lithium batteries?

Charging Lithium batteries, like many ebike batteries may well be dangerous. But if you are referring to the lithium people are putting in their vans, they are LiFepo4 and are not a fire risk. Infact they are difficult to set on fire when you try it deliberately
 
There have unfortunately been many examples of fires with lithium batteries in housing.

What is not clear is how many of these are caused by cheap, poorly made and tested imported batteries and / or chargers, and how many have been caused by faults in the legitimate manufactured stuff. For years we've had warnings to always use proper quality charger leads and chargers even for our phones.
 
The heat a lithium battery fire generates has to felt to believe it. You can buy flame retardant charging bags, which are excellent at giving you extra time to get out. But the fire is not easy to extinguish, and never ever use water on a lithium battery fire

It worries me when people choose to charge lithium bike batteries inside their motorhome over night

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No, not at all. Lithium batteries are safe so long as they meet CE quality and have a decent BMS. Also as Jim says above LiFepo4 are more stable than the type of batteries used in your phone.
 
This will be a lithium ion battery. Any idea what from? Laptop? Drone? EBike? They're in devices as small as watches and as big as cars. There are probably more than a dozen lithium ion batteries every home. They rarely fail.
 
Guigsy said:
This will be a lithium ion battery.
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They are all lithium ion batteries. There are different chemical compounds inside them. Most types have a compound that releases oxygen when heated. If there's a fire, this contributes its own oxygen to the fire, so smothering it to prevent oxygen reaching it doesn't work. Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries don't release oxygen when heated, so they don't cause a self-sustaining fire. That is the type used in motorhomes.

The energy density of LiFePO4 batteries is not as good as other lithium ion types, so you have to balance size/weight/convenience and safety. Many batteries for house installation are LiFePO4, but many are not, including the Tesla ones.
 
Guigsy said:
This will be a lithium ion battery. Any idea what from? Laptop? Drone? EBike?
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It says a Motorbike, not many people charge a motorbike inside their houses.

LiFeP04 are probably a lot safer in a Motorhome than Lead Acid batteries.
 
autorouter said:
They are all lithium ion batteries. There are different chemical compounds inside them. Most types have a compound that releases oxygen when heated. If there's a fire, this contributes its own oxygen to the fire, so smothering it to prevent oxygen reaching it doesn't work. Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries don't release oxygen when heated, so they don't cause a self-sustaining fire. That is the type used in motorhomes.

The energy density of LiFePO4 batteries is not as good as other lithium ion types, so you have to balance size/weight/convenience and safety. Many batteries for house installation are LiFePO4, but many are not, including the Tesla ones.
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You are correct. They are all lithium ion.

This exploding battery will probably be one of the common lithium cobalt oxide chemistries that you see in most devices. It can be very explodey if physically damaged, over discharged, over charged or just badly made.

Lithium iron phosphate is slightly less energy dense. But more importantly, it doesn't release its own oxygen when it decomposes. So doesn't self combust.

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This is why I NEVER leave anything on charge when I'm not there, and not overnight when I am.
 
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If I gave you a list of causes of fires in the household that I was required to submit to the Home Office on a regular basis whilst serving in the Fire Service you would up sticks and move into an open field and live in a Tent...but make sure the tent was man made fibres, with wooden poles, pitched on low ground away from any overhead cabling, underground pipework conveying flammable substances and not prone to lightning strikes. See you there... I'm in the next field...🤔👍🇪🇦😃
 
jumar said:
If I gave you a list of causes of fires in the household that I was required to submit to the Home Office on a regular basis whilst serving in the Fire Service you would up sticks and move into an open field and live in a Tent...but make sure the tent was man made fibres, with wooden poles, pitched on low ground away from any overhead cabling, underground pipework conveying flammable substances and not prone to lightning strikes. See you there... I'm in the next field...🤔👍🇪🇦😃
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Here here.... someone with a sensible head on their shoulders 👍👍👍

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Isn't the main problem the battery chargers and batteries are not matched?

I bought two batteries with our bicycle conversions that came with chargers in the box, keep an eye on them, they are air cooled and nothing gets hot.
 
LesW said:
Isn't the main problem the battery chargers and batteries are not matched?

I bought two batteries with our bicycle conversions that came with chargers in the box, keep an eye on them, they are air cooled and nothing gets hot.
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It's a combination of batteries being pushed too hard (because you can put a cheaper battery in for the same performance by ignoring safety margins), cheap batteries not having safety features and cheap chargers having poor detection logic.

If you buy a quality product, it shouldn't happen... (Cough. 2016, Samsung Note 7.)
 
The examples shown above are why I would urge people to take care when buying Jackery, Ecoflow and Bluetti type power packs. I made sure I got one with a LiFePO4 battery, not all of them have LiFePO4 and I wouldn’t want to share my home with the other types.
 
2013, the second year of service for the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, a widebody jet airliner, several aircraft suffered from electrical system problems stemming from its lithium-ion batteries. Incidents included an electrical fire aboard an All Nippon Airways 787 and a similar fire found by maintenance workers on a parked Japan Airlines 787 at Boston's Logan International Airport. The United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) ordered a review into the design and manufacture of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, followed by a full grounding of the entire Boeing 787 fleet, the first such grounding since that of the McDonnell Douglas DC-10 in 1979
 
Don’t blame Lithium, it is not the problem. The blame lies with the other chemicals they use alongside it in some types of battery.

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So far all the bad quotes on this thread are for "Lithium Ion" battery's...
Not "LifePO4".... Totally differant beasts..
 
poppycamper said:
So far all the bad quotes on this thread are for "Lithium Ion" battery's...
Not "LifePO4".... Totally differant beasts..
Click to expand...
All Lithium batteries are Lithium ion batteries, including LiFePO4. The movement of ions is what makes all batteries work, even lead acid batteries move ions about. In Lithium batteries it is Lithium ions that are moved. What makes LiFePO4 a totally different (safer) beast is what the Lithium is combined with. Lithium combined with Iron Phosphate is much safer than Lithium combined with Manganese Oxide or Cobalt Oxide.
 

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