Will This Be The Demise Of Diesel Engines

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It could be the demise of older diesel engines in the larger cities - and not before time. It is cities where the pollution problem lies.
 
I was in Rome last week and when walking about sightseeing the fumes from the scooters that they all seem to have were affecting my breathing :confused:
 
I assume it will mean Low Emissions Zones in all UK cities.
I also wonder about the future of diesel engine cars. The manufacturers have to fit Diesel Particulate Filters to comply with current emissions and I had heard quite a few horror stories recently about owners of cars approx. 4 - 5 years old where the DPF has failed and it has been a very expensive repair. Also I am not sure if the DPF will reduce the NO2 emissions which seems to be the main issue.
 
So UK road haulage companies will be exempt (or just pass the costs on) for any new clean air baloney.

EU lorries won't bother.

Taxis made in 1986 will still be driving around the towns and cities.

and if your motorhome isn't less than six month old you'll be paying a significant amount of money to drive into the zones.


I'm pretty sure I will want to live somewhere else.

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Sounds like a lead in to more 'GREEN' taxes to me
Don,t get rid of it, Tax it !!!
Lovely Jubbly
Mr Osborne says thank you very much
 
More RIP OFF. Time for a Change. Revolution get rid of Greenies. Or we will all be back in Mud huts, Rickets, Diphtheria. Turn the clock back to the "good old days". We all walk and the "gentry" (and politicians) still get to ride!. Bar Stewards!!.

Pete
 
DevonBeekeeper said:
It could be the demise of older diesel engines in the larger cities - and not before time. It is cities where the pollution problem lies.
Click to expand...


The issue with that is, The older Motor-homes are owned by those who can least afford to "upgrade". Unless of course the "government" are going to replace them for free??

In my dreams!!

Pete

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What I don't understand is why the emissions from diesel engines is a fairly recent topic. I remember approx. 35 years ago doing some contract work at MIRA (Motor Industry Research Association) and it was known then about the nitrous oxide pollutants. You would have thought that by now they could have developed a reliable filtering system to overcome the problem.
 
I'm well confused.. not hard I know...We were all encouraged to go down the diesel route...manufacturers produce an effective high speed diesel engine and when enough are sold the price of diesel overtakes petrol...
Engines are now so efficient that the new pollutants are the nitrogen oxides which you wouldn't get unless there was effecient clean combustion. We go down the route of dpf and egr valves to reduce these...don't know where it will end up... There will always be something else and it will be as always us who foot the bill....
I've just deleted the egr function on my van....might have to consider reinstating it to help save the planet :)
O well rant over
Ta andy
 
That's it, I've had it!! Encouraged to buy and use Diesel, now ostracized for doing so. I'm going to buy an electric motorhome provided I can find a good sized power cable...:wasntme: Perhaps we can run them like trolley buses! ::bigsmile:
 
Sidney said:
So UK road haulage companies will be exempt (or just pass the costs on) for any new clean air baloney.

EU lorries won't bother.

Taxis made in 1986 will still be driving around the towns and cities.

and if your motorhome isn't less than six month old you'll be paying a significant amount of money to drive into the zones.


I'm pretty sure I will want to live somewhere else.
Click to expand...

Lorries are already being upgraded. This is the whole point of the Euro Emissions Standards.
Trucks already have to use something called AdBlue to reduce NOx emissions. Truck manufacturers are already adding more and more technology to trucks to reduce emissions.

Have a look at the Difference between Euro I and Euro VI. In 1992 when Euro I came in the limit came down from not measured to 8g/kWh. By 2013 when Euro VI came out this had been reduced to 0.4g/kWh. That is a massive reduction. This only applies to Lorries/Trucks. The limits for smaller vehicles are even lower. But when you consider there are only about 474,000 Trucks on the road and the lifespan of trucks is limited. Whereas panel van's used by couriers, small businesses etc and taxi's are run for many more years and are more likely to be doing short run stop and start.

EU lorries are no differenent to our lorries. In fact even Australia has standardised on the Euro Emissions. The truck manufacturers pretty much produce the same truck for all markets.

I have just done the Drivers CPC course. 1 whole week in a classroom of which almost a whole day was spent on things like the above and the technology involved for safety and environmental protection. I believe from what I learned on that course, further research and manufacturers data that the Haulage industry is actually leading from the front on this issue.
 
London emissions tighten up next September. Think I'll wait for euro 6 until I order new van!:(

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Borderland said:
What I don't understand is why the emissions from diesel engines is a fairly recent topic. I remember approx. 35 years ago doing some contract work at MIRA (Motor Industry Research Association) and it was known then about the nitrous oxide pollutants. You would have thought that by now they could have developed a reliable filtering system to overcome the problem.
Click to expand...
They have. See my previous post regarding AdBlue/SCR

 
Here in Norfolk there is a firm that runs immaculate old erf trucks with the twin split gearboxes. How much pollution and energy would be required to scrap them plus the same to make a new truck against a little more pollution from continuing to use them ?
 
DevonBeekeeper said:
It could be the demise of older diesel engines in the larger cities - and not before time. It is cities where the pollution problem lies.
Click to expand...

Not necesarily as the London Emission Zone classifies any motorhome under 2,5Tonnes or any van under 1,205Tonnes & diesel as compliant .:)(y):LOL: I have a nice piece of paper Boris has sent me stating that I am registered, compliant
& " Euro 5 " :LOL::LOL:
You can't make this stuff up.:giggle:
PeteH said:
The issue with that is, The older Motor-homes are owned by those who can least afford to "upgrade". Unless of course the "government" are going to replace them for free??

In my dreams!!

Pete
Click to expand...
No that's not going to happen.:LOL:
In my case I wanted one that A) was diesel B) old type & capable of running on anything, just like a diesel was invented for ( & it can do if required), C) gave good mpg , which it does.

All the new type crdi's & I've got one & had many others, are all ok until there's a shortage of fuel, Vladimir kicks off & there's a shortage of refined stuff.
Even bio-diesel blocks the fuel filters in no time & that is if the manufacturere specifically states that the vehicle can run on it .Many used to specifically exclude including Ford;Kia; Hyundai.
 
Gromett said:
Lorries are already being upgraded. This is the whole point of the Euro Emissions Standards.
Trucks already have to use something called AdBlue to reduce NOx emissions. Truck manufacturers are already adding more and more technology to trucks to reduce emissions.

Have a look at the Difference between Euro I and Euro VI. In 1992 when Euro I came in the limit came down from not measured to 8g/kWh. By 2013 when Euro VI came out this had been reduced to 0.4g/kWh. That is a massive reduction. This only applies to Lorries/Trucks. The limits for smaller vehicles are even lower. But when you consider there are only about 474,000 Trucks on the road and the lifespan of trucks is limited. Whereas panel van's used by couriers, small businesses etc and taxi's are run for many more years and are more likely to be doing short run stop and start.

EU lorries are no differenent to our lorries. In fact even Australia has standardised on the Euro Emissions. The truck manufacturers pretty much produce the same truck for all markets.

I have just done the Drivers CPC course. 1 whole week in a classroom of which almost a whole day was spent on things like the above and the technology involved for safety and environmental protection. I believe from what I learned on that course, further research and manufacturers data that the Haulage industry is actually leading from the front on this issue.
Click to expand...

& off the record they will tell you they have led ; there is no more; there is no where to go after Euro 6; the have reached the end of the line.
The diesel engine wasn't invented to run like this it was invented to run without needing an outside source to fire it , relying on compression only. It was designed to run on anything remotely usable as fuel.
Do they fit crdi & ad-Blue; & all the other tat in battlefield equipment? NO , as it wouldn't last 5 minutes & that is what you need to keep at the back of your mind.

Many traders & vehicle recovery people on a UK forum I use, when faced with finding that there vehicles would be non-compliant, ripped the diesel engines out & fitted huge petrol engines. Now they are compliant !! :LOL:
 
Borderland said:
I assume it will mean Low Emissions Zones in all UK cities.
I also wonder about the future of diesel engine cars. The manufacturers have to fit Diesel Particulate Filters to comply with current emissions and I had heard quite a few horror stories recently about owners of cars approx. 4 - 5 years old where the DPF has failed and it has been a very expensive repair. Also I am not sure if the DPF will reduce the NO2 emissions which seems to be the main issue.
Click to expand...

A few years back the mechanic told me that the "particulate filter" had gone on my saab, anyhow I heard filter and thought cant be that much can it ?
The guy was a mate and he tracked one down for about 300 quid ,I said that's bleep bleep expensive,his reply was that the saab dealer wanted 800 quid for it

Diesel engines are so complex now , I can just about figure out where to put the water for my windscreens

They do have a very valid point about polution

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This Nitrous Oxide issue is cities is a serious problem causing real health issues for children and adults living and walking near the main roads. My grandchildren go to school every day in East London on their bikes and sometimes it's really noticeable how unpleasant the air is near the main road crossed on route.
The diesel boom was caused by the desire to reduce CO2 emissions. The motor industry has made enormous gains in diesel technology and now needs to repeat the trick with petrol engines. It's already started with a whole raft of small 3 cylinder turbo or super charged engines being used in the new hatchbacks.
Busses need to be hybrid or hydrogen as they are massive polluters. Taxis need a much shorter life cycle and move to LPG.
Trucks are Euro 6 with ad blue, I did read that some cars are now using the ad blue additive.
So stuff is happening but it will take time to adapt the whole UK vehicle fleet,especially when some MH's have a 20 year life span!
 
PeteH said:
The issue with that is, The older Motor-homes are owned by those who can least afford to "upgrade". Unless of course the "government" are going to replace them for free??

In my dreams!!

Pete
Click to expand...
Well they are giving our money away so that people can buy their own homes, so why not the same for motorhomes
 
The erf I was talking about are around 1976/7 era , immaculate though.
 
laird of Dunstan said:
A few years back the mechanic told me that the "particulate filter" had gone on my saab, anyhow I heard filter and thought cant be that much can it ?
The guy was a mate and he tracked one down for about 300 quid ,I said that's bleep bleep expensive,his reply was that the saab dealer wanted 800 quid for it

Diesel engines are so complex now , I can just about figure out where to put the water for my windscreens

They do have a very valid point about polution
Click to expand...

The particulate filters seem to be a weak point no matter which vehicle they are fitted to. As mentioned previously I have heard of several horror storied on the price of replacements and searching the internet gives many accounts of these failures. The fact that it tends to be cars 4 - 5 years old and out of warranty means that manufacturers probably won't put any effort into improving them. If you have to pay for a replacement filter then that is all the savings gone, and possibly more, from the improved fuel economy compared with petrol engine.
 
All very interesting but I wonder what is actually discussed in these meetings by whatever committee it is with an active control over our environment.

ie parking in cities and towns, why do they have 1 hr parking no return in 1 hour, all that does is make all the drivers swap parking specs every hour, resulting in more poisonous emissions being released plus the added congestion caused by the increase in traffic.

As for the diesel pollution, I wonder how much pollution from a city full of diesel vehicles compares with the fallout from the steady stream of jet aircraft taking off and landing?
Have you ever looked at your cars paintwork after it has been parked on the airports carpark for 2 weeks?

Surely the way forward is Hydrogen fuel cell, waste product H2o.
 
I think the petrol versus diesel debate has one fact at its base. For every barrel of crude oil there is so much petrol and so much diesel. In my opinion all that is done is to tweak taxation such that the petrol and diesel is in the same ratio as it is produced.

Yes, there is a need to burn both fuels in as clean a manner as possible, but there is always going to be a need to use both.
 
PeteH said:
The issue with that is, The older Motor-homes are owned by those who can least afford to "upgrade". Unless of course the "government" are going to replace them for free??

In my dreams!!

Pete
Click to expand...
Old engines will be fine out in the country. It is big cities where there is a problem - folk are literally dying from the pollution apparently. Providing you don't want to take you MH into places like London you won't be troubled by any legislation. Different matter if you live in one of these cities of course!
 
Vote UKIP then move to the countryside!

Problem solved!
 
DevonBeekeeper said:
Old engines will be fine out in the country. It is big cities where there is a problem - folk are literally dying from the pollution apparently. Providing you don't want to take you MH into places like London you won't be troubled by any legislation. Different matter if you live in one of these cities of course!
Click to expand...
I just hope that the government will not use the legislation as an excuse to increase duty rates on diesel which will hit everyone.

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