Will Spain ban us next??? (1 Viewer)

[DelMar]

If we don’t give people guidance, it becomes nothing but a free for all. Government doesn’t seem to be leading. We are creeping back to where we were last year. Dropping mask wearing in public places is a contributing factor and a doctor did say this on tv today.

As individuals we are also to blame for not using common sense, in public places masks and distance are important. Do I like wearing a mask, NO, but I DO, that does not make me holier than thou. Neither does it make people just want to exist (a patronising statement) who isolate because of other medical reasons and don’t wish to die from Covid. A good reason I think. Everyone just wants to get back to a normal life. Other countries, once behind us, are now ahead of us, with less cases. They wear masks in public places also have COVID passes and now ahead of us with vaccinations.

 

[Lizi]

Suavecare, where does this data come from? I want to send it on and monitor in future. This is exactly what we need to be focussing on instead of just the total number of positive cases.

 

[VXman]

If we don’t give people guidance, it becomes nothing but a free for all.

Agreed. I commented on a discussion on our local Facebook group about the number of people not wearing masks in comparison to France and Spain and one guy responded with 'Why would you, it's not the law'.

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[jumartoo]

Mask wearing in Spain was dropped some months ago, except in inside spaces, including restaurants until, and whilst you're seated.

There are more Spanish still wearing masks outdoors than the ones that aren't.

They seem to be more aware of their (and others) health, and are happy to continue to live their lives with very little stress (from wearing another piece of clothing,.

 

[glenn2926]

If we don’t give people guidance, it becomes nothing but a free for all. Government doesn’t seem to be leading. We are creeping back to where we were last year. Dropping mask wearing in public places is a contributing factor and a doctor did say this on tv today.

As individuals we are also to blame for not using common sense, in public places masks and distance are important. Do I like wearing a mask, NO, but I DO, that does not make me holier than thou. Neither does it make people just want to exist (a patronising statement) who isolate because of other medical reasons and don’t wish to die from Covid. A good reason I think. Everyone just wants to get back to a normal life. Other countries, once behind us, are now ahead of us, with less cases. They wear masks in public places also have COVID passes and now ahead of us with vaccinations.

What do you find patronising re the comment some just want to exist? Some people are quite happy to stay home not going anywhere doing nothing.
It’s not for me but just because some are happy to stay at home doesn’t mean they’re wrong to do that.
I know a couple that are happy doing just this. They never eat out, never go to the pub, when they’re away in their motorhome they take all their own food and drink with them. They just go to organised events but don’t mix with others.
Why you think me having an awareness of their preferred lifestyle is patronising I do not know but like I said we’re all different.

 

[VXman]

That is going to be the case for the rest of eternity.
Some want to live their lives. Others are happy to just exist. Some want to hide away. Others want to have rules imposed on them.
We’re all different.
You want to socially distance? Wear a mask? Stay at home? Go for it. I don’t care what you want to do. When you start dictating what I or others do though, that’s a different story.

Problem is that you not wearing a mask just because you don't want to can have a detrimental effect on someone elses health. Really mask wearing is pointless unless a vast majority abide by it.

Do you take the same attitude to drink driving? Do you object to the government 'dictating' how much alcohol you are allowed before you go out possibly kill someone? Of course there are many other laws I could use as similar examples.

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[IRHP]

Absolutely, were testing so much more than any other European country so bound to find a higher percentage of positive cases.

Data on testing for COVID-19 by week and country

Data in multiple file formats with information about testing volume for COVID-19, sorted by week and country, and updated on a weekly basis.

www.ecdc.europa.eu

Don't you mean higher number of positive cases? Percentage will be near enough the same no matter how many you test.

 

[AnnieB]

Suavecare, where does this data come from? I want to send it on and monitor in future. This is exactly what we need to be focussing on instead of just the total number of positive cases.

I think it’s this site -

Coronavirus Update (Live): 139,692,704 Cases and 2,999,553 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

 

[DelMar]

Is this based on one couple you mentioned. How many are others? 10, 100. 1000. My guess is, you don’t really know. Unless of course you have done a survey. I have in the passed been existing, not by choice but by medical advice, I don’t wish to do that again. That is what makes your statement patronising.

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[glenn2926]

Problem is that you not wearing a mask just because you don't want to can have a detrimental effect on someone elses health. Really mask wearing is pointless unless a vast majority abide by it.

Do you take the same attitude to drink driving? Do you object to the government 'dictating' how much alcohol you are allowed before you go out possibly kill someone? Of course there are many other laws I could use as similar examples.

Hardly the same, if people don’t like me not wearing a mask then stay a long way away from me.
Some people see it another way, last week we went to the cinema. There was one old couple wearing masks, nobody else wearing them. The mask wearers were given a very wide berth as wearing masks protects others from whatever the mask wearer has. Staying well away from them protects the rest of us from whatever they have. Hence the large amount of space around them.

 

[gus-lopez]

Mask wearing in Spain was dropped some months ago, except in inside spaces, including restaurants until, AMD whilst you're seated.

There are more Spanish still wearing masks outdoors than the ones that aren't.

They seem to be more aware of their (and others) health, and are happy to continue to live their lives with very little stress (from wearing another piece of clothing,.

It is only dropped if you can maintain 1,5m distance from any other person. Which ,in reality ,when out in town is impossible so easier to wear one than get a fine.

 

[spikehcm681]

We're in Portugal (population 10 million) cases are averaging just under 700 per day (say 4,500 if compared to the UK) and deaths are averaging 6 per day (40 in comparison).

Portugal has double vaccinated 85.7% compared with the UK's 67.7 % (from the FT)

Many people are still wearing masks in shops (although it's only mandatory for those working in public-facing situations to do so) - they wear them with both loops round their bare arm (admittedly the temp was 32C where we've been for the last few days) - not something you could do in the UK at the moment but it wasn't something I saw much of during the summer in the UK.
So we feel reasonably safe but are being careful (mask wearing/hand washing/social distancing and staying out of small confined spaces.)

It's made easier in that every day has been sunny since set off 3 weeks ago - and the forecast looks good for the next 2 weeks.

I wonder if I could stay longer than 90 days by appealing to the European Court of Justice - saying that it was against my Human Rights to send me to a country where the chances of getting Covid were so much higher?

I'm assuming that the relative situations in the UK and Portugal remain roughly the same until mid - December. That may not be the case and we may be desperate to get home! I'm also assuming that the Portuguese authorities would see that there was no logic in expelling people who had fulfilled all the requirements to get into the country and hadn't caught it in the meantime (fingers crossed that we don't!)

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[Chris]

I think the government has adopted a “ let it rip” attitude to dealing with the virus in the hope that we will get this herd immunity first mentioned in March 2020 without killing the economy more than we already have. If they can roll out the boosters, keep the number going into hospital relatively low and confine the infection to the young unvaccinated it might work.

 

[spikehcm681]

Link to article from the British Medical Journal :-

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/09/28/on-the-psychology-and-politics-of-wearing-masks/

 

[spitfire]

Hardly the same, if people don’t like me not wearing a mask then stay a long way away from me.
Some people see it another way, last week we went to the cinema. There was one old couple wearing masks, nobody else wearing them. The mask wearers were given a very wide berth as wearing masks protects others from whatever the mask wearer has. Staying well away from them protects the rest of us from whatever they have. Hence the large amount of space around them.

We went to the cinema yesterday and mask wearing is obligatory. There are signs and screened before the film but guess what the three Brits ( English actually ) a few seats along from us did not . I said to the nearest lady it was obligated and she put it on but lowered it when film started . The other two failed to do so .
Given they were guests in another country I think it would be polite to adhere to what was asked of them .

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[glenn2926]

We went to the cinema yesterday and mask wearing is obligatory. There are signs and screened before the film but guess what the three Brits ( English actually ) a few seats along from us did not . I said to the nearest lady it was obligated and she put it on but lowered it when film started . The other two failed to do so .
Given they were guests in another country I think it would be polite to adhere to what was asked of them .

If they’re the rules they should follow them. As an aside, have they stopped selling ice creams and drinks etc as one cannot eat or drink them? Here they’re selling them but masks not required. There are barriers to keep people apart whilst purchasing them and screens between staff and customers.

 

[suavecarve]

Suavecare, where does this data come from? I want to send it on and monitor in future. This is exactly what we need to be focussing on instead of just the total number of positive cases.

All data I produce comes from either the NHS, worldometers, ONS, or data.gov sites
If I quote something I tend to put the link up if it is not one of those sites and I also try my hardest to double check the information.

You obviously werent around when each day for about 8 months I updated the daily figures with percentage increases and fortnightly movements for all the major possible travelling to countries we could possibly get to, as well as monitoring the 2 o clock and 4 o clock figures for UK then just disecting the information to work out what it was possible to work out. I WAS A GEEK !
I gave up on it when Hungary were having 20 cases a day and remained as a Red country as the stats on infections then meant les than diddly squat to HMG, so not worth monitoring in my view

AnnieB has linked you worldometers then ensure you look at the weekly trends and just look at Europe for comparative figures and have a good glance round it. If you hit a country then you will be able to see at the bottom of the new page "Source" where in France' case I think there are 2 sources and Spain has one. Here you can go really in depth and look into the country like we look into UK (Their equivalent of ours) which is here
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ and this is where you can look into the data by clicking data and also using the countries (Scotland wales ireland England)

But if you really want to start looking at figures at 1400 hrs every day go to <Broken link removed> and download the daily figures which will tell you age where underlying conditions sex which hospital and what date the deaths occurred.
They also do a weekly report on called teh weekly file where you can start looking at the course of deaths and how things are fluid and the changes that occur for ENGLAND only

Then the ONS figures come out so I might monitor them if there is something half interesting but I have given up pretty much most of it and only became active a couple of days ago on CV matters as saw some figures or statements that in my view needed challenging as reassurance gap was not realistic. (The gap between what people think is happening and what is actually happening causing fear) (In my opinion only) so I put some figures up there to let people make their own minds up.

Hope that helps

 

[suavecarve]

We're in Portugal (population 10 million) cases are averaging just under 700 per day (say 4,500 if compared to the UK) and deaths are averaging 6 per day (40 in comparison).

Portugal has double vaccinated 85.7% compared with the UK's 67.7 % (from the FT)

Many people are still wearing masks in shops (although it's only mandatory for those working in public-facing situations to do so) - they wear them with both loops round their bare arm (admittedly the temp was 32C where we've been for the last few days) - not something you could do in the UK at the moment but it wasn't something I saw much of during the summer in the UK.
So we feel reasonably safe but are being careful (mask wearing/hand washing/social distancing and staying out of small confined spaces.)

It's made easier in that every day has been sunny since set off 3 weeks ago - and the forecast looks good for the next 2 weeks.

I wonder if I could stay longer than 90 days by appealing to the European Court of Justice - saying that it was against my Human Rights to send me to a country where the chances of getting Covid were so much higher?

I'm assuming that the relative situations in the UK and Portugal remain roughly the same until mid - December. That may not be the case and we may be desperate to get home! I'm also assuming that the Portuguese authorities would see that there was no logic in expelling people who had fulfilled all the requirements to get into the country and hadn't caught it in the meantime (fingers crossed that we don't!)

I was surprised by this (portugal having more than us vaccinated)
But they overtook us in August

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[spitfire]

If they’re the rules they should follow them. As an aside, have they stopped selling ice creams and drinks etc as one cannot eat or drink them? Here they’re selling them but masks not required. There are barriers to keep people apart whilst purchasing them and screens between staff and customers.

Yes no refreshments

 

[Chris]

We went to the cinema yesterday and mask wearing is obligatory. There are signs and screened before the film but guess what the three Brits ( English actually ) a few seats along from us did not . I said to the nearest lady it was obligated and she put it on but lowered it when film started . The other two failed to do so .
Given they were guests in another country I think it would be polite to adhere to what was asked of them .

I agree completely but in a confined space like that I suspect masks didn’t make a great deal or indeed any difference

Its rude though not to follow the rules where you are.

 

[glenn2926]

I agree completely but in a confined space like that I suspect masks didn’t make a great deal or indeed any difference

Its rude though not to follow the rules where you are.

It could be the cinema like the one we visited here has spacing between groups. Can’t remember the amount of seats between but it was a number.

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[gus-lopez]

It could be the cinema like the one we visited here has spacing between groups. Can’t remember the amount of seats between but it was a number.

everywhere is like that here. every other seat in most places, surgeries, dentsist,etc, except restaurants/bars is taped off. In toilets every other urinal & cubicle is taped off/covered/locked shut.

 

[spitfire]

It could be the cinema like the one we visited here has spacing between groups. Can’t remember the amount of seats between but it was a number.

There was only 10 of us but indoors masques are obligatory and couldn’t be missed as the information was full screen and if you don’t read french i am sure the picture was sufficient. Strangely they were UK motorhomers. We saw them returning to their UK registered van in the car park

 

[spitfire]

everywhere is like that here. every other seat in most places, surgeries, dentsist,etc, except restaurants/bars is taped off. In toilets every other urinal & cubicle is taped off/covered/locked shut.

Same here

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[Chris]

It could be the cinema like the one we visited here has spacing between groups. Can’t remember the amount of seats between but it was a number.

Yes, but it’s still an enclosed space.

 

[Marty Gilly and Pup]

everywhere is like that here. every other seat in most places, surgeries, dentsist,etc, except restaurants/bars is taped off. In toilets every other urinal & cubicle is taped off/covered/locked shut.

To balance this, I haven’t seen any toilets taped off in my two weeks in Spain. People seem happy and obliging to wear masks in shops and other indoor areas (bars and restaurants excepted.

 

[spikehcm681]

Yes, but it’s still an enclosed space.

Part of the problem in the "to wear - or not to wear" debate was the initial view - emanating from the WHO and others - that the main route of transmission was through droplets - not through smaller airborne particles which can remain in the air and drift. This scientific advice only changed some 15 months after the start of the pandemic (SARS-CoV-2 in the USA, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (May 7, 2021), and the WHO (April 30, 2021).

So, for example, the 4 UK Governments were initially stressing "hands, face space (2 metres)". I recall seeing information that the disease was not an arerosol - i.e. airborne.

It's no wonder then that some people are confused. It's also true to say that the type of mask that most of us wear offers limited protection against an airborne virus.

But their is also a view that mask wearing acts as a reminder to everyone that the virus is still prevalent. It's only human for people to want this epidemic to be behind us - and to feel that "it's all over and we can get back to normal" but the figures being seen in the UK and other countries would suggest that it is not over and that there could be another wave. Thus mask wearing is one way of reminding us all to keep away from each other - because proximity is how the virus is transmitted.

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[spikehcm681]

To balance this, I haven’t seen any toilets taped off in my two weeks in Spain. People seem happy and obliging to wear masks in shops and other indoor areas (bars and restaurants excepted.

On the other hand all of the public toilets (where there are more than one) I've seen in Portugal have been taped off.

 

[Chris]

Part of the problem in the "to wear - or not to wear" debate was the initial view - emanating from the WHO and others - that the main route of transmission was through droplets - not through smaller airborne particles which can remain in the air and drift. This scientific advice only changed some 15 months after the start of the pandemic (SARS-CoV-2 in the USA, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (May 7, 2021), and the WHO (April 30, 2021).

So, for example, the 4 UK Governments were initially stressing "hands, face space (2 metres)". I recall seeing information that the disease was not an arerosol - i.e. airborne.

It's no wonder then that some people are confused. It's also true to say that the type of mask that most of us wear offers limited protection against an airborne virus.

But their is also a view that mask wearing acts as a reminder to everyone that the virus is still prevalent. It's only human for people to want this epidemic to be behind us - and to feel that "it's all over and we can get back to normal" but the figures being seen in the UK and other countries would suggest that it is not over and that there could be another wave. Thus mask wearing is one way of reminding us all to keep away from each other - because proximity is how the virus is transmitted.

It’s clearly airborne, hence my post.