Wildcamping (1 Viewer)

[vwalan]

its easy to use the phrase law or bye laws but show us proper rulings to back these laws or bye laws .
most signs in carparks etc arent legal in themselves .
a motor home is classed as a m1 vehicle . basically a car with a special body . regardless of size.
this has been proven in the eu courts . most of uk councils break more laws with signage etc than folk do parking in the carparks . but park dont camp.

 

[beerdrinker1]

I just remembered why I like wilding....I can generally avoid the unsavoury characters that frequent campsites

Don't blame you Dave, that is a one pair of unsavoury buggers if ever there were one !!!!!!!

By the way how did the concert go ?

Ken :thumb:

 

[Snowbird]

Don't blame you Dave, that is a one pair of unsavoury buggers if ever there were one !!!!!!!

By the way how did the concert go ?

Ken :thumb:

Extremely well thanks Ken. The meal was also excellent :thumb:

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[GJH]

its easy to use the phrase law or bye laws but show us proper rulings to back these laws or bye laws .
most signs in carparks etc arent legal in themselves .
a motor home is classed as a m1 vehicle . basically a car with a special body . regardless of size.
this has been proven in the eu courts . most of uk councils break more laws with signage etc than folk do parking in the carparks . but park dont camp.

I won't be daft enough to say all (as I haven't read all) but the TROs I've seen which restrict habitation do so fully legally. It is the TROs which are "proper rulings".

The signs in car parks are only really advisory, it is the TRO which counts. Signs in car parks are not covered by the same legislation as on street signs.

 

[vwalan]

I won't be daft enough to say all (as I haven't read all) but the TROs I've seen which restrict habitation do so fully legally. It is the TROs which are "proper rulings".

The signs in car parks are only really advisory, it is the TRO which counts. Signs in car parks are not covered by the same legislation as on street signs.

yes tro,s are legal but as said many carparks put up signs that cant be upheld in a court.
it does get very confusing .

 

[DavidG58]

TRO??

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[GJH]

yes tro,s are legal but as said [HI]many carparks put up signs that cant be upheld in a court. [/HI]
it does get very confusing .

A number of LAs use signs such as "Vehicles must be parked in compliance with the current order" - not very helpful (or even confusing) but perfectly legal.

Have you any references for any LA car park signs which courts have ruled illegal?

 

[GJH]

TRO??

Traffic Regulation Order - the most widely used tool to control parking.

 

[Wild Oggie]

All the places I have visited on Anglesey, have signs stating no overnight...



I did type a lot more but deleted it.

Perhaps you should remove the blinkers from your mind and eyes!

Type a lot more if you wish

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[vwalan]

A number of LAs use signs such as "Vehicles must be parked in compliance with the current order" - not very helpful (or even confusing) but perfectly legal.

Have you any references for any LA car park signs which courts have ruled illegal?

no as once you start to question the local authority they back down .
bit like the incorrect yellow lines . with no signage .
or the wrong coloured disabled parking areas . many get it wrong yet there is all the info out there for them to get it right.

 

[GJH]

no as once you start to question the local authority they back down .
bit like the incorrect yellow lines . with no signage .
or the wrong coloured disabled parking areas . many get it wrong yet there is all the info out there for them to get it right.

Are we talking about different things Alan? As I mentioned previously signs in car parks are not covered by the same legislation as on street signs (which include yellow lines and other markings on roads).

 

[vwalan]

we may be but authority does get it wrong very often . some of us spend hours with authorities over signage etc ,
but anyway parking is normally allowed camping isnt . eu law rules .

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[TheBig1]

interesting differentiation in law between public roads and any carparks. ALL carparks are owned by somebody so effectively private property even if its a council that owns them. nobody has an absolute right to park in a carpark and its down to the owner or council to publish their terms on a sign. on roads, different legislation such as TROs control who can and cant drive on or park on various highways and byways. provided notification is made in the local press, then signs don't necessarily have to be put up all over, just at the entrance to an area.

i agree that Brussels claims that EU law must apply to all member states, but the fact remains that they must be only implemented where local laws will not be compromised. asking for chapter and verse on the bylaws on every council in the country would be a massive undertaking. but to claim any laws or bylaws are irrelevant is a fools game. yes some people have found loopholes like the wrong colour lines used, but the law would need testing in court to prove that.

you may THINK a sign in a carpark cant be enforced, but can you PROVE it without a court challenge? and could you afford the legal fees and costs if you were wrong? most councils actively limit sleeping in a vehicle in carparks and on roads to restrict their risk of travellers setting up camp there. with carparks and metered parking bays, you are entering into a contract when parking there. breaching that contract will lead to a ticket and if unpayed a prosecution

 

[vwalan]

yes i do look at council files etc . just as a m,atter of interest google alan dawe speeding chideock dorset . that cost 3.5 million pounds being returned for wrongfull signage .
i am part of a national team of watchers of the authority.
it takes time but we do win . another one was starcross in devon .its going on all over the uk . and abroad . why do you think the spanish instruction were written . the spanish govt were took to the eu courts .
there are solicitors and barristors waiting to take up legitamate cases . mine took years . 5 magistrates courts and three crown courts .

 

[Reallyretired]

Nothing, it only becomes a problem when laws are broken or others are adversely affected (see previous post).

When the vehicle is used for [HI]domestic purposes[/HI], not simply time.

We all have the opportunity to plan our journeys and factor in rest stops with appropriate margins so we shouldn't become over tired.

No reason at all - unless laws are broken or others are adversely affected.

Irrelevant I'm afraid, no more rights for us than drivers of any other vehicle.

Are you saying that when I stop in a layby for 20minutes for a p*ss and a cuppa, I am wild camping? I don't think so.

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[GJH]

we may be but authority does get it wrong very often . some of us spend hours with authorities over signage etc ,
but anyway parking is normally allowed camping isnt . eu law rules .

Not EU law at all - it's local by laws.

yes i do look at council files etc . just as a m,atter of interest google alan dawe speeding chideock dorset . that cost 3.5 million pounds being returned for wrongfull signage .
i am part of a national team of watchers of the authority.
it takes time but we do win . another one was starcross in devon .its going on all over the uk . and abroad . why do you think the spanish instruction were written . the spanish govt were took to the eu courts .
there are solicitors and barristors waiting to take up legitamate cases . mine took years . 5 magistrates courts and three crown courts .

That case (and presumably the others) comes under roads legislation - as I keep saying, different from that covering car parks.

 

[GJH]

Are you saying that when I stop in a layby for 20minutes for a p*ss and a cuppa, I am wild camping? I don't think so.

Not at all. Roads (which include lay bys), as I keep pointing out, are covered by different legislation from most land where people camp off site. See Here.

 

[vwalan]

yes i agree with you. but councils do stick up signs that arent enforceable .
some times it may not be in carparks just open ground .
its very hard for a council or a private individual to do much about vehicles parking . they can gate areas . but open ground open to the public is difficult . mind you cant go along way from the highway before you break other laws .

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[ShiftZZ]

yes i do look at council files etc . just as a m,atter of interest google alan dawe speeding chideock dorset . that cost 3.5 million pounds being returned for wrongfull signage .
i am part of a national team of watchers of the authority.
it takes time but we do win . another one was starcross in devon .its going on all over the uk . and abroad . why do you think the spanish instruction were written . the spanish govt were took to the eu courts .
there are solicitors and barristors waiting to take up legitamate cases . mine took years . 5 magistrates courts and three crown courts .

Just checked it up.
" More than 24,000 drivers wrongfully convicted for speeding through a West Dorset village could have their fines repaid and penalty points reinstated.
It is estimated that it could cost the authorities £1.5million to reimburse all the affected motorists.
The development comes after a Government review of an inadequately-worded traffic regulation order that was supposed to limit drivers to 30mph on the main road through Chideock.
The review followed a test case, held at Dorchester Crown Court, where Cornish lorry driver Alan Dawe won an appeal against his conviction for ‘speeding’ through Chideock in October 2008 , paving the way for the original traffic order to be officially reviewed.
It was found that the order referred to a 30mph limit for the village’s non- existent ‘Duck Street’ rather than its correct name of Seatown Road.
It was ruled that the incorrect wording left the order invalid, meaning anyone convicted for ‘speeding’ through the village prior to 2007 could have their punishment overturned. "
http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/4448966.Speeding_fine_refund_hope_for_24_000_motorists/



So let me get this right...

There was a speed limit sign that all could see, regardless if they were locals or not. Actually the wording on the order is not really relevant unless you were caught speeding.

So someone, in this case, "Cornish lorry driver Alan Dawe" was caught speeding, he then decided to find a loophole to avoid a penalty for breaking the speed limit, reminds me of Solicitor Nick Freeman.

So now they are really proud of the fact that they have managed to cause all this fuss because they were caught speeding and found a rather pathetic loophole.
Indeed the law is an ass, the driver must have seen the sign, he got caught and then was sad enough to do this..
I was under the impression that speeding through villages was a dangerous and stupid thing to do regardless of the wording on the Traffic order. I wonder how many points he had before this conviction...

 

[Snowbird]

We will be leaving Benidorm on Monday for a drive up to Santander. The ferry is not booked until the 11th, so that should give us 6 nights on the road. This is to cover about 500 miles, as neither Smudger or myself were born in a hurry.
We will be wilding for those 6 nights as we have squandered all our money on campsite fees, beer and in Smudgers case burgers, during our 6 month stay in Benidorm. As you all know I will be posting how we get on with some photos of what I consider as good wilding spots. Unfortunately as of now, locations will not be posted to protect the guilty . I just hope there's a Burger King every 50 miles to keep him going and if anyone has POIs for Burger King I would be eternally grateful. Am sure the local supermarket manager will be glad to see the back of him. He has the poor bugger pushing a trolley load of beer to his gin palace on a daily basis .

 

[scotjimland]

It was found that the order referred to a 30mph limit for the village’s non- existent ‘Duck Street’ rather than its correct name of Seatown Road.

That's strange.. if you look at Google map street view there is a Duck Street .. the sign is on the stone wall https://www.google.com/maps?q=Chideock,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&ll=50.731695,-2.818218&spn=0.006119,0.016512&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=61.323728,135.263672&oq=Chideock.&hnear=Chideock,+Dorset,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=17

and I can't see Seatown Road.. oh:

Also.. looking the main road though the village, anyone who speeds through it needs locking up.. irrespective of a TRO

the Highway Code makes it perfectly clear
124
You MUST NOT exceed the maximum speed limits for the road and for your vehicle (see the table below).[HI] The presence of street lights generally means that there is a 30 mph[/HI] (48 km/h) speed limit unless otherwise specified.
Law RTRA sects 81, 86, 89 & sch 6

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[ShiftZZ]

That's strange.. if you look at Google map street view there is a Duck Street .. the sign is on the stone wall https://www.google.com/maps?q=Chideock,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&ll=50.731695,-2.818218&spn=0.006119,0.016512&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=61.323728,135.263672&oq=Chideock.&hnear=Chideock,+Dorset,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=17

and I can't see Seatown Road.. oh:

Also.. looking the main road though the village, anyone who speeds through it needs locking up.. irrespective of a TRO

the Highway Code makes it perfectly clear
124
You MUST NOT exceed the maximum speed limits for the road and for your vehicle (see the table below).[HI] The presence of street lights generally means that there is a 30 mph[/HI] (48 km/h) speed limit unless otherwise specified.
Law RTRA sects 81, 86, 89 & sch 6

Just done the same Jim, pretty little village, approached by some steep'ish hills CLEAR speed limiting signs, narrow roads, speeding a danger.
Yep, I bet they are really proud. I wonder if they would feel the same if one of their family was injured by an idiot driver speeding. I have two sat navs, both set to remind me of the speed limit, I always use them when driving in areas that I am unaware.

In a word PATHETIC.

 

[GJH]

Presumably this is one of those cases where a local nickname has, over time, become the accepted name but, legally, it has never been regularised. It probably happened so long ago that nobody currently employed by the council wouldrealise that Duck Street wasn't the real name.

It's a pity that some people who were stupid enough to be driving faster than the 30 mph indicated by the sign don't have the guts to admit they were in the wrong rather than finding loopholes like this.

 

[Jim]

I applaud any effort to get money back from councils They are at war with motorists, looks like Alan won a battle.Well done:thumb: Does this mean I advocate speeding in a 30 zone, of course not, but I'd never miss a chance to get one over on smug self serving councillors.

We've all been over the speed limit

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[scotjimland]

I applaud any effort to get money back from councils They are at war with motorists, looks like Alan won a battle.Well done:thumb: Does this mean I advocate speeding in a 30 zone, of course not, but I'd never miss a chance to get one over on smug self serving councillors.

We've all been over the speed limit

would you think the same if your daughter were killed by a car breaking the 30mph speed limit and the perp. got off on a technicality ?

or would you want the book thrown at them..

I know the answer..

 

[Jim]

would you think the same if your daughter were killed by a car breaking the 30mph speed limit and the perp. got off on a technicality ?

or would you want the book thrown at them..

I know the answer..

Of course but I'd want the book thrown at the councilors too for creating the technicality. Like I said, while no one is condoning it; we've all broken the speed limit. Then, after the fact, whether you fight the case or say it's a fair cop, it doesn't make you any less of a prat for exceeding it.

 

[vwalan]

Just done the same Jim, pretty little village, approached by some steep'ish hills CLEAR speed limiting signs, narrow roads, speeding a danger.
Yep, I bet they are really proud. I wonder if they would feel the same if one of their family was injured by an idiot driver speeding. I have two sat navs, both set to remind me of the speed limit, I always use them when driving in areas that I am unaware.

In a word PATHETIC.

there was alot more to it .
the sign had a red and white border making the sign ilegal .
it was outside the street light limit .
it was way before the real village .
the newspaper reports dont actually tell it quite right . in fact its still going on as they arent paying for the return of the east bound drivers .
but dont worry i am proud to have been the driver . i knew the sign was illegal before i did it . i had a letter from the department of transport telling me the sign was illegal and could not be used as a speed sign . there were lots of other faults with the authority that was incorrect . even the intended prosecution notice was signed by some one un authorized by the secretary of state . i had ten reasons why i could not be convicted . only used the signage . the judge found the street name wrong after i had proved the signage .
i think she knew there was such a lot of faults .
authority made lots of mistakes .i might have only made one .

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[ShiftZZ]

Well this smart arse was not that clever.

http://www.bridportnews.co.uk/news/...an_loses_Chideock_speed_camera_appeal/?ref=ar

Well done Judge Roger Jarvis..

So this is you with the illegal road sign?

 

[sedge]

Mainly don't do it cos it's not been our pleasure to find such lovely places where one could stay in splendid isolation.

But there again, the aire at Ambleside is being closed due to people climbing a slight hillock nearby are having their view spoilt and the Lake District it seems are in business to sell those views.

 

[ShiftZZ]

No wonder they are annoyed at the speeding...

Speeding: Driver does 103mph in 30mph zone in Chideock
http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/8333650.Speeding__Driver_does_103mph_in_30mph_zone_in_Chideock/

" Bridport section commander Alan Jenkins stressed the importance of speed limits after a traffic order regulating a safety camera at Chideock was found to be wrongly worded – opening the floodgates for some 24,000 motorists to claim their money back on a legal technicality.

But he also pointed out that none of the drivers protesting about the fines had denied they were exceeding the village’s 30mph speed limit. "

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