Why Britain is losing out ..

[scotjimland]

No one who has travelled in France can have failed to notice the number of foreign motorhomes. Thousands if not tens of thousands flock to France each year, not only in the season but throughout the year.

Brits, Germans, Dutch, Italians, Spanish, etc , it's like a united nations of vans on some sites, and they don't all go for the good weather or the wine.. no, they visit because of the attitude of the French to motorhomers, we are made welcome, excellent facilities are provided and although there are height barriers they always make parking available for vans.. usually free.

When asked by French who are thinking of visiting the UK what it's like, do we have aires, what are the site costs etc, once informed they raise their eyes and you can see them mentally scoring off the UK as a future destination.. they won't come, can you blame them?

Britain is loosing out massively, we have high fuel prices, height barriers, high handed officials, high traffic volumes, high camp site prices, but with virtually no aires, we will never attract the foreign motorhomer.

I'm aware of the work and petitions going on by some to improve the situation and the progress made, you have my greatest admiration, but frankly, I cannot see it changing any time soon.. if ever..

Is there anything else we can do, short of blockading Downing St. ?

 

[Jim]

Its a sorry state of affairs I agree. I am all for a blockade, but not Downing street, I can't afford the £200 LEZ fee

 

[madbluemad]

We parked in a campsite at Barmouth in the early spring of this year. I had just turned the engine off and got out of the cab when a German couple approched me and asked how much my pitch fee had been. They coudnt believe what they were being charged.

I could do nothing other than confirm that they had been charged correctley. They were flabergasted. I dont think they will be back and of course they will tell there friends.

Jim oh:

 

[Road Runner]

Why when you make a ferry booking are you ask your nationality? could it be Brits get loaded.

Was looking the other day and it happened, think it was the tunnel.

 

[Pikey Pete]

Am I missing something here ?

I don't get back to the UK much but last June I stayed at Moffat in Scotland for 3 days @ £7.50 pn and at Roberts Bridge for 2 days @ £9.50 pn. Which I think is very reasonable, when you consider that here in Spain in the season 33 euros a night is common.

Pete:Cool:

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[scotjimland]

Am I missing something here ?

I don't get back to the UK much but last June I stayed at Moffat in Scotland for 3 days @ £7.50 pn and at Roberts Bridge for 2 days @ £9.50 pn. Which I think is very reasonable, when you consider that here in Spain in the season 33 euros a night is common.

Pete:Cool:

That's why you see so many Spanish motorhomes in Southern France.. they don't come for the weather..

We are paying £9 for a cl with ehu.. not too bad for the UK , but I could have the same in France for €5, with better weather.

 

[Pikey Pete]

That's why you see so many Spanish motorhomes in Southern France.. they don't come for the weather..

We are paying £9 for a cl with ehu.. not too bad for the UK , but I could have the same in France for €5, with better weather.

It could also be that it gets too hot in Spain in the summer, even for the Spanish

 

[Jim]

With well over 8,000 new registrations every year and that doesn't include caravans! Reasonably priced campsites are going to be increasingly difficult to find as prices go up along with demand. New campsites are just not coming on line.:Sad:

 

[madbluemad]

Am I missing something here ?

I don't get back to the UK much but last June I stayed at Moffat in Scotland for 3 days @ £7.50 pn and at Roberts Bridge for 2 days @ £9.50 pn. Which I think is very reasonable, when you consider that here in Spain in the season 33 euros a night is common.

Pete:Cool:

Hi
Talking about the UK it all depends upon the facilities that the site has, the time of year, the site location etc etc. During the high season in the UK on a decent site in a popular location you will be paing £21.00 per night basic.

During bank holidays most decent sites will not take you unless you book for the week.

This year we paid less than half that price in Spain on a site which was far superior to any that I have seen in the UK.

Jim

Edit: dont know about Scotland

 

[scotjimland]

With well over 8,000 new registrations every year and that doesn't include caravans! Reasonably priced campsites are going to be increasingly difficult to find as prices go up along with demand. New campsites are just not coming on line.:Sad:

Quite, not only here, in Southern Spain there is a net loss of sites to developers who build more concrete abominations.. but who can blame the site owners..? they can work for the rest of their lives and make a decent income, or sell for a few million, retire and buy a nice RV ...

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[Jim]

Councils are frightened of occupation by itinerants. IMO, most will never pass plans for Aire like stops here because they know how costly it is to get the wasters off the property and then clean up after them. If only the authorities would apply the law to all, I am sure things would improve as the council's would not have to worry about the Aire being turned into a scrap yard and open air toilet.

 

[Road Runner]

Small mindedness in this country sadly (rather like the PC moboh:)

Areas dependant on tourism and constant advertising for business yet sites not allowed even the smallest of signs.

In France the councils have signs for most touristy businesses outside and inside of towns and most useful when your driving a 34 foot bus with a car on the back, most welcome sight sometimes to know your right. In the UK you just have to guess.

Same goes in the US if you stop your likely to spend so do$h locally :thumb:

 

[Diabalo]

If only the authorities would apply the law to all, I am sure things would improve as the council's would not have to worry about the Aire being turned into a scrap yard and open air toilet.

It's their human right to turn it in to what ever they like

 

[Road Runner]

Councils are frightened of occupation by itinerants. IMO, most will never pass plans for Aire like stops here because they know how costly it is to get the wasters off the property and then clean up after them. If only the authorities would apply the law to all, I am sure things would improve as the council's would not have to worry about the Aire being turned into a scrap yard and open air toilet.

But these are international people how do differing countries get it right and us as usual so wrong?

 

[Jim]

It's their human right to turn it in to what ever they like

So says a judge in Brussels

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[Road Runner]

So says a judge in Brussels

But its only the UK who listens to him or her or does he single us out in all his ruling

 

[weejohnw]

cost and no facilities

Hi there we have just joined the motorhome fraternity and plan to visit Belgium and France next year.
We had a few days recently in the Irish Republic only to be on a Forest Park site with "traveler" neighbours, very un-nerving.
Just last week we visited Co. Antrim. Carrickfergus Council is the first here to install French style Aire facilities, one in Carrickfergus beside the castle and another in Whitehead, a few miles up the coast. Both had parking spaces lined out, presumably to fit Dinky models. However the "unit" at Whitehead had been - you've guessed it, vandalised.
We are looking forward to visiting France next year on our Battlefield tour, then hopefully for some warmer weather than we're used to, and to experience the relaxed atmosphere where motorhomers are considered as tourists and welcomed as an asset to their community.
Regards.

 

[keith]

Councils are frightened of occupation by itinerants. IMO, most will never pass plans for Aire like stops here because they know how costly it is to get the wasters off the property and then clean up after them. If only the authorities would apply the law to all, I am sure things would improve as the council's would not have to worry about the Aire being turned into a scrap yard and open air toilet.

So what do the French do?

They have the same problems, I have seen a few places that have exactly the same mess in France as we get here.

 

[Jim]

So what do the French do?

They have the same problems, I have seen a few places that have exactly the same mess in France as we get here.

I'm not sure what they do. most of our "Human Rights" laws were probably dreamt up in France, so i am sure they have the problem too.

The Aires have been around for a very long time. If the French had no aires today, would they start building them tomorrow?

 

[scotjimland]

The Aires have been around for a very long time. If the French had no aires today, would they start building them tomorrow?

Probably not, but they are still maintaining and investing in them, I've seen resurfacing and EHU upgraded on at least two aires but also seen one with the bourne trashed.. presumably for the cash.. but with over 3,000 aires it's likely a few will suffer.

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[weejohnw]

raw nerves

My comments on the lack of facilities here in the UK and my anticipation of a good time in France next year seem to hit a few raw nerves! Having been disabled and unable to holiday by plane etc, we are really looking forward to using our motorhome. Unfortunatly our experiences of using it here in Northern Ireland and across the border in the Republic have not been very good. Facilities even on some "proper" sites are poor. In the news recently have been the actions of some inconsiderate motorhomers in a local coastal town, taking up many parking spaces and causing resentment. This has led motorhomes to be hate objects. There seems no or very little idea in the minds of councils etc to consider providing parking for motorhomes. Even using the motorhome for a day-trip causes problems when trying to park up somewhere and maybe spend a pound or two in a town.
Our excitment at touring France for a few weeks is kindled by friends and family who have motorhomed in France for years, being enthusiastic about the facilities available in towns, villages and sites. A welcoming attitude from locals is also much talked about. To that end we are looking forward to making use of our motorhome in France where we will be able to compare the experience with that of here in this wee corner of the UK, where I am disappointed to say has not been very encouraging. There are some very lovely spots here, but motorhoming is not a friendly way to enjoy them.

 

[GJH]

A couple of postings above have mentioned human rights legislation so perhaps a bit of background may be useful.

Human rights legislation throughout the EU is there to implement the European Convention on Human Rights. However, it is important to realise that the EU agreement which required such legislation to be enacted did not require that the same legislation be enacted in all countries.

The agreement allows for each country to incorporate derogations which enable the legislation to be reflect national characteristics and customs in each different country. Most countries took advantage of this fact to ensure that the legislation was at least as fair to the native population as to anyone else.

In the UK, the incoming New Labour government in 1997 needed a piece of flagship legislation to celebrate its victory - so enacted the Human Rights Act 1998 which is aligned to chattering classes political theory rather than the characteristics and customs of the native UK population.

Time and time again since 1998, the New Labour government has been frustrated in implementing other measures (e.g. anti-terrorist regulations) because they breach the HRA 1998. The sensible thing, of course, would be to amend the HRA so that it more closely meets the needs of this country - something which is perfectly possible under the Convention.

However, for New Labour to do so it would have to admit that the first piece of flagship legislation which the party passed after gaining power is a failure - so don't hold your breath.

Graham

 

[GJH]

In the post starting this thread, Jim said:

I'm aware of the work and petitions going on by some to improve the situation and the progress made, you have my greatest admiration, but frankly, I cannot see it changing any time soon.. if ever..

Is there anything else we can do, short of blockading Downing St. ?

The only way that the situation will change is if people provide evidence to those who can bring about change which convinces them that change is necessary.

If people in power in town and city halls believe that the changes we are looking for will result in unauthorised campsites springing up and/or that there is no economic benefit to be gained within their local areas then they will not put the effort in to bring about those changes.

Just a couple of days ago I posted a thread highlighting the results of David Lloyd's work with the members & officers of Redcar & Cleveland Council - the new facility in Guisborough. There are, of course, a few other examples, most listed on my web site Here.

David showed us all, with his efforts, what has to be done to bring about change. If every member of this forum puts in a similar effort with their local authority then change will happen in other areas.

To put it another, more blunt, way, if every member of this forum sits back waiting for someone else to do something, change is highly unlikely.

Graham

 

[Road Runner]

A couple of postings above have mentioned human rights legislation so perhaps a bit of background may be useful.

Human rights legislation throughout the EU is there to implement the European Convention on Human Rights. However, it is important to realise that the EU agreement which required such legislation to be enacted did not require that the same legislation be enacted in all countries.

The agreement allows for each country to incorporate derogations which enable the legislation to be reflect national characteristics and customs in each different country. Most countries took advantage of this fact to ensure that the legislation was at least as fair to the native population as to anyone else.

In the UK, the incoming New Labour government in 1997 needed a piece of flagship legislation to celebrate its victory - so enacted the Human Rights Act 1998 which is aligned to chattering classes political theory rather than the characteristics and customs of the native UK population.

Time and time again since 1998, the New Labour government has been frustrated in implementing other measures (e.g. anti-terrorist regulations) because they breach the HRA 1998. The sensible thing, of course, would be to amend the HRA so that it more closely meets the needs of this country - something which is perfectly possible under the Convention.

However, for New Labour to do so it would have to admit that the first piece of flagship legislation which the party passed after gaining power is a failure - so don't hold your breath.

Graham

What an excellent posting and absolutely spot on:thumb:

 

[pappajohn]

A couple of postings above have mentioned human rights legislation so perhaps a bit of background may be useful.

Human rights legislation throughout the EU is there to implement the European Convention on Human Rights. However, it is important to realise that the EU agreement which required such legislation to be enacted did not require that the same legislation be enacted in all countries.

The agreement allows for each country to incorporate derogations which enable the legislation to be reflect national characteristics and customs in each different country. Most countries took advantage of this fact to ensure that the legislation was at least as fair to the native population as to anyone else.

In the UK, the incoming New Labour government in 1997 needed a piece of flagship legislation to celebrate its victory - so enacted the Human Rights Act 1998 which is aligned to chattering classes political theory rather than the characteristics and customs of the native UK population.

Time and time again since 1998, the New Labour government has been frustrated in implementing other measures (e.g. anti-terrorist regulations) because they breach the HRA 1998. The sensible thing, of course, would be to amend the HRA so that it more closely meets the needs of this country - something which is perfectly possible under the Convention.

However, for New Labour to do so it would have to admit that the first piece of flagship legislation which the party passed after gaining power is a failure - so don't hold your breath.

Graham

we seemed to manage pretty damned well before this hated act was introduced thank you very much,
everyone i'v asked has said without it we wouldnt have as much crime, illegal immigration ect as there would be no act for the perpetrators to hide behind. :Angry:
sorry to hi-jack the thread but i had to say it and i wont enter a debate about it.:thumb:

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[scotjimland]

To put it another, more blunt, way, if every member of this forum sits back waiting for someone else to do something, change is highly unlikely.

Graham

I totally agree Graham ..

About three years ago the idea of network of sites was suggested by a member from the Facts forum modelled on the France Passion network..
As I recall they had a website www.britishpassion.com ( don't bother clicking, the site is dead) and were very active in promoting the scheme.. printing literature and application forms for potential landlords and members.
I don't know exactly what went wrong with the plan but it soon died, I assume from lack of uptake by the land owners.. I tried to search the thread in Facts but as I'm no longer a 'card carrying member' my search was blocked..

At the time I thought it a brilliant idea, one with great potential .. food for thought..

 

[GJH]

I totally agree Graham ..

About three years ago the idea of network of sites was suggested by a member from the Facts forum modelled on the France Passion network..
As I recall they had a website www.britishpassion.com ( don't bother clicking, the site is dead) and were very active in promoting the scheme.. printing literature and application forms for potential landlords and members.
I don't know exactly what went wrong with the plan but it soon died, I assume from lack of uptake by the land owners.. I tried to search the thread in Facts but as I'm no longer a 'card carrying member' my search was blocked..

At the time I thought it a brilliant idea, one with great potential .. food for thought..

Could well be, Jim. I wonder if UK planning laws (the ones which also govern status of sites like CLs/CSs) had anything to do with it?

The thing about encouraging local authorities to do something is that they already have the powers to provide facilities in their car parks (if they take advantage of them) and that might not be as easy for private landowners.

Graham

 

[GJH]

What an excellent posting and absolutely spot on:thumb:

Which just goes to prove that it IS possible for local government officers - and not just retired ones I'm sure - to learn something in the course of their work

Graham

 

[Bulletguy]

We parked in a campsite at Barmouth in the early spring of this year. I had just turned the engine off and got out of the cab when a German couple approched me and asked how much my pitch fee had been. They coudnt believe what they were being charged.

I could do nothing other than confirm that they had been charged correctley. They were flabergasted. I dont think they will be back and of course they will tell there friends.

Jim oh:

I stopped off on a site just outside Ostend a few months ago. They were charging 25 euro (£20) a night for a pitch without hookup.

I parked up further down the road for free instead.

 

[Onderweg]

Hi all of you,

I am not from Brittain, but from the Netherlands, recently bought myself a camper and are enjoying it very much.
The first thing i looked for: is there a forum related to campers from all European users. If all european camperers are joined together we are able to set a real point to all governments.

But, could not find anything alike.

Finally i ended up with joining a Brittish, Belgiuim and Dutch forum. (My French and Spannish is too bad)
:Blush:

In my opinion all forums should facilitate an European Campering Site

I realize that the languague barrier is there, but should not be a too big of a problem for our IT guys

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