Why are motorhomes so persecuted?

[juliandavies]

I've only been full-timing for a few weeks but already I've noticed that MHs seem to be frowned upon by many. Often this includes caravans but often it is just MHs...

1 - LONDON PARKING. I once parked in Shoreditch completely inside a legal bay. Two separate people came up to me and told me I could not park "that" there. Apart from the fact that I COULD park it there...it was none of their business!

2 - CC SITES. Why do they seem to have an intake of breath when you say you are a (large) MH?? Why do I get shoved to the enormous pitches. I am at Cherry Hinton at the moment and another MH just arrived (20ft tops) and was forced onto the space for massive MHs. Both of us could EASILY fit on any of the pitches. I do not get this attitude from private CL sites. Most of the certificated sites seems to want to tell you that you can't come!
PS At this site the waste disposal is on a massive hill!!!

3 - DEVELOPERS. When I sold my house I agreed with the Management Agents that I could park my RV in the enormous unused carpark for a couple of months. This was fine. The residents were happy. The police were happy. But then the developers insisted that I move. The reason? It would attract other MHs (despite the fact that it had been there for 2 months without doing so). [Still cant believe the post someone wrote about not being able to park an MH at the property they were planning to buy!?]

Can't think of others right now (just wanted a quick rant) but I know there are all sorts of prejudiced attitudes to MHs (especially American RVs)...
Any others anyone?
Grrr:Angry:

 

[bigfoot]

Generally we are penalised because of the actions of a small number of morons. Also there is a paranoia regarding New age skyvers/travellers. However they seem to get away with holding authoruties to blackmail. We had a group near us some time ago in their untaxed ,dodgy vehicles and in order to 'persuade' them to leave the Council gave them FREE DIESEL!!!
Now the area they were on is barred to motor vehicles. Years before they came, families would go and pitch a tent just for the day so the kids to camp with thier parents close by,no more.

 

[scotjimland]

Add to your list

Being asked to pay more because your an RV :Angry: and when you ask why the reasons given are:

You use more water and electric and you dump more.. where that comes from I don't know.. must be all the roughage we eat .. Makes no odds that the tugger with a 20ft van with a huge awning has a fan heater blowing in it all day ... :Angry:

 

[haganap]

what about being asked to pay more because you are a MH? not just an RV but an ordinary MH:Angry: the reason? they see us as having more money. the very words out of a site owners mouth when asked,

And then theres the charge for an awning? whats that all about, the caravan pulls up (does teh numerous things they do) and then gets their awning out, tehn parks a car next to it, LOOK AT ALL THAT SPACE HES TAKEN! we merely extend and awning and then bang your up a £2 a night? why? not even a ground sheet:Angry::Angry::Angry: just a winde out canaopy.

MAkes me mad I tell ya, MAD:Angry:

However when a site owner attempts any of the above, do as I do, move on and find somewhere MH friendly, they do exist I promise.

 

[juliandavies]

You use more water and electric and you dump more.. :Angry:

you what!!!! thats outrageous!
maybe they presume that only fat yankees would own an RV...

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[GJH]

(snip)
1 - LONDON PARKING. I once parked in Shoreditch completely inside a legal bay. Two separate people came up to me and told me I could not park "that" there. Apart from the fact that I COULD park it there...it was none of their business!
(snip)

There are all sorts of restrictions in London on all large vehicles, not just motorhomes. In Hackney (which includes Shoreditch according to a Google search I just did) vehicles must not exceed 2.27m in width or 5.25m in length or weigh in excess of 2540 kg to park within Controlled Parking Zones. Outside CPZs the maximum weight is 7 tonnes. CPZs also usually require permits.

There is also the London wide Lorry Control Scheme, which bans heavy vehicles (not just lorries) from parking overnight.

In general I reckon the long term solution is to persuade local authorities to provide a number of spaces specifically for larger private vehicles. If motorhome owners can persuade their own local councils of the economic benefits which can accrue from encouraging visitors in MHs then they are (more and more) often willing to listen.

In London, though, I think flogging a dead horse would probably have more chance of success

Graham

 

[oldun]

The only justification they can give for using more water and dumping more waste is when MHs stay on site for only one or two nights.

MHs can store up waste for many days so they can dump a week or so waste during a one night stay. They can also fill up with relatively large amounts of water. This means that one nighter MHs do indeed dump more and use more water than tuggers.

 

[Bulletguy]

I've only been full-timing for a few weeks but already I've noticed that MHs seem to be frowned upon by many. Often this includes caravans but often it is just MHs...

1 - LONDON PARKING. I once parked in Shoreditch completely inside a legal bay. Two separate people came up to me and told me I could not park "that" there. Apart from the fact that I COULD park it there...it was none of their business!

Unless they were officials of some kind then they dont have any authority or right to tell you. As you say it was 'none of their business' i suspect they were not, so smile and then ignore them.

2 - CC SITES. Why do they seem to have an intake of breath when you say you are a (large) MH?? Why do I get shoved to the enormous pitches. I am at Cherry Hinton at the moment and another MH just arrived (20ft tops) and was forced onto the space for massive MHs. Both of us could EASILY fit on any of the pitches. I do not get this attitude from private CL sites. Most of the certificated sites seems to want to tell you that you can't come!
PS At this site the waste disposal is on a massive hill!!!

Many large mh or rv owners are on this forum. It would prove extremely useful, especially those such as yourself who are fulltiming, to compile a list of unwelcoming sites both in the UK and Europe. Why not start a book? I've even thought of a title for you....."The Good The Bad and The Ugly."

3 - DEVELOPERS. When I sold my house I agreed with the Management Agents that I could park my RV in the enormous unused carpark for a couple of months. This was fine. The residents were happy. The police were happy. But then the developers insisted that I move. The reason? It would attract other MHs (despite the fact that it had been there for 2 months without doing so). [Still cant believe the post someone wrote about not being able to park an MH at the property they were planning to buy!?]

Should have told them to contact the Police and see how far they would get with that.

 

[lady jann]

one of the reasons we are persicuted i think is that we are some of the last remaining free spirits in the u. k . and cherish our rapidly dissapearing freedoms !!!! :Sad:
we always seem to get a wellcome on the continent



rayval


for ever young :thumb:

 

[bald eagle]

I think its best to let it go over the top of your head, and don't
worry about what other people say and think. lifes for living.

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[Bulletguy]

one of the reasons we are persicuted i think is that we are some of the last remaining free spirits in the u. k . and cherish our rapidly dissapearing freedoms !!!! :Sad:
we always seem to get a wellcome on the continent

I'd agree with that. Especially after experiencing harrassment from HMRC on going out from the UK as to where i'm going and how much money i have etc......not to mention the unwelcoming return where i'm treated like a common criminal and certainly a lot worse than if i was an illegal immigrant! :Angry:

Once i'm across the channel, then the attitude changes completly and i feel more relaxed and free. I often think it's like escaping from a POW camp!

 

[scotjimland]

The only justification they can give for using more water and dumping more waste is when MHs stay on site for only one or two nights.

MHs can store up waste for many days so they can dump a week or so waste during a one night stay. They can also fill up with relatively large amounts of water. This means that one nighter MHs do indeed dump more and use more water than tuggers.

That is only a small minority of owners.. and in any case, what does a 100lt of fresh water and 100lt of waste cost ? No where near the nightly fees ..
The same service is provided in France for free or a couple of Euro..

On two occasions I've had an RV TAX levied, what else can you call it ? I was booking in for 28 days then told it was £2 extra for big uns.. .. so that's a spurious argument ..

 

[oldun]

That is only a small minority of owners.. and in any case, what does a 100lt of fresh water and 100lt of waste cost ? No where near the nightly fees ./QUOTE]

I'm sorry to disillusion you but it cost quite a lot in France. My fiends have a campsite the Avergne and the cost of water is very high and the cost of emptying their cesspit is extortionate. Why should they offer the same prices to a one nighter motorhomer when it often costs them far more than a it does for one night in a tent or a caravan?

This argument is not applicable to longer stay campers.

Why is it that only motorhomers expect to get everything for free?

Campsite owners run a business like everyone else, not a social service for motorhomers. If you want to fill up with large quantities of water and dump large quantities of waste water then expect to pay?

Don't expect other campers to subsidise you.

 

[scotjimland]

I'm sorry to disillusion you but it cost quite a lot in France.

Why is it that only motorhomers expect to get everything for free?

Campsite owners run a business like everyone else, not a social service for motorhomers. If you want to fill up with large quantities of water and dump large quantities of waste water then expect to pay?

Don't expect other campers to subsidise you.

The discussion was about motorhomes being ripped off in the UK .. simply because they are motorhomes.. I've never been penalised in France nor am not disillusioned about what things cost nor expect ANYTHING free or to be subsidised..

French aires generally charge for water/dumping, you pay for what you use.. not your SIZE .

I specifically said we have been penalised for being an RV .. for no other reason than they think we can afford more... "so lets milk them" seems to be the attitude by some site owners, not all I hasten to add, many are honest and fair with charges, .. others just see us as a cash cow.. :Angry:

 

[eddie]

Many large mh or rv owners are on this forum. It would prove extremely useful, especially those such as yourself who are fulltiming, to compile a list of unwelcoming sites both in the UK and Europe. Why not start a book? I've even thought of a title for you....."The Good The Bad and The Ugly."

Good idea:thumb: Put us on the list at Cornish Farm Touring Park, as we don't welcome very large RV's

The reality is that we get complaints from people with smaller vans and caravans "Do I have to look at "That" all day long" Can't you move them some where else"

Also when a large RV comes on site for one or two nights, after several days freeparking that they arrive with a 50 gallon black tank full, which they dump and wash away with 50 gallons of grey water into our holding tank

The tank that we have to pay to be emptied. The last time we had it emptied it cost us £130 for disposal of "1000 gallons of hazourdous waste" So the 100 gallon dump costs us £13.00

Add the water for washing the RV, the awning and the towed car and another dump before they leave knackering posts and the corners of the adjacent pitches and you will see why we dont jump for joy when a 40' RV pulls up.

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[Wildman]

Good idea:thumb: Put us on the list at Cornish Farm Touring Park, as we don't welcome very large RV's

The reality is that we get complaints from people with smaller vans and caravans "Do I have to look at "That" all day long" Can't you move them some where else"

Also when a large RV comes on site for one or two nights, after several days freeparking that they arrive with a 50 gallon black tank full, which they dump and wash away with 50 gallons of grey water into our holding tank

The tank that we have to pay to be emptied. The last time we had it emptied it cost us £130 for disposal of "1000 gallons of hazourdous waste" So the 100 gallon dump costs us £13.00

Add the water for washing the RV, the awning and the towed car and another dump before they leave knackering posts and the corners of the adjacent pitches and you will see why we dont jump for joy when a 40' RV pulls up.

Bearing in mind the larger RV's tend not to wildcamp, they only produce the same amount of waste per head as the rest of us, apart from a few who are always so full of it they will dump less anyway, hee hee. As to clipping other pitches then I suggest that is a layout and management problem. Other mh owners are usually pleased to large RV's, I know I would be, but then I don't use sites and don't spend much in motorhome shops or have work done in garages. I am a self confessed recycler skin flint, cheapscate and proud of it. I do not waste the resources I have lining other peoples pockets. When I wild camp we buy all of out food etc locally, vist local attractions then move on to the next place, we tour, we do not actually camp. Stop, cook, sleep, move on. we enjoy life on the move. It is only new age travellers who give us old age travellers a bad name. Businesses need to learn they cannot differentiate or very soon the people who provide their living will find that income reducing as members vote with their feet.
I think that was a very blinkered veiw Eddie. but then maybe you have been having a bad day. Hope it improves.

 

[roadtraveller]

We got a ticket, in Chicester for overhanging the bay, and even though my partner is disabled they wouldn't waiver the fee. So we will never go there again, my other rant is height barriers at certain stores and supermarkets. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[scotjimland]

We don't wild camp or free park, as wildman said, we are really too big, so we never arrive on a site with waste other than what we produced that day.

As for 'pitch clipping' the biggest offenders are the tuggers with 4x4s churning up the grass completely unnecessarily.. and those that complain about the size are jealous .. or just being busy bodies.. for example,

There was an RV on our present CL, parked well away from the main pitching area, the owner was getting it road ready, then one of the visiting CC members complained because it wasn't taxed !! .. What the hell has that to do with anybody except the owner.. absolutely nothing, they were just being 'busies' .. why can't people just live and let live .. some people seem to get a perverse pleasure from complaining and trying to cause trouble.. :Angry:

 

[kkclassic]

RV Welcome

Good idea:thumb: Put us on the list at Cornish Farm Touring Park, as we don't welcome very large RV's

The reality is that we get complaints from people with smaller vans and caravans "Do I have to look at "That" all day long" Can't you move them some where else"

Also when a large RV comes on site for one or two nights, after several days freeparking that they arrive with a 50 gallon black tank full, which they dump and wash away with 50 gallons of grey water into our holding tank

The tank that we have to pay to be emptied. The last time we had it emptied it cost us £130 for disposal of "1000 gallons of hazourdous waste" So the 100 gallon dump costs us £13.00

Add the water for washing the RV, the awning and the towed car and another dump before they leave knackering posts and the corners of the adjacent pitches and you will see why we dont jump for joy when a 40' RV pulls up.

I have to ask Eddievanbitz this, as An RV Owner at 30Ft long am I not welcome at Cornish Farm despite the amount of work I have had carried out by your workshop?

 

[eddie]

Businesses need to learn they cannot differentiate or very soon the people who provide their living will find that income reducing as members vote with their feet.
I think that was a very blinkered veiw Eddie. but then maybe you have been having a bad day. Hope it improves.

Why is it blinkered? Pure business sense! a couple of days stay for a large RV for us is simply not viable or desirable, and we do get complaints from other guests.

As for the layout of the campsite there is no problem. Most large RV drivers manage to drive on and off their pitches and drive around the site without a problem, others manage to demolish all sorts of things and take out bollards, lights and plow the grass for us.

Our site is busy, wins awards and I am very happy with it and I never have bad days, sleep soundly and enjoy driving a large RV myself

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[lady jann]

starting to look a bit like eddievanbitz against the motorhomers !!!!!that can t be right i thought this was motorhome fun !!!




rayval

forever young :thumb:

 

[eddie]

I have to ask Eddievanbitz this, as An RV Owner at 30Ft long am I not welcome at Cornish Farm despite the amount of work I have had carried out by your workshop?

Well if you have had work carried out by Van Bitz you will already have stayed at Cornish Farm Touring Park, and 30' is not the 40' I referred to

 

[eddie]

starting to look a bit like eddievanbitz against the motorhomers !!!!!that can t be right i thought this was motorhome fun !!!


rayval

forever young :thumb:

Nope not at all, just dont want dirty great big ones on the campsite

 

[oldun]

Without a doubt I find parking restrictions the main reason why I believe that Motorhomers are persecuted.

The fact that I have on board cooking facilities, a toilet, bed etc is no reason why I should be barred from parking.

Most parking areas adopt the shining example set by our much loved government.... if a few people overstep the mark then persecute everyone of that ilk.

The latest example being large rises in drinking to curb the anti social louts who drink in excess, foul-mouth everyone and throw up all over the place.

It's a pity that we can't get together as a group and exert more pressure but I suppose we do not really have much clout as, compared to drinkers and car drivers we are few in number.

It is strange that as a motorhomer I am welcomed in many EU countries yet despised in the UK

 

[juliandavies]

/The reality is that we get complaints from people with smaller vans and caravans "Do I have to look at "That" all day long" Can't you move them some where else"
[/quote]

I appreciate your other concerns but this is precisely the one that I think gets on our wick!
How dare CARAVANS say something like that. Are they aware that the rest of the country is saying that whenever they see a caravan!!! The irony!
This is why the CC has its nose very slightly in the air.

Eddie - I would have hoped as a MH owner you would defend them more and quite frankly, tell those complainers to stuff it and mind their own business.
Why do you side with them? Because they contribute more to your business I guess?

A real shame.
How do you deal with this 'attitude' towards MHs/RVs when you go to other sites?

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[GJH]

(snip)
Most parking areas adopt the shining example set by our much loved government.... if a few people overstep the mark then persecute everyone of that ilk.
(snip)

That's exactly the reason why as many of us as possible should be approaching local authorities positively, with evidence of the economic benefits that can accrue by welcoming motorhomes.

If councillors are constantly getting their ears bent by residents complaining about motorhome owners overstepping the mark - and hearing nothing to balance such complaints - it isn't surprising that they act as they do.

(snip)
It's a pity that we can't get together as a group and exert more pressure but I suppose we do not really have much clout as, compared to drinkers and car drivers we are few in number.
(snip)

We don't have to act as a group. The recent announcements of experimental MH overnight parking schemes in Guisborough, Ipswich and other places have come about as a result of the effort of individuals making constructive approaches to their local councils. If it can be done in those areas then individuals in other areas could well have similar success by using similar approaches.

Graham

 

[eddie]

/The reality is that we get complaints from people with smaller vans and caravans "Do I have to look at "That" all day long" Can't you move them some where else"

Eddie - I would have hoped as a MH owner you would defend them more and quite frankly, tell those complainers to stuff it and mind their own business.
Why do you side with them? Because they contribute more to your business I guess?
[/quote]

What makes you think that I disagree with them

The point really that I was making is that it is simply no good rolling out the usual cliches "vote with your feet" "They need our business", when in reality when you find a site happy to accept you, cherish it!

There are very few extremely large RV's in the Country and if we never saw one again it wouldn't matter to our business.

I am just being honest and open an saying that a very large RV staying on the site for a couple of days probably would cost us money so we charge a "dump fee"

If a large RV stays more than 3 nights we are very happy to allow a free dump, under three nights we charge £15.00 for the service. Why should pay to dispose of poo that was created off site?

Some will understand this policy, see it as fair a equitable, some will complain and tell me that they would never stay at Cornish Farm To them I would simply say "Thank you"

Eddie

 

[juliandavies]

The recent announcements of experimental MH overnight parking schemes in Guisborough, Ipswich and other places
Graham

Graham - I'd never heard of this - do you know where I can find more details?

Eddie - I said I understood your other reasons - its just the 'eyesore reason' that seems a bit outrageous from caravanners.
Even though you drive an RV do you think that others/yours are eyesores?
Look forward to visiting your site in my 29footer sometime - hope I'll be welcomed!

 

[Mark&Sue]

Firstly, i'd like to say that as motorhomers/RVers you have to expect to reap what you sow. For example, Sue and I parked up in Weston-super-Mare Locking Road Car Park for three weeks in December, the car park allows HGV overnighters but not caravans, trailers or overnight camping. We spoke to another motorhomer that said they were moved on from that particular car park as overnight camping was forbidden. We had a Trailer attached and we decided to pay the full fee per 24 hours as a coach, cars were £4 and HGV and Coaches were £5. After a couple of days we bumped into the chap that managed the car park and had a friendly chat, he had no problem that we were there and noted that we had paid as a coach, had not dumped grey waste everywhere and had no awning out or welcome mat at the door. He didn't mind us using our generator at night and was very friendly. We stayed for 3 weeks and the day we left gave the chap a nice bottle of French Red as a thankyou for being so understanding. Why did he not move us on? Here's why, we were courteous, we paid our way, we kept our spot clean, we didn't take liberties and we didn't make our space look like a pich with awnings and bins etc.
I mention this because we all take liberties from time to time but it does seem that a few out there expect to get special treatment obove others.
As for the points that Eddie Vanbitz has made, I have to agree, as a warden I see motorhomes and RV's come and go, I drive a 34ft Damon myself and am very careful as to how I drive it so as not to drive on the grass when it is sodden and so that I don't damage the site, I would class myself as a good RV driver. The Cornish Farm layout is fine for RVs, at 34ft I can manouvre happily around the whole site and park on any one of the pitches without difficulty and without causing damage to grass, pitch or facilities.
We do however have to suffer RV owners that would smash a smart car into little pieces if they were driving it around Cornish Farm because they either can't drive or they don't care if they damage things. We currently have 2 RVs on-site, 1 is considerate and careful, the other drove over the grass and smashed a pitch marker to get on to their pitch. One came to me and asked advice on dumping grey and black waste correctly, the other stuck his hose into the grey waste drive over and decided to pump his black up the trough so that everyone could share his toilet waste, he then attempted to drive away and leave it for me to clean up.
These RV's are 30-35 ft, when a european motorhome pays £13 per night, dumps a small amount of grey and empties his elsan, uses an average amount of electricity, fills with an average amount of water, sticks to the gravel when the grass is wet, doesn't swing the rear of his motorhome into the bourns and obscures no ones view we tend to want to see them coming and going regularly and we welcome them with open arms. When I see a Large RV (35ft +) arriving, I cringe, I hope that he is one of the good ones, I wonder how much damage will be done if he is a bad driver, I wonder who I'm going to annoy by pitching this monster next to someone else. I also wonder why some RV owners complain about being charged to dump their waste if they are only staying for 1 or 2 nights?
I'm not saying that all RV owners are bad, quite the opposite, but they need to understand that any site is a business, our water is metered, our electric is metered, our waste costs £13 per 100Gallons to be disposed of and sites cost money for upkeep and repair when things get damaged. So I ask those people that think Eddie is being unreasonable for disliking large RVs on-site, if you stay on a site for 1 night and dump 100 gallons of waste @ £13 and use £4 worth of electricity and then uses fills with fresh water, how much "As a Business" is the site supposed to make from that client when he is only charging £13-£15 per night? Before answering please bear in mind that the site owners have to pay wardens wages and keep the site in good order.
We like all of our customers and we have had nothing but positive remarks about the site and ourselves, we don't want to turn anyone away, we want good business. It does however make good business sense to try to avoid the things that cost more than you make, anyone that argues with that has to be nuts.
In summary, my message to anyone that believes Mr Vanbitz is being anti RV or against motorhomes has not been to Vanbitz or Cornish Farm. The point he is making is simply that Big RV's don't make good business sense and Cornish Farm wouldn't miss them if they didn't frequent the site.

 

[olley]

Hi just been reading this thread and I have to say Eddie your coming across as an RV hater.

You say dirty great RV, at what size are you no longer a dirty great RV? 38' 36' 34'?? at what size do people stop complaining at our size??

If you charge people who stay less than 3 days £15 to dump, what's your beef?? they can't all knock over posts and go over the grass.

I suggest you add a max size to your website and brochure, as the CC do then we will know whether we can get on, should we wish to visit. Which I have to say is unlikely now, and no I don't expect you will lose any sleep over that either.

Olley

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