Which is the most reliable base van (1 Viewer)

[bfb]

Reading your last post BUSBY it would seem you use your noddle. Correct tyres and the tile to park on sensible. I didn't say the front wheel drive is unusable just that side by side with a rear wheel drive facing uphill on grass the FWD won't cut it unless you turn it 180 and reverse up hill which is the better way to do it. A lady in a Fiat based 1995 I think was trying to get onto the main track which was only 2or 3 inches above the grass about six or seven years ago in the morning but the dew on the grass was enough for her to slip. I told her to stop. I hopped in and rolled the van back and turned 180. Reversed it straight up and onto the gravel track using the same track as she had slipped on. In reverse it acts like a RWD. After explaining to her the mechanics of weight distribution and drive she stopped thinking I was a driving god. She invited me over for a coffee when she got back from shopping and made me a mean steak sandwich.

 

[EuroTrotters]

I used to run fleets of mercedes vans (still run a smaller one).

The best one we ever had was a 1998 Sprinter (gear change on floor). 250,000 miles, never skipped a beat. Superb van.

Motorhome wise. We have had 3 Sprinters, two nearly new and one brand new. The sprintshit gearbox was a nightmare. Between the three of the Sprinters they cost me a fortune. The 3 litre v6 manual being the worst.

We now have a 2000 fiat Ducato and with the exception of the FWD not being as good as RWD, it had been brilliant.

 

[The Wino]

According to Parkers 2017 most reliable van survey .. No1 is the Sprinter

https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans/news-and-advice/most-reliable-vans/

Looks from that Merc is best if you have the cash but Transit in the top4 every year. Fiat only in the top 10 once. This is probably for new only secondhand could well be different. Its only for reliabiklity running costs could well be different as could depreciation especially so with motorhomes it seems to me the Fiat etc and Ford base depreciate fairly slowly the Merc base cost a lot more and seem (to me) to depreciate a lot more in the first few years., Horses for courses.

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[bfb]

Hi "The Wino",

Read your post and thought I would tell you my ideas for finding a good motorhome.
1/ Reliability of base vehicle. You can have the best home in the world, useless on dead vehicle.
2/ Build quality and design of the habitation. Again useless if it doesn't work for you or just packs up.
3/ Overall depreciation. Inferior base or habitation build or both together and you will lose out.
I spent over 5 years researching used prices and build quality before buying a 1997 Hymer BM640. It hasn't the bells and whistles of of more modern cheaper motorhomes but I lived in it when working away for 2 years and have changed some of the lights for LED's but other than having a couple of glow plugs replaced, 5 new tyres and traveling to competitions in Europe and 60,000 kilometres later the engine still purrs like a knitting machine. I would happily jump in it now and travel to Holland then travel down to Spain and back without having to worry to much. I wouldn't feel the same in a lot of the other motorhomes I've seen. Yes it's 20 years old but a Hymer dealer told me it will hold it's price and said he would sell it within a week for a price not far from what I paid for it.
By the way even with the snow which is on it now, the horrendous rain we had recently the old girl has never leaked and is still toasty inside. Hymers are quirky but built like the proverbial and I would rather have that than my friends which he bought new the same time as I bought mine. The gearbox lost 5th cog, rear bumper not fastened properly, water leaks in the sink and the habitation door flew open whilst traveling in France, and that is a new vehicle, incidentally it's a Ford base and they couldn't find a new 5th gear anywhere in Europe for over 3months. Then it was stolen outside his house. Still got mine!

 

[bfb]

Reference TeeMyob's post,

Have to agree with you whole hardheartedly.
A VW mechanic who works on my Caravelle and is what I call an old school mechanic told me that the older mercs are the most reliable, which is why I plumped for the 2.9 5cylinder engine (the last of the million mile engines). He told me that there were more issues with the newer engines and gearboxes. A friend in Holland has a 4 cylinder 4litre conversion from a van. It has covered over 650,000 miles and still goes like stink.
You can get problems with any vehicle but overall I think I will stick withe the Merc for the time being.
That is unless I can find a crystal ball.
Good to get feedback from MOTORHOMEFUNSTERS. Good way to gleen knowledge.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Well I`ve just spent the kids inheritance on a Mercedes so I have most of my extremities crossed.

Ahh lets see now.
Screen price.
Headlamps.
Leaks you don't expect.
Service costs for B service on Sprinter
Damp check and spraying plywood preservative, on the fibreglass underfloor.
Automatic box that you hope never goes wrong, but wonderful anyway.
It is the same with any big cost item though.
HOWEVER the most common white van on the road that I see seems to be Sprinter and normally doing about 80+ There is a great following in the big fleet world with these .

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[mitzimad]

most of the problems nowdays are to do with emmisions reducing equipment which is generally the same across most vans

 

[PeteH]

Don't get that problem much in Spain,,,not much grass,,mainly gravel pitches,,,another reason we don't tour in UK,,BUSBY

The trouble is not all of us can get medical insurance to cover foreign travel Otherwise I would not have sold the R-V in the USA. I still had some 20 states to visit.

 

[PeteH]

Ahh lets see now.
Screen price.
Headlamps.
Leaks you don't expect.
Service costs for B service on Sprinter
Damp check and spraying plywood preservative, on the fibreglass underfloor.
Automatic box that you hope never goes wrong, but wonderful anyway.
It is the same with any big cost item though.
HOWEVER the most common white van on the road that I see seems to be Sprinter and normally doing about 80+ There is a great following in the big fleet world with these .

In my case, I wanted rear wheel drive, I wanted an Auto Box, I had had serious issues with a Fiat Gearbox, and wasn't prepared to risk the same box with an electric Leg. (Comfortmatic). Screen cost is covered by Insurance (£50 excess). Most service work I am still capable of carrying out anyway, and My local Guy, who does my MOT`s, is familiar with Sprinter derivatives if I get stuck. The damp check showed up GOOD, and I have sorted R-V roofs twice in the past. The floors are no worse that the ones I had in 3 R-V`s!.

So Hopefully we will survive

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[WhiteCheyenneMan]

I liked my 2008 Ducato-based Autotrail and had no problems running it from 4000-16000 miles.

Now we have a 2010 Transit-based Hymer. The passenger door has no external lock and I've replaced the driver's door lock with a Garrison lock. An easy DIY job. I also have a Stoplock for the steering wheel and a Bulldog wheel lock as well as a Scorpion alarm system.

If I have a complaint, it's the lack of adjustment on the steering wheel (I think later models do have adjustment?) and it took me a while to find the best seat position and now it's okay, if not perfect. You would need to check this out Mike.

It's a dream to drive, smooth, quiet and lively, though the Hymer is 350kgs lighter than the Autotrail. I love the Hill-start assist and haven't scared any following vehicles yet, unlike the Fiat!

I've only done 1000 miles so far, taking it from 12000 to 13000, so still not fully run-in! But I'm adding Wynns' Injector Protector to every third tank, just in case!

As for the rear wheel drive 'advantage' of a Mercedes. I'm unconvinced. At a car level, my Volvo S60 with front wheel drive, got us to Heathrow and back (Dec 2012/3?) in 4"-6" of snow on the M25 and A28 and up a long steep hill close to home (Traction control on!) without any hesitation. We had to zig-zag around sliding Mercs, Beemers and others on the west side of Reigate Hill (M25) but had no problems at all.

 

[skylinersi]

fiat will be the best base van soon, in our version anyway, as all fiats customers do the testing for them, then frequently 'take the van out for the day' to the local fiat professional dealer for various recalls, its how we are currently running ours in..................

 

[bfb]

I like it. How much do you charge them for your professionalism. Lots I hope!

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[two]

The advantage of RWD is that there is much more weight there on the rear to aid traction and, for some, twice as many tyres. You also gain a better turning circle.

I’ve not got stuck in my Fiat, yet, because I’m careful about where I stop but I’ve noticed a few in trouble where I’ve managed with RWD. It could be the driving methods used and there are more of them to notice too.

 

[WhiteCheyenneMan]

The advantage of RWD is that there is much more weight there on the rear to aid traction and, for some, twice as many tyres. You also gain a better turning circle.

I’ve not got stuck in my Fiat, yet, because I’m careful about where I stop but I’ve noticed a few in trouble where I’ve managed with RWD. It could be the driving methods used and there are more of them to notice too.

As an Advanced and retired professional driver, I remain unconvinced. It probably is, as you say, down to the driving methods used........or lack of them

 

[two]

40 or so years ago, I towed a caravan with a Renault16 (FWD). I was the 'poor relation' in touring club, most had big, powerful vehicles. One wet spring weekend, everyone was having difficulty getting off a rally field due to churned-up mud at the gateway. Even 4x4s were needing a push but I was one of the few who got out unassisted because (I was lighter and) I was lucky enough to get my drive wheels onto tarmac before stopping to check that the road was clear to continue.

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[haganap]

In my case, I wanted rear wheel drive, I wanted an Auto Box, I had had serious issues with a Fiat Gearbox, and wasn't prepared to risk the same box with an electric Leg. (Comfortmatic). Screen cost is covered by Insurance (£50 excess). Most service work I am still capable of carrying out anyway, and My local Guy, who does my MOT`s, is familiar with Sprinter derivatives if I get stuck. The damp check showed up GOOD, and I have sorted R-V roofs twice in the past. The floors are no worse that the ones I had in 3 R-V`s!.

So Hopefully we will survive

I think you will survive just fine, it's a fine van......


Here's my take on it and having had 5 vans you can take it or leave it.

My first van was a CI Carrioca 5 on a fiat Ducato 2003 2-0L diesel and I serviced it all myself and it never let me down once ever nothing not a thing, body roll was poor rectified by air rides on the back. Only thing that needed replacing was the front wheel bearings at 24k
My second van was an Adria 670 sk on a 2.8 Ducato and a 2005 which was the last of the old 2.8 JTD... Fantastic van which I had chipped and towed a car many miles with. Had it serviced and the clutch started slipping at about 30k so got rid but to that point had been faultless other than ,,, had to have the front wheel bearings done at 25 k. This time on an Alko chassis the van held the road much better but with air rides stuck on the back was far improved.
My 3rd van was a Bessacar 765 on the new Fiat engine 2007... It never went backwards without jumping up the road but was a great van, never let us down once as long as we only went forward. It was a 2.3 and was well under powered for such a big van although held the road well on an Alko chassis and again air rides sorted any wobbles over.
My 4th van was the Rapido on a Merc 3-0L Auto V6.. Engine wise the best thing I ever drove in the motorhome world. Amazingly powerful and would out perform many cars. Downside was the MPG was appalling the ride was awful with lots of body roll but some air rides helped improve but did not fully eradicate the issue. Never had a problem with anything on the van mechanically was faultless and very reliable and such a pleasure to drive.
Current van is a 3-0L on a fiat, tag axle with full air suspension on the front. Ride is amazing due to the air, plenty of power but not as much as the Merc. Never wobbles on the road only long term will the reliability be reported on. Already up to 31k having just finished a 3k ski trip...

never had an Iveco or Ford but I always think about the layout etc before the power unit as they are all much for muchness these days in my opinion.

 

[PeteH]

The only time I have ever been "stuck" on a field is in the last Fiat. (apart from many years ago, when I got towed off, having at that time a Ford Granada MK2 Estate and a 21ft twin axle caravan!). Even my 9tonne pusher R-V was less likely to "dig it`s own grave". BUT, I always put the driving wheels on a Track mat or some old bread crates if the site is at all damp. It`s the initial "start" that often is the primary issue.

 

[haganap]

I've been stuck numerous times on all the vans above that I mention including the rear wheel drive Merc which simply sank in a field...
On my ski trip recently, others needed snow chains but my snow tyres prevented the need for them.

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[WhiteCheyenneMan]

My first van was a CI Carrioca 5 on a fiat Ducato 2003 2-0L diesel and I serviced it all myself and it never let me down once ever nothing not a thing, body roll was poor rectified by air rides on the back. Only thing that needed replacing was the front wheel bearings at 24k
My second van was an Adria 670 sk on a 2.8 Ducato and a 2005 which was the last of the old 2.8 JTD... .....Had it serviced and the clutch started slipping at about 30k so got rid but to that point had been faultless other than ,,, had to have the front wheel bearings done at 25 k......

If the wheel bearings on my car went at24/25k I'd be very disappointed! So if Vans are designed for heavy commercial use carrying heavy loads, isn't such wear just as bad?

Don't get me wrong, it's nice to see some support for Ducato's but....., or am I being over optimistic?

 

[Nicepix]

After reading everyone's comments we have stuck with a Fiat base Motor home. I'm told in France 82% of motor homes are on a Fiat base. We sold our 2009 Fiat base which after having the gearbox rebuilt due to the sync going between 1st & 2nd was running very sweetly. Whilst looking for a new to us MH the choices we seem to have had was either stick with Fiat, Renault or Ford. From what I could see Ford have some serious security and expensive reliability problems. Loads of horror reports of fuel injection and cracked pistons which required an engine rebuild. At least with Fiat its only gearboxes.
Mercedes base over here is like looking for hens teeth. Plus we fell in love with a Bavaria model which fits are requirements very well. We collect it on Monday.

We've spent a lot of time looking at motor homes in France. It is, as you may have found, a logistical nightmare. I agree with you about there being far more choice in the Ducato base, but we have just ordered a Merc' based MH. The base wasn't a major factor in our list of wants and dislikes, but it came with the layout and price that were important to us.

I've driven the 316 Sprinters at work in my previous life so am comfortable with the cab. And it has more than double the bhp of our last camping car for not much more weight, so instead of crawling up hills at 80kph in fourth I'll hopefully be in the fast lane!

 

[CazPaul]

I like the old 1995-2000 Merc Sprinters, 2.9 122bhp, good, solid reliable plodder, rear wheel drive, no fancy electronics. Gearstick on the floor.
We are soon getting an Iveco 3 litre 2005 166 bhp, I do hope it will be as reliable as the said Merc.

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[Nicepix]

This is the 2.7 five pot with 156 on tap. I'm hoping that it won't be a plodder

 

[CazPaul]

This is the 2.7 five pot with 156 on tap. I'm hoping that it won't be a plodder

I would sooner have an old plodder in a motorhome, reliability is the key to me for remote areas. The later 2.7 gearstick on the dash you are talking about is a good powerful engine, we have had 2 of them as well, no trouble with them although not as reliable as the older 2.9.
An old mechanic I worked with used to tell young mechanics this little saying when looking around commercial yards for Merc vans to buy.
''If the gearsticks on the floor, rush around and buy some more
But if the gearsticks on the dash, get outa there in a flash''

You can tell which he liked best can't you, a little hard on the 2.7 5 pot I think, but you get the drift.

 

[Nicepix]

We've had an old plodder. Our last van was a 1986 Le Voyageur based on a Citroen C25 non-turbo, 73bhp motor pulling 3 tonnes. No PAS or A/C either. We went all over France in it but hills were not its forte.

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[skylinersi]

buy a fiat and help with product development...........

 

[Nicepix]

To sum up.
Newer vans are better than older vans.
Fiat are the main producer of MH bases.
I am sure if they were problematic the major MH converters would not use them as it's their reputation to produce a good reliable vehicle.
The use of other bases is the keep the home markets happy, ie hymer use Mercedes.
Mercedes make van bases, fiat make motorhome bases.
PVC matter less as the whole van is used.
My opinion is nobody makes a bad base.
Reliability is down to how a van is driven, and how often.
And if it has been serviced correctly and looked after.
Luck as any component can fail prematurely.
The most important part is layout of the van.
You can spend up to 24 hours around the van but only a few hours driving.

Don't agree with much of this. Especially the part about Fiat making motorhome bases. Al-Ko make the chassis and you can get the Al-Ko chassis with other engines. Not just Fiat.

Regards the base vehicle; it isn't just the engine that differs. When you buy a MH you also get the base vehicle's switchgear and in some cases the doors. seats and other parts. So, you might inherit the Ford's lack of anti-theft security and the dreaded tin worm that affects many Transits along with your MH. Each base vehicle type will have its own pros and cons.

I agree about the layout being more important than the base though. In our case the criteria was price > layout > quality > base in that order.

 

[two]

Sometimes you even get less than the base vehicle on a conversion. I believe the new Fiats come with rain sensing wipers and lane departure warning (probably other stuff as well). Some sensors are omitted if the converter does not take the cab, hence the features do not function, even though the rest of the facility is present.

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