Which driver was to blame (1 Viewer)

[Larrynwin]

There are times when common sense should take precedence over who has right if way.
If the vehicle from the right is travelling at what appears to be excessive speed , wait , as a collision is not sensible.
When in hospital saying " it was his fault " doesnt make it hurt less.
BMW2 was probably at fault but only ever proceed if safe to do so even if you have right of way.

 

[Southdowners]

No Oriel BMW 1 did not come or was not coming from the right, however BMW 1 did enter a completely clear roundabout as BMW 2 at this point had not entered the roundabout area. BMW 2 should have given way to BMW 1 simply because he was already on the roundabout.

Surely they must have been coming from the right - you turn left onto a roundabout and travel on it to the right (clockwise). Obviously left and right applies differently to where you're standing at the time.

As I said - you always give way to traffic coming from the right. Or am I missing something?

 

[buttons]

From Highway Code
Rule 185
When reaching the roundabout you should

• give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
• check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
• watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
• look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.
• Rule 188
  Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this.

Yep that is what I thought......

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[Larrynwin]

What distance has to be clear to your right tigger befor you may enter a roundabout 10-20-100-1000mtrs or a mile. Who says when it is clear to enter a small roundabout. If a car is doing 60mph then perhaps we should give him a mile and a half of clear road before we enter a clear small roundabout.
All mini roundabouts have GIVE WAY signs with a picture of a roundabout before the roundabout why is this if it is not to give way to cars already on the roundabout.

You proceed when safe to do so. You should judge when that is based on the speed and distance of other vehicles.
If you are unable to make that judgement you should reconsider your ability to be driving.

 

[2657]

Not sure what you mean... Why would a vehicle accessing the roundabout once you're on it be of any consequence?

Because if they are approaching at speed they may run into the side of you or at the very least indulge in a spot of horn blowing and finger wagging because you have had the audacity to make them slow down and not treat the roundabout as a t junction where they would have automatic right of way

 

[jezport]

Could end up knock for knock as its hard to prove the speed that BM1 had entered the roundabout and also the speed and exact timing that BM2 crossed the line.

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[buttons]

Because if they are approaching at speed they may run into the side of you or at the very least indulge in a spot of horn blowing and finger wagging because you have had the audacity to make them slow down and not treat the roundabout as a t junction where they would have automatic right of way

Spot on matamoros.

 

[buttons]

Could end up knock for knock as its hard to prove the speed that BM1 had entered the roundabout and also the speed and exact timing that BM2 crossed the line.

BM2 hit the off side rear quarter of BM1, the roundabout is only two car lengths wide. I would say BM1 entered the roundabout before BM2.

 

[KeithChesterfield]

Here up't North, and especially in France, I find that giving way on a roundabout to much bigger vehicles than the one I'm driving is advisable - whether it's on my left or right.

That personal rule has stood me in good stead in my many years of driving.

Drivers! Don't you love 'em? ....

https://youtu.be/k83LBRXwcAE

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[walburga]

Pet hate of mine...mini roundabouts...If I'm on one, and turning right, it's amazing that the vehicles behind me, also turning right, want to ram my drivers door bacause they've cut right over the roundabout !

All roundabouts have broken white lines on them, I'm sure that means be prepared to stop and give way. I've upset quite a few drivers, approaching from the right, who think they've got right of way, even though they're 20 or 30 yards away, and are going too fast.

Allen

 

[Jabberwocky]

both to blame for buying a BMW!

Was either of them indicating......... Oh no silly question

Always give way to traffic already on the roundabout, simples!

 

[Jabberwocky]

Have another look at the highway code.. Mini roundabouts are different.. Sort of..

The rule is the same.. the size makes it different.. In this case it is both drivers at fault, one for failing to give way, one for failing to take action to avoid an accident. I predict the insurance companies will split liability close to 50/50

Cant with you there, why would both be at fault? By your logic ever accident on the road would be 50/50, obviously driver 2 fault for not giving way to traffic already on the roundabout.

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[jezport]

BM2 hit the off side rear quarter of BM1, the roundabout is only two car lengths wide. I would say BM1 entered the roundabout before BM2.

If BM1 was traveling faster that may not be the case "I would say" is not the same as "I saw" and gives an element of doubt to what was actually seen and remembered. It could make a difference to the insurance companies.

 

[gus-lopez]

Correct but mini roundabouts are different in respect that they are much smaller, (maybe just two car lengths across),some think that they have right of way long before they have reached the roundabout. I think you should give way to vehicles that are already on the roundabout area.

The only difference is they are smaller . It is quite simple you cannot drive at them ,like people do, but should imagine them as a solid pillar rising it the sky. Therefore they sjould be negotiated to ensure ypou don't go over them or drive into me if I'm already on there..
Yes & you cannot legally "approach at speed" as if you even touch the centre part, whether painted or solid hump, it is a 3 point offence + fine except for large vehicles.

I totally agree that once you're on the roundabout you have right of way, even if a
vehicle is coming from the right but not actually on it. BUT many people assume that they can enter at speed from the right, using the car as a battering ram as on this occasion. It is therefore wise to be circumspect if someone is approaching fast from the right. The driver coming from the right obviously was travelling too fast if a collision occurred. The insurance companies will probably treat it as a 50/50.

If you are on it & T boned there is no discussion the other person is at fault. I would never accept a 50/50 in those circs & would initiate legal proceedings against all involved.

Have another look at the highway code.. Mini roundabouts are different.. Sort of..

The rule is the same.. the size makes it different.. In this case it is both drivers at fault, one for failing to give way, one for failing to take action to avoid an accident. I predict the insurance companies will split liability close to 50/50

How can it be both ? The one failing to give way is no:2. No:1 is negotiating a mini -roundabout that in some case to comply with the " don't touch the middle part " will require you to use the incoming roads & possibly the pavements. No:2 is at fault all day every day. As above I'd never entertain 50/50 & additionally I'd want paying from the moment I was stood up & not on my way to where I was going.

Bingo emmitdb I award you driver of the month. Why is it that other drivers just cant understand this too. Nothing irritates me more than someone tooting me for already being on the roundabout before they enter it. I also share your devilment at times, they really give me the hump.....

Have a look at my post. Being on the roundabout is irrelevant. You should gid way to traffic approaching from the right. On a large roundabout that usually only includes traffic already on the roundabout but on mini roundabouts it includes traffic approaching the roundabout.

Careful about that high horse, its a long way down.

Nonsense. Once on roundabout , whatever size, you have the right of way.

Every one is quoting rules. Its going to down to proving who is in the wrong.. Car 1 will simply say that its car 2s fault as he will say the car was on the roundabout. .

A dash cam in car 1 wont show what happened and IF there is one in car two the driver better be pretty sure before submitting the tape.

No a dash cam won't show the actual accident BUT will show the moment of impact, the fact that No:1 was on the roundabout & had passed the turning from which No:2 emerged & that No:1 was struck from behind/side. Which in itself is sufficient.

No:2 doesn't have to submit it . If I was in No;1 as soon as I clocked it I'd take a photo & insist the police asked for the card.

There is also the possibility that the person has more than 1 camera in the vehicle- Friend of mine has a dash cam facing out the windscreen, He has a second mounted above the rear screen facing to the rear & another alongside it facing in to the vehicle to record the interior in case of a smash/grab. They show everything.

Pet hate of mine...mini roundabouts...If I'm on one, and turning right, it's amazing that the vehicles behind me, also turning right, want to ram my drivers door bacause they've cut right over the roundabout !

All roundabouts have broken white lines on them, I'm sure that means be prepared to stop and give way. I've upset quite a few drivers, approaching from the right, who think they've got right of way, even though they're 20 or 30 yards away, and are going too fast.

Allen

Exactly & as soon as you touch that middle part you have broken the law & you lose all right to any possibility you had that you were in the right.

 

[Larby]

Ah, mini roundabouts, where people try to use them to turn around, sometimes involving a 3 point turn.
Police included...........

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[mitzimad]

the fact that no 2 has tee boned no 1 would suggest no 1 was already on the roundabout had number 2 been hit in the side fthen no 1 would have been at fault
i stopped at my local mini at the exact same moment as three other cars recently and we all sat there for a few seconds not knowing which should go first i was in the white van so i won

 

[The Wino]

Both at fault as both driving BMW's and both could have easily avoided an accident by not being dick heads and driving aggresively. No2 is at fault more but proving it will be difficult so No1 may learn the hard way it pays more to avoid an accident than be stubborn.

 

[buttons]

Both at fault as both driving BMW's and both could have easily avoided an accident by not being dick heads and driving aggresively. No2 is at fault more but proving it will be difficult so No1 may learn the hard way it pays more to avoid an accident than be stubborn.

What is being stubborn about entering a clear roundabout with no other cars on it or waiting to go onto it, sorry confused...

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[Badknee]

I don't care, they were both BMW's so I hope they were written off. Two less on the roads

 

[Chocy boy]

If a BMW hits my Astra, I am in the wrong.
If my Astra hits BMW, I am in the wrong.
Reason, BMW drivers think they own the road.

 

[Southdowners]

If a BMW hits my Astra, I am in the wrong.
If my Astra hits BMW, I am in the wrong.
Reason, BMW drivers think they own the road.

Really... and what exactly are you basing this on?

Why is it considered OK here to be obnoxious to other road users just because of the vehicle they own? Not just on this thread but generally there seems to be downright hostility towards those who own what I would call 'nice' vehicles.

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[scotjimland]

which one were you driving @buttons ?

 

[Chocy boy]

Really... and what exactly are you basing this on?

Why is it considered OK here to be obnoxious to other road users just because of the vehicle they own? Not just on this thread but generally there seems to be downright hostility towards those who own what I would call 'nice' vehicles.

Wife drives a BMW. Just trying to bring a bit of fun. Its a standard joke about BMW drivers. Same as BMW = Brake My Window.

 

[awg]

Pet hate of mine...mini roundabouts...If I'm on one, and turning right, it's amazing that the vehicles behind me, also turning right, want to ram my drivers door bacause they've cut right over the roundabout !

All roundabouts have broken white lines on them, I'm sure that means be prepared to stop and give way. I've upset quite a few drivers, approaching from the right, who think they've got right of way, even though they're 20 or 30 yards away, and are going too fast.

Allen

The mini-roundabouts near me usually have 2 entrances with double narrow broken white lines and one entrance with large single broken white line. Although I treat them the same as large roundabouts I have wondered if the different style of broken lines alters the priority in any way. I've not sen any consistency to the pattern such as the single large broken line is always on what was the side road or what was the main road before the mini-roundabout was created.

Allan

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[buttons]

which one were you driving @buttons ?

No Jim wouldn't have one as a gift. Wouldn't suit my image at all, I'm far to placid to drive a BM. Probably got too much hair too.

 

[34127]

I note that in many of the above post, the term ' right of way' is used.
This is an interesting quote from the highway code.

The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance, but they advise you when you should give way to others. Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident.

 

[RollingRog]

Surely the word 'approaching' means if you see a car approaching, driving towards the roundabout then you wait until they have gone past you before you enter the roundabout?
No 2 was in the wrong as no1 was already on the roundabout!

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[Charlie]

Looking again at this I spot a common mistake.

I like many above have put BMW 2 driver as at fault.

But it was the driver of BMW driver 1 that failed to give way as one should do on a roundabout to cars approaching from the left.

So driver 2 was not at fault ?

 

[sedge]

Driver 1 was far too far ahead whatever speed he happened to be going, to give way to anyone if they then hit him in the nearside rear quarter - and you can't exactly race round mini roundabouts whatever you are driving and even if you are Sabine what's her name - though, as you see someone from your nearside about to T-bone you - believe you me - you do tend to accelerate! It's involuntary!

Bloke did it to me one day when he pulled out from a pub carpark on my right and hit my rear quarter. It went to court as he blamed ME - and he wasn't insured anyway as it turned out. His defence? Apparently I was obviously going far too fast in a 30 limit so it was down to me. Idiot ......... Then the a-hole called me a liar!

 

[Charlie]

Driver 1 was far too far ahead whatever speed he happened to be going, to give way to anyone if they then hit him in the nearside rear quarter - and you can't exactly race round mini roundabouts whatever you are driving and even if you are Sabine what's her name - though, as you see someone from your nearside about to T-bone you - believe you me - you do tend to accelerate! It's involuntary!

Bloke did it to me one day when he pulled out from a pub carpark on my right and hit my rear quarter. It went to court as he blamed ME - and he wasn't insured anyway as it turned out. His defence? Apparently I was obviously going far too fast in a 30 limit so it was down to me. Idiot ......... Then the a-hole called me a liar!

Schmit.......... Thats Sabines last name not me being funny ...

Sorry but if a driver fails to stop and give way at a roundabout and is then struck on the side the actual vehicle position is going to count for very little if anything because the offending driver has failed to give way.

Splitting hairs counts for nowt ...

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