which brand B2B ( DC-DC BATTERY CHARGERS) (1 Viewer)

[tomm]

Am now at a point in considering having installed ( among other changes ) ,a B2B charger in the van. Our touring style /van usage is changing to us more and more NOT using ehu. So are looking to maximise and maintain available battery power.

Please bear with me as I am not well versed in all things electric and am looking for advice on the following.

Present set up is ... a matched pair of 125 Ah leisure batteries already in place and working fine....... There is also a solar panel already in place on the roof ,not installed by me , it came already fitted on van. it is probably/possibly around the 125 W.There is no paperwork to verify the wattage , however van supplying dealer reckons on it being around 125 based on physical dimensions .......There is a basic PWM regulator in place at the moment.......There is enough space on the roof to add another 100 W panel.

Plan to have = 250Ah of leisure batteries , plus say 225W of solar panels . Plus change solar regulator to MPPT .Plus add a DC to DC battery charger.

Another reason to maintain and maximise battery power is that the van has an eberspacher diesel heater , which requires a hefty hit on the batteries to get going.

On searching around the net and on the forums , it looks like 4 of the main contenders brands for DC to DC battery chargers appear to be...... ctek//nds//sterling//votronic . There are probably others , however these 4 crop up regularly.Like on this link ...

Are these brands all much of a sameness , or is there any brand which perhaps has the technical edge on others ? Any particular brand /model suitable for the expected set up , as described above ? All views welcome please.

Am having to go out to work now , so will not be able to respond to any posts until later today or tomorrow...Thanks all

 

[Wissel]

I've not used any of the others you mention to date, but I've had the CTEK chargers fitted for 4 1/2 years and they have worked flawlessly.

I have a D250s with Smartpass, which is a high power, multi-stage B2B with MPPT. I also have a CTEK MXS25 for when on EHU.

If your van has a smart alternator you'll need the D250Sa, if going the CTEK route.

Only other thing I can say, is that after doing a lot of research I'll be buying a Sterling B2B very soon. This is only because I'm switching to LifePO4 batteries and the CTEK can't charge them.

 

[rod_vw]

RING also supply a B2B unit with MPPT PV controller built in. See http://www.ringautomotive.com/uk/pr...tery+Maintenance+Tools/SmartChargePro/RSCDC30

I have an early one which RING will admit has minor software problems but they are working on a fix for that. The MPPT part is excellent and 99% of the time the B2B works well.

Rod

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[JimJams]

The Sterling 60ah B2B charger is yes a brilliant system as one of the available options on the market.

I think you firstly need to look at what actually you require and would the cost of getting a B2B installed actually benefit you massively. Most modern day chassis manufactured motorhomes do not need B2B chargers. What you actually benefit from having one installed is generally minimal. We offer and still install them but there are potentially better options that may be suffice but of course we all use our own vans in different ways!

I think with what you are suggesting already.. a decent battery leisure bank is a must, then change your basic regulator for the latest Victron Blue Solar MPPT regulator then if the space allows it as you have suggested add an additional 100watt minimum panel installed giving you the 220watt solar which is a nice bank of panels on the roof. unless you intend to run such items like big inverters then apart from the diesel heating everything else should be generally a minimal battery drain for you, this being said I don't know your setup though?

B2B chargers are yes a great system without the need of getting generators out of lockers and upsetting your neighbours before you have even started it!! but its just that we have so many customers that come to us and with their bucket list suggesting such items like B2B chargers and as we advise sometimes look at you existing equipment like panels with rubbish regulators or cheap batteries, change them to the correct setup and try it! if you find you need more power then yes look at the other available options on the market..
If you don't need it then you have saved around £650-£700 to put towards the next toy

 

[Guigsy]

Is it a good idea to mix and match solar panels? Do they have to be wired in series?

 

[Lenny HB]

I have been looking into them myself and come to the conclusion although a bit more expensive the Votronic appears to be the best solution.

The Votronic has a feed from the D+ terminal which triggers charging so it only works with the engine running also has a remote switch option.

The Sterling unit works by sensing starter battery voltage and automatically cuts in when the starter battery voltage is above 13.2v. What concerns me about the Sterling unit is that if you have a solar charger to the starter battery be it via a Dual output regulator/Battery Master or CBE relay, when the solar is charging the starter battery the voltage will rise and the B2B with cut in there by draining the starter battery (when parked no engine running), the volts then drop B2B cuts out and solar starts charging the starter battery, this turns into a perpetual cycle not something I would be prepared to live live . You can get round it by fitting a high power relay in line with the B2B fed from the D+ or an ignition feed, so it can only work with either the engine running or the igniton on. If you are going to do that I might as well buy the Votronic which looks a much better built unit anyway.

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[Lenny HB]

Is it a good idea to mix and match solar panels? Do they have to be wired in series?

Doesn't matter about mixing different panels. For a motorhome they are best wired in parallel then if one is in shade you still get the output from the other ones, in series if one is in shade you loose all output.

 

[gerry mcg]

I was considering a Sterling B2B charger to add to my new Globecar when I got it in Jan 17 - I went to Vanbitz to get an alarm and solar fitted and James / Eddie looked to the performance of the Shaudlt EBL119 that was fitted and came to the conclusion they thought a 60A Sterling B2B charger wouldn't bring much to the table as the EBL119 already operated at something like 40A when the engine was running.

The recommendation was to not bother (in the immediate term) and save my money & see how the EBL performed for a while - and a B"B could always be fitted at a later stage if required. I've not needed one yet.

 

[Bart]

I have a sterling 60a b2b charger which we installed before we had solar installed and it suited us good at the time when we were wild camping as we were moving every day , HOWEVER even though its a 60a B2B charger the most i have ever seen going into the batteries was 40 amps , so i'm not sure if a need a larger alternator or what.
IF i was redoing it all again i would leave the B2B charger till the end and spend the dosh on better batteries and solar first.

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[Wissel]

HOWEVER even though its a 60a B2B charger the most i have ever seen going into the batteries was 40 amps , so i'm not sure if a need a larger alternator or what.

This could also be down to how fast your battery can charge. From memory, Lead Acid batteries charge (in general) at about 10% capacity per hour. Depending on how full they are (slower towards full).

I fell for this as well, thinking my CTEK D250s + Smartpass would charge my batteries at 100A. In reality, I've never seen more than a 40A charge, which I now know is about right for my battery bank of 400Ah.

Most of the LifePO4 batteries I've been looking at can charge at 50% capacity. So in theory, with the right charger and an alternator powerful enough, I'd be able to charge my new 300Ah setup at up to 150A per hour. This is my main reason for choosing LifePO4.

 

[Lenny HB]

the EBL119 already operated at something like 40A when the engine was running.

The recommendation was to not bother (in the immediate term) and save my money & see how the EBL performed for a while - and a B"B could always be fitted at a later stage if required. I've not needed one yet.

The older EBL's like the 200 series did have B2B type circuitry built into them. As far as I know none of the modern ones do, they just have a split charge relay. But what German vans do have is the correct size cables and if the batteries are fairly flat and if it is an AGM or a Gel it will take 40 amps but it won't last for long as the battery takes a charge and the potential across the battery rises the charge rate will drop to about 8 amps, still a lot better than most vans with a split charge relay.

Just been helping out a neighbour with an electrical problem on his Autosleeper PVC, the size cables they use are a joke, he was not impressed when I suggested it would be better if he rewired the whole van.

 

[gerry mcg]

@Lenny HB
All I know is that @eddievanbitz got in touch with Uri at Schauldt to confirm how the EBL 119 worked prior to advising me that a Sterling 60A B2B would likely be unnecessary.

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[gerry mcg]

That being said, I don't know what EBL Schaudt have designed the the Schaudt WA121525 or WA121545 to work with.
Link Removed
Perhaps an email to Schaudt to clarify might be in order

My reading is the WA121545 is designed for vans with smart alternators

 

[Bart]

This could also be down to how fast your battery can charge. From memory, Lead Acid batteries charge (in general) at about 10% capacity per hour. Depending on how full they are (slower towards full).

I fell for this as well, thinking my CTEK D250s + Smartpass would charge my batteries at 100A. In reality, I've never seen more than a 40A charge, which I now know is about right for my battery bank of 400Ah.

Most of the LifePO4 batteries I've been looking at can charge at 50% capacity. So in theory, with the right charger and an alternator powerful enough, I'd be able to charge my new 300Ah setup at up to 150A per hour. This is my main reason for choosing LifePO4.

I would say this most likely is the case then as my batteries are just basic 110ah lead acid sealed batteries ( 3 off )
Wow how much did 300AH LifePO4 battery bank cost ya

 

[Lenny HB]

@Lenny HB
All I know is that @eddievanbitz got in touch with Uri at Schauldt to confirm how the EBL 119 worked prior to advising me that a Sterling 60A B2B would likely be unnecessary.

I'm not familarwith the 119 but the 99,101,29 & 30 just have a split charge relay.

That being said, I don't know what EBL Schaudt have designed the the Schaudt WA121525 or WA121545 to work with.
Link Removed
Perhaps an email to Schaudt to clarify might be in order

My reading is the WA121545 is designed for vans with smart alternators

I think Hymer fit those to Merc based vehicles, the Fiat Camper units don't appear to have a smart alternator.

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[gerry mcg]

I'm pretty certain my Euro6 Fiat Ducato PVC does not have a smart alternator. I get a steady alternator voltage (>14v something) when driving on the motorway at a steady throttle.

 

[Wissel]

Wow how much did 300AH LifePO4 battery bank cost ya

I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but think they are around £1600 including Bluetooth BMS from memory.

I'm going full-time and need the power

 

[Bart]

@Wissel wow i hope they are worth it for ya as that's a load of £££ , but yip i agree you will need a good set up for full timing, what type of inverter do you have that will eat your DC power ?

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[Wissel]

@Wissel wow i hope they are worth it for ya as that's a load of £££ , but yip i agree you will need a good set up for full timing, what type of inverter do you have that will eat your DC power ?

I don't think it's that bad tbh. It's around the equivalent of 600Ah in Lead Acid and 6 x 100Ah batteries would be, what, £800ish?

Then there's the space and weight saving (massive).

Not bought the inverter yet, but will be around 1500w Pure Sine.

My power usage is more from having 2 x laptop on all day and WiFi (I will be working from the van).

 

[tomm]

Many thanks everyone for contributing to this thread , a lot of good points raised , with plenty of suggestions which could possibly meet the requirements we are hoping to achieve.......Will be having discussions with a few well known and respected fitting companies and will let everyone know the outcome of any and all upgrades done.

 

[Infinity31]

Ablemail Electronics is worth a look. The range include B2B's with in built MPPT controllers.

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[Lenny HB]

@Lenny HB
All I know is that @eddievanbitz got in touch with Uri at Schauldt to confirm how the EBL 119 worked prior to advising me that a Sterling 60A B2B would likely be unnecessary.

If you email: Udo.LangATschaudt-gmbh.de he will email the manual on your EBL in English.

 

[gerry mcg]

If you email: Udo.LangATschaudt-gmbh.de he will email the manual on your EBL in English.

Ah yes..It was Udo, not Uri! I was close!
I have the EBL119 manual in English and IIRC it doesn't say anything about charging current when under alternator load but it did say charging current under 240v hookup was 16A or 18A if I recall correctly.
Eddie said he spoke specifically with Udo at Schaudt to establish the engine charging performance of the EBL 119 and Udo confirmed charging rates of up to 40-50A could be experienced.

Not withstanding this, I also have come across / recall the wisdom (eluded to earlier on this thread) that charging current should not exceed 10% of battery bank capacity, or it risks overheating and damaging the battery. In my case, with a 190Ah battery bank, I guess charging current should be limited to about 20A then.

 

[Lenny HB]

Ah yes..It was Udo, not Uri! I was close!
I have the EBL119 manual in English and IIRC it doesn't say anything about charging current when under alternator load but it did say charging current under 240v hookup was 16A or 18A if I recall correctly.
Eddie said he spoke specifically with Udo at Schaudt to establish the engine charging performance of the EBL 119 and Udo confirmed charging rates of up to 40-50A could be experienced.

Not withstanding this, I also have come across / recall the wisdom (eluded to earlier on this thread) that charging current should not exceed 10% of battery bank capacity, or it risks overheating and damaging the battery. In my case, with a 190Ah battery bank, I guess charging current should be limited to about 20A then.

I would email Udo and ask him for more detail on the engine charging it would be interesting to know.

As for charging rate it depends on the type of battery, the 10% rule is for the charger so it's not overloaded.

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[maxi77]

Ablemail Electronics is worth a look. The range include B2B's with in built MPPT controllers.

Good looking but how much and where do you buy them?

 

[barsteward]

Thank you for visiting our website. If you would like more information about any of our products or services, please get in touch. We would be happy to hear from you.

Ablemail Electronics
Merlyn House
Merlyn Rd
Salford
M6 6EL

TEL:+44 (0)161 745 7697
FAX: +44 (0)161 737 5615EMAIL: info@ablemail.co.uk
WEB:

 

[maxi77]

Thank you for visiting our website. If you would like more information about any of our products or services, please get in touch. We would be happy to hear from you.

Ablemail Electronics
Merlyn House
Merlyn Rd
Salford
M6 6EL

TEL:+44 (0)161 745 7697
FAX: +44 (0)161 737 5615EMAIL: info@ablemail.co.uk
WEB:

Put it another way what are they frightened to publicise about their prices and sales policy that they will not publish the info on their web site. Just like I avoid sites that harvest all your personal details to let you know their prices the bombard you with spam forever.

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[Bart]

[QUOTE="maxi77, post: 2575382, member: 25172" Just like I avoid sites that harvest all your personal details to let you know their prices the bombard you with spam forever.[/QUOTE]
+1
I hate such site and if i think this is the case i will just put in BS info and check it out first.

 

[Infinity31]

Good looking but how much and where do you buy them?

Thank you for visiting our website. If you would like more information about any of our products or services, please get in touch. We would be happy to hear from you.

Ablemail Electronics
Merlyn House
Merlyn Rd
Salford
M6 6EL

TEL:+44 (0)161 745 7697
FAX: +44 (0)161 737 5615EMAIL: info@ablemail.co.uk
WEB:

If you want more info how about phoning or send them an email? They also have an address to send a letter if that's your preference.

The EL 1230 30amp is £198.56 and the MPPT solar controller version is £219.50

 

[Infinity31]

Put it another way what are they frightened to publicise about their prices and sales policy that they will not publish the info on their web site. Just like I avoid sites that harvest all your personal details to let you know their prices the bombard you with spam forever.

I can't see anywhere on their site where they are trying to 'harvests all your personal details'

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