Wheel bolts keep coming loose. Wrong size ?

[SJA42]

I thought owning a MH / PVC was meant to be fun !
Having stressed about buying new wheels and tyres for a while I have finally gone an bought them.

I moved from 15" steel wheels to 16" alloys but that has just given me a new headache - wheel bolts.

The alloys came with a set of M14 / 1.5mm - 33mm long black wheel bolts (and locking bolts) and having fitted the wheels on with these new bolts they just don't seem to stay tight.

I have fitted them using a torque wrench, set to the 160nm recommended by the supplier, but after pottering up and down the road they become loose and need at least one crank of the wrench to get them back to torque.

I assume they are simply no good and I need to replace them very asap.

Apologies for not knowing the correct name for parts of the bolts but the thread length of the new black bolt does seem to be the same as the old silver ones however the chamfered "head" of the new black bolts is noticeable narrower. Is this the reason for the slackening off issue ?

See photos for size comparison - the new black bolts do seem to be a bit lost within the recess on the wheel.

Do I just need to buy bolts with an approx 28mm diameter "head" ?
I haven't tried putting all my old bolts back in yet but will do that before I move the van again (unless I get some new proper fitting ones first).

Thanks.

 

[funflair]

Did the new wheel sit tight onto the hub before you put the bolts in or was in a bit sloppy?

 

[vzac]

I belive on some wheels you need an insert around the inside of the wheel. To make a tight fit. This might be why the nuts are coming loose, as the wheel is loose on the hub.

 

[Lenny HB]

On Fiats the only difference between wheel bolts for alloy & steel wheels is the alloy ones are 2mm longer, the taper should be the same.
I think you have been supplied with the wrong bolts.

 

[SJA42]

Did the new wheel sit tight onto the hub before you put the bolts in or was in a bit sloppy?

I am certainly no expert but it didn’t feel odd or wrong to me.

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[gus-lopez]

think you have been supplied with the wrong bolts.

What Lenny said. Have you tried using the old bolts?

 

[2GB Racing]

The wheel should fit snuggle onto the hub if not a spigot ring is required to fit inside the wheel and over the hub, But it does sound like your wheel bolts maybe incorrect the taper needs to be correct for the seats on the wheels angle and length of taper etc.

 

[SJA42]

Thanks all.
Would anyone be kind enough to provide a link to what I should have so I can compare ?

Do the ones on this photo look any better ?

 

[SJA42]

What Lenny said. Have you tried using the old bolts?

Not yet that will be tomorrows job - but ultimately I would like some black ones (and black locking ones too).

 

[donkey]

Get back on to the people who supplied the wheels and studs and do not move the vehicle until sorted, it will quickly ruin the new wheels.

Geoff

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[TheTwoOfUs]

"I have fitted them using a torque wrench, set to the 160nm recommended by the supplier, but after pottering up and down the road they become loose and need at least one crank of the wrench to get them back to torque."

When you say they come loose is that finger tight? Or when you say the wrench needs at least one crank do you mean that the torque wrench clicks when you see if they need tightening? If they are the correct torque any subsequent use of the torque wrench will result in it clicking.

 

[dunnah01]

Sounds like you need longer bolts to ensure the same depth of thread engagement in the hub. Steel wheels are much thinner than alloys at the bolt holes so bolts would normally need to be about 10mm longer for alloys compared to steelies.

 

[SJA42]

"I have fitted them using a torque wrench, set to the 160nm recommended by the supplier, but after pottering up and down the road they become loose and need at least one crank of the wrench to get them back to torque."

When you say they come loose is that finger tight? Or when you say the wrench needs at least one crank do you mean that the torque wrench clicks when you see if they need tightening? If they are the correct torque any subsequent use of the torque wrench will result in it clicking.

I originally tightened them until the wrench made one click.

Then they come loose and it needs one tightening “pump” of the wrench (say moving from 2 o’clock to 5 o’clock position) until they feel tight and then I get the torque wrench click again.

 

[pappajohn]

Thanks all.
Would anyone be kind enough to provide a link to what I should have so I can compare ?

Do the ones on this photo look any better ?

The originals have a straight taper while the silver in the photo (and possibly the black) have a curved taper so the won't fit.
I'm sure the thread won't cause them to come loose but the extremely short taper could.....less friction surface.

 

[TheTwoOfUs]

I originally tightened them until the wrench made one click.

Then they come loose and it needs one tightening “pump” of the wrench (say moving from 2 o’clock to 5 o’clock position) until they feel tight and then I get the torque wrench click again.

I still think that the movement you are describing might be the natural take up of slack in the wrench and that the bolts are at their correct torque.

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[gus-lopez]

Try the old ones ,If no probleems then you need to get the same type & angle of taper .contact supplier & say the ones supplied ar not correct.

 

[NicM]

Try putting a marker line on all the bolts after you have toquered them up, then see if they have moved after use and see if they move if you re toque them.

 

[Larrynwin]

I originally tightened them until the wrench made one click.

Then they come loose and it needs one tightening “pump” of the wrench (say moving from 2 o’clock to 5 o’clock position) until they feel tight and then I get the torque wrench click again.

If you can’t get black studs could try these to cover silver studs , I have some on my wheel studs

 

[dunnah01]

It may also be worth measuring the new wheel centre bore to make sure it can fully seat against the wheel hub flange. If the wheel comes off easily then no problem, if its a bit stuck then centre bore may be too small.

 

[tacr2man]

Its appears that you don't have the tech knowledge to make a informed judgement on the situation you are dealing with , I suggest as this is a critical safety issue that you don't drive the vehicle anywhere , and get some one round suitably qualified to inspect . No offence intended .(really)

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[stevewagner]

Sounds like you need longer bolts to ensure the same depth of thread engagement in the hub. Steel wheels are much thinner than alloys at the bolt holes so bolts would normally need to be about 10mm longer for alloys compared to steelies.

That's not necessarily correct. I upgraded my steel wheels to manufacturer supplied alloy wheels and the bolts are exactly the same.

 

[GeoffnDee]

The black wheel retaining bolts do not look correct for the wheels ,but the silver ones do, try the original ones as gus-lopez has suggested and if they are ok and tighten correctly it will confirm that the wrong ones have been supplied. (may be 15" ones?)
My Peugeot van has a sticker on the the drivers door pillar which states 160nm for 15 inch wheels and 180nm for 16 inch wheels (I have standard factory 15 inch alloys fitted}
If you are still unsure you could take a wheel and one of each bolt size to a tyre fitting place and they should be able to confirm which is the correct ones to use. (or, if you have it, call out the RAC/AA for a wheel fitting problem)

 

[Sapper520]

I’ve been looking at two companies in Reading who supply these wheels / tyres. Both state no modifications are required when going from 15” steels to 16” Alloys.

 

[Googlebot]

It can be recommended to drive 50 miles then re-torque.

When you say they came loose, was it all of them? It may just be the bolts stretching as they are new.

Is it a decent torque wrench? 160nm is a fairly heavy load to torque up, did it feel like it took a bit of effort? If the torque wrench is buggered it could be just the fact they aren’t tight enough.

I would just spray the old ones black if you want a different colour after cleaning them up.

 

[Lenny HB]

My Peugeot van has a sticker on the the drivers door pillar which states 160nm for 15 inch wheels and 180nm for 16 inch wheels (I have standard factory 15 inch alloys fitted}

For 15" wheels it's 160nm for steel wheels and 140nm for alloy.
For 16" wheels it's 180nm for steel wheels and 160nm for alloy.

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[Sapper520]

On my car I can use the alloy wheel studs to secure my steel spare, but I can’t use the studs for steels on my alloys (think I’ve got that the right way round ).

If the previous wheels were steels, can you use the original wheel studs on alloys?

 

[poppycamper]

Oki Doki .. got my Kevlar vest and hard hat on ready for the fall out.
How many of us have a torque wrench.? . and how many know how too actually use it, CORRECTLY
How many use that lovely long 2ft bar to UNDO WHEEL NUTS. Big no no . They designed to tighten and torque NOT untighten and untorque.
How many of us have actually had there torque wrench calibrated?
Not many is my feeling.
I have engineering background I and been driving for 50 years and never yet lost a wheel or even had a loose one and have always tightened my own wheels without torque.
Dare I say ( flak jacket still on) that torque wrenchs are for today's inexperienced so-called technicians who don't know how to use proper tools.
They use battery nut runners to tighten/undo nuts/bolts and not spanners or sockets.. Christ they even now have ratchet ring spanners.. The mind really does boggle at what sort of engineers this world is now raising.
In my day you really did have a feel for how tight something was...EXPERIANCE WITHOUT A TORQUE WRENCH!!!

..

 

[funflair]

I know somebody else who changed steel wheels to alloy and the retailer sold him a generic wheel and spacer ring, the net effect was that the wheels never seated properly and eventually broke studs leaving one stuck in the hub, the retailer then supplied correctly sized wheels and all was OK.

 

[SJA42]

Its appears that you don't have the tech knowledge to make a informed judgement on the situation you are dealing with , I suggest as this is a critical safety issue that you don't drive the vehicle anywhere , and get some one round suitably qualified to inspect . No offence intended .(really)

No problem - no offence taken at all.

I was at least sensible enough to check them after only going down the road and back. I have changed a few wheels in my time and believed that having bought “matching” wheels and bolts and having provided spec. of my vehicle that I didn’t need to worry about the bolts other than fitting them properly and checking them relatively quickly.

As stated by Sapper520 , I have seen a few companies who appear to have sold plenty of these wheel/tyre sets and they claim no modification needed when going from 15” steel to 16” alloy - and several offer black bolts as a “bundled” option for cosmetic purposes.

A local tyre mechanic has seen both bolts and believes the original silver ones would be “much better”. I will put them on tomorrow and take great care to see how they go on and “feel”.
I do have a garage about 1/2k away that I can call upon on Monday.

Googlebot it is a Aldi middle aisle wrench especially bought for this task and fresh out of the box. I used a breaker bar to remove existing bolts and then only used the torque wrench for the final tightening having hand tightened the new bolts first so unless it was faulty when bought then I would assume it was fit for the job.

2 or 3 were noticeably loose on each front wheel and I think it was “just” one on the back.
I assume the turning of the front wheels exacerbated the fault.

 

[Jamesh]

Could it be the shiny finish just isn't providing enough friction either in the shoulder or in the threads?? Some loctite might help?