What's the max train weight for an 'A' frame Car?

[Spriddler]

My son (he has a C1 licence) has just bought a 2018 Chausson Welcome 530 on a Ford base. He wants to tow a car (e.g. Fiat 500, VW Up!, Smart etc.) but there are conflicting figures regarding the max weight and we can't work out the max weight for a towed car on an 'A' frame:

The V5 says:

Revenue weight: 3500kg
Max towable trailer weight (braked): 1000kg
Max towable trailer weight (un-braked): 750kg

But the ‘Certificate de conformity CE’ gives:

Technically permissible maximum laden mass: 3500kg
Technically permissible maximum mass: 4250kg
Technically permissible maximum mass of centre axle trailer: 1000kg
Technically permissible maximum mass of un-braked trailer: 750kg

 

[pappajohn]

He can tow a 1000kg braked trailer/car BUT according to the VIN plate that should be 1500kg.
The converter has obviously reduced the max trailer weight.
I wouldn't take much notice of the single axle part as even a twin axle is classed as a single if the front and rear wheel centers are less than 750mm (possibly 1mtr) apart.

I've never seen a twin axle TRAILER in the sense of a wheel at each corner being towed by anything other than a heavy truck or a farm tractor, certainly not a 3500kg van.

 

[Phill D]

looking at that photo of your plate.. my understanding is;
max laden 3500
max train weight 5000
max front axle 1850
max rear 2250

but if the CE and V5 say 1000kgs

then i believe you will be restricted to 1000 kgs

 

[Phill D]

sorry pappajohn beat me too it

 

[Badknee]

but there are conflicting figures regarding the max weight and we can't work out the max weight for a towed car on an 'A' frame:

The V5 says:


But the ‘Certificate de conformity CE’ gives:


View attachment 349303

You ask “for a car towed on an A frame” I don’t think it’s anything to do with an A frame. It states a braked trailer and an unbraked trailer. If the brakes work on the car being towed it seems to be 1000kg and if they don’t 750kg

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[Spriddler]

Ta.
We wondered if the figures referred to a centre axle trailer rather than a towed 4-wheel car which presumably would put less weight on the towbar/rear axle.
Strangely his Audi car is much lighter (gross mass) than the m/h but has a much greater towed trailer allowance (approx. 80% of the car weight).

 

[Spriddler]

looking at that photo of your plate.. my understanding is;
max laden 3500
max train weight 5000
max front axle 1850
max rear 2250

but if the CE and V5 say 1000kgs

then i believe you will be restricted to 1000 kgs

Yes, that's exactly what caused us to wonder if we could have the V5 amended to reflect the manufacturer's 1500kg allowance.

 

[TerryL]

The apparent reduction of max train weight might be due to the converter using chassis rail extensions to which a tow bar would be fitted. I'd have a word with the manufacturer/converter.

 

[pappajohn]

You ask “for a car towed on an A frame” I don’t think it’s anything to do with an A frame. It states a braked trailer and an unbraked trailer. If the brakes work on the car being towed it seems to be 1000kg and if they don’t 750kg

If the cars brakes don't work you can't tow it no matter how little it weighs
If brakes are fitted, even to a 450kg garden trailer, they have to work and meet regulations.

 

[pappajohn]

If the car weighs 1000kg or less (which it will) including the A frame then he can tow it.
He can even carry camping stuff in it so long as it doesn't exceed 1000kg.in total.

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[Phill D]

thae photo shows the vehicle weight plate is there a converters plate also fitted ( mine has both ) and the converters plate on mine shows slightly different weights as to down plate to 3500.

 

[Spriddler]

thae photo shows the vehicle weight plate is there a converters plate also fitted ( mine has both ) and the converters plate on mine shows slightly different weights as to down plate to 3500.

I suggested that to him and he's had a good look but can't find a converter's plate.
His original hope was to tow his wife's new Mazda MX5 which they will keep anyway but it looks as though he'll have to buy another lighter car just to tow behind the m/h. It's a shame as they'll have three cars, the m/h and my son's two m/bikes. His missus doesn't like riding pillion even though he towed a 3 wheel MP3 on a trailer for 3 months last year behind his previous m/h when they toured Europe. Luckily they've room to park them all at home.

 

[pappajohn]

His original hope was to tow his wife's new Mazda MX5

Depending on model the Unladen weight (full fuel tank) is 1001kg to 1200kg.
The lightest one you could tow with ½ tank of fuel.

 

[Spriddler]

The lightest one you could tow with ½ tank of fuel.

That wouldn't be a problem. She's a bit scatty and tends to drive on fresh air most of the time unless reminded by my son to fill it up .

I don't know the weight offhand but it's a convertible and I think heavier than the saloon due to the sophisticated operating system; motor, gearbox, folding/hinged rods and hoops etc. When being deployed/stowed it looks like a living thing - one of those 'Transformer' kids' toys.

 

[Phill D]

FYI my converters plate is right next to the chassis manufacturers plate

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[the1andonly]

Recently talked to a guy who had bought a mx5 to tow but couldnt find anyone to fit an A frame to that particular model. Might be aload of xxxx but thats what i wus told ko.

 

[Deneb]

thae photo shows the vehicle weight plate is there a converters plate also fitted ( mine has both ) and the converters plate on mine shows slightly different weights as to down plate to 3500.

Looks like the plate in the photo is the converter's plate. It's issued by Trigano and states Stage 2 (Etape 2). It's not the original Ford plate.

 

[tacr2man]

The discrepancy may be down to difference between CE Con cert specifying centre axle trailer limit of 1000kg
and the vin plate not making this specific limit just a train weight of 5000kg . this would be logical due to a centre axle trailer imposing much higher pitching load on the towbar , whereas a drawbar trailer would not do this. The vehicle then being registered in UK may have had the 1000kg entered on the V5 rather than build plate 1500kg train weight when at mam of the tow vehicle .

 

[Spriddler]

Recently talked to a guy who had bought a mx5 to tow but couldnt find anyone to fit an A frame to that particular model. Might be aload of xxxx but thats what i wus told ko.

Yep, my son has now had fitting an 'A' frame to the MX5 declined by all he contacted.

 

[pappajohn]

Yep, my son has now had fitting an 'A' frame to the MX5 declined by all he contacted.

Looking at some pics on Google it appears there is no chassis box section forward of the front strut at low level.
The front chassis rails are almost as high as the front wheels.
Fixing an A frame at the height of the chassis at the front will cause major problems braking.

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[Cheshirecat57]

Just a point, licence C1 has nothing to do with trailer

He will need C1E or BE to tow any trailer over 750kg behind a MoHo

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Yep, my son has now had fitting an 'A' frame to the MX5 declined by all he contacted.

Do the brakes work when towing, if so how?

 

[poacher]

Over-run brakes - same as caravan

Ensure Alko over-run attachment is correct size for towed item (had to change ours when car changed - same towbar, different overrun fitting)

 

[Spriddler]

Over-run brakes - same as caravan

Ensure Alko over-run attachment is correct size for towed item (had to change ours when car changed - same towbar, different overrun fitting)

Yebbut, surely a caravan has a simple mechanical overrun cable brake which is far simpler to connect up than the hydraulics on a car........?

 

[poacher]

Yebbut, surely a caravan has a simple mechanical overrun cable brake which is far simpler to connect up than the hydraulics on a car........?

I clearly posted in error, sorry

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[Spriddler]

I clearly posted in error, sorry

Au contraire; I would like to know as it was just my assumption. I don't know how they connect 'A' frames to the car's brakes. It must be quite sophisticated to be compatible with today's cars' ABS, Traction control, power steering etc.

 

[gus-lopez]

Over-run brakes - same as caravan

Ensure Alko over-run attachment is correct size for towed item (had to change ours when car changed - same towbar, different overrun fitting)

requires an electric system to operate the vehicles brakes

Au contraire; I would like to know as it was just my assumption. I don't know how they connect 'A' frames to the car's brakes. It must be quite sophisticated to be compatible with today's cars' ABS, Traction control, power steering etc.

As above.

 

[Sasbo]

Is the Chausson 530 automatic or manual?

I preferred the Ford base chassis but after discussion with the dealer regarding towing capacity went for the Fiat base chassis as it was Ford automatic gearbox that was limiting factor when it came to towing capacity.

 

[Badknee]

Recently talked to a guy who had bought a mx5 to tow but couldnt find anyone to fit an A frame to that particular model. Might be aload of xxxx but thats what i wus told ko.

No, I was told that too. I’ve decided on a trailer for it.

 

[Spriddler]

Is the Chausson 530 automatic or manual?

I preferred the Ford base chassis but after discussion with the dealer regarding towing capacity went for the Fiat base chassis as it was Ford automatic gearbox that was limiting factor when it came to towing capacity.

That could be the reason; my son's 530 is an automatic............