What's happened to....... (1 Viewer)

[joner8888]

I wish i could speak French--- too old too learn now :Sad:

 

[tofo]

9 out of 10 for you young man, Grammar not Grammer.

Rob

see told you could do better
:Blush::Blush:

 

[joner8888]

I was always (still am) hopeless at spelling, and any connection with the written word.
I would never have had time to right letters , never listened at school ,i just ran after girls (still do ) everyday.

These modern forums ,where i can sometimes check a spelling and knowing that the people who may read what i sciribble here , are probably very articulate and precise in the English language.

Have kids/still run a buisness/own house--all the usuall things i find simple .

This however does make me, make an effort, as i have to think before i type, instead of blurting any old tripe out
So as time goes by, i like to think a computer is slowly bringing me up to the 11 + grade at least !:thumb:

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[slobadoberbob]

define professional JJ

Again... very dangerous ground here Craig...

My father use to send the letters I wrote to him from school back to me with the spelling and grammar corrected!

Something must have stuck because I wince and groan (just as he must have done) when I see all the glaring errors (many by me) on this site especially when they are made by qualified, professional people...

BUT

...any criticism of Funsters' spelling or grammar will just reduce the chances of people posting, especially if they are worried about making mistakes, when we should be doing the opposite and encouraging them to relate their experiences or ask for and offer help...

I believe the Darkside used to worry and comment on posters' bad spelling etc... :Sad:

I say Kick Spelling And Grammar Criticism Out Of Fun

Obviously right wing posts, anti Europe, homophobic, racist, sexist, anti Man City, anti tinned pies posts and the like are another matter and should be stamped on quickly and firmly...

Good (late) morning from sunny (again) Portugal...

JJ :Cool:

PS. My Spanish/Portuguese bank has not gone bust yet and is still giving me cash from machines in the wall... :thumb:

Define professional JJ ... if I want to write a legal letter I would send the communication to the typing pool or have a secretary do the letter. I expect to use my knowledge from university, law school and practice to produce the beans... Let those that are paid to do the writing do it. I write fast often and forget to read what I say.. the apple (especially the IPAD) does it's own thing some times.. but most functors (is that a word?) understand what i am saying. I write on here as I want and I just hate it when you get someone that wants to pick you up on how you say it or use the wrong spelling of a word. It does not mean I do not understand the difference, just means I have let the fingers do the work rather then always letting the brain.

I do not have a problem with American words creeping in to the English way of life ... same as I often use or hear Australian or South African words.... At least I understand them and do not have to ask Frankie or others to tell me what the words mean... now have purchased 5 more of those egg things.. work a treat. (or work as intended , or work well) .. but treat does the same as the other words in the brackets. Same as words from Jamaica .. 'no problem man' .. take films, the number of words or sayings that have now become part of every day life. does that make them bad? not in my books... as long as I understand them and if I am writing or talking to someone and they understand that is fine with me. The fact that "have" is not used within a set of words does not destroy the meanings.

If I personally wanted to be 'professional' non of you would understand me, except perhaps Treacle ... then legal speak is a language of its own.

I understand (most of the time, except when JJ goes on about football) what he is saying. I do not look for the inner meaning (doubt I have enough days in my life left for that)...


I just hate the gammer police, as bad as the fashion police.

Bob:Blush:

 

[slobadoberbob]

I thought on the IOM they spoke TT

I live where the English language is spoken, so, I speak, and write English. It is the uneducated ones that should face the facts, and learn to speak and write correct English.

Craig

I thought on the IOM they spoke TT

In the part of London I grew up .. the east end of London we spoke rhyming slang... as far as I know in my childhood days there were few foreigners there that I knew of. So we grew up with what was the common language of the area of London.. does that make it English or not?

does not make those that use it uneducated.

Bob

 

[JJ]

Define professional JJ ...


I understand (most of the time, except when JJ goes on about football) what he is saying. I do not look for the inner meaning (doubt I have enough days in my life left for that)...


I just hate the gammer police, as bad as the fashion police.

Bob:Blush:

????????????????

What have I done?


JJ :Cool:

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[slobadoberbob]

so how does this stack up then

Well I'm old-fashioned too and can't stand bad grammar. I'm always telling my granddaughters that people will form an opinion based upon the way they speak. It is always worth making the effort to speak properly.

I also hate 'guys' but like 'chaps'. I really hate this new thing where people on television will speak well but drop the double 't', as in si'ing instead of sitting; and what about litool instead of little? Grrrrrrr! I need to 'get a life'. Grrrrr!

Ivy

In my days of attending police stations to represent a person detained. I would be referred to ... you brief is here or police would be called plod, rosser, pig, flith,... conversations would be about my client .. plod has fitted me up, honest guv. so what should I do.. say sorry sir, until you speak english I cannot take your instructions.. of course not. Everyone is different. I have had to deal with many an unsavoury person over the years. But was he any less than me? because he could not string a sentence together? no way.. as long as I can understand someone, then that is fine.. his views of police officers had little bearing on the representation as I would have to explain to the beak (read magistrate) that my fellow (client) was not guilty of the crime and it was a mistake that the officer had made proper.

Now who in honesty could not understand what I have just written?

Bob:Blush:

 

[JJ]

Bob... I am not aware of anyone saying they can't understand you...

JJ :Cool:

 

[Loujess]

I thought on the IOM they spoke TT

In the part of London I grew up .. the east end of London we spoke rhyming slang... as far as I know in my childhood days there were few foreigners there that I knew of. So we grew up with what was the common language of the area of London.. does that make it English or not?

does not make those that use it uneducated.

Bob

I just don't get the point of rhyming slang. If someone is going up the 'apples' I would suspect they mean scrumping, or if they needed their 'syrup', I would believe it was a dietary requirement. At the end of the day (I always say thatoh, stairs has one syllable and apples two so why waste time and effort?

Ivy

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[slobadoberbob]

my wife for one

Bob... I am not aware of anyone saying they can't understand you...

JJ :Cool:

JJ... Sue for one.


Bob:Blush:

 

[Spacerunner]

All languages are dynamic and our younger generation are leading the movement.
I wonder what Will Shakespeare would have thought of the English used by, for instance, football match commentators.

 

[slobadoberbob]

it was the norm in the East End

I just don't get the point of rhyming slang. If someone is going up the 'apples' I would suspect they mean scrumping, or if they needed their 'syrup', I would believe it was a dietary requirement. At the end of the day (I always say thatoh, stairs has one syllable and apples two so why waste time and effort?

Ivy

Ivy it was the norm in the East End.. it allow like mind / class of people to communicate and often exclude others from the conversation. While it was in use when I was a boy I like most people used the normal words of everyday middle England.. but words like Apples and Pears still creep in from time to time ... it was not a case of being easier or harder to use.. it was just used.

Bob

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[Chris]

Often though it is not development of the language, more bastardising the language.

A big gang of white youths of 13-14 years of age hang round our local shops. To hear them talk you would think you were in Jamaica or somewhere. "Yo Bro wickid innit" muttered from the mouth of a spotty kid with trousers round his ankles always makes me smile, and pity.

 

[slobadoberbob]

if you had the long baggy trousers

Often though it is not development of the language, more bastardising the language.

A big gang of white youths of 13-14 years of age hang round our local shops. To hear them talk you would think you were in Jamaica or somewhere. "Yo Bro wickid innit" muttered from the mouth of a spotty kid with trousers round his ankles always makes me smile, and pity.

Treacle my man, if you were to get a pair of those baggy trousers that show half your bum.. a tea pot cover for your head in the colours of the national flag of Jamaica .. you might understand them Bro... now no dissing them....


Bob

 

[Chris]

Treacle my man, if you were to get a pair of those baggy trousers that show half your bum.. a tea pot cover for your head in the colours of the national flag of Jamaica .. you might understand them Bro... now no dissing them....


Bob

Respect, Bruv

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[callumwa]

All languages are dynamic and our younger generation are leading the movement.
[HI]I wonder what Will Shakespeare would have thought of the English used by, for instance, football match commentators[/HI].

Looking at it in another way.....

I wonder what would the scribes who wrote Magna carta would think of the language used by Will Shakespeare. Magna Carta was written in Latin, the official written language of the day in 1215, however the spoken language was middle English

Early Middle English was the language of the 12th and 13th centuries. Middle English was fully developed as a literary language by the second half of the 14th century. Late Middle English and the transition to Early Modern English took place from the early 15th century and is taken to have been complete by the beginning of the Tudor period in 1485.

Shakespeare fits officially into the ‘modern’ category'. His language is what is called Early Modern English.

Now the next bit of course I have "copied and pasted" ....(modern English terms perhaps?)



Old English is a completely different thing. Look at the following passage in Old English and try and read it:

‘Fæder ure þuþe eart on heofonum
si þin nama gehalgod tobecume þin rice gewurþe þin willa on eorðan swa swa on heofonum
urne gedæghwamlican hlaf syle us to dæg
and forgyf us ure gyltas swa swa we forgyfað urum gyltendum
and ne gelæd þu us on costnunge ac alys us of yfele soþlice.’

Do you recognise it? If not, try this one:

‘Oure fadir þat art in heuenes halwid be þi name;
þi reume or kyngdom come to be. Be þi wille don in herþe as it is dounin heuene.
yeue to us today oure eche dayes bred.
And foryeue to us oure dettis þat is oure synnys as we foryeuen to oure dettouris þat is to men þat han synned in us.
And lede us not into temptacion but delyuere us from euyl.’

Easier, and perhaps you recognise it now, but only just? Look at the next one:

‘Our father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts as we forgive our debters.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.’




So if you are still awake....... What is "Proper English"?

all of them are of course..... in their day.....:thumb::thumb::thumb:

I love our language...

 

[tick59]

Looking at it in another way.....

I wonder what would the scribes who wrote Magna carta would think of the language used by Will Shakespeare. Magna Carta was written in Latin, the official written language of the day in 1215, however the spoken language was middle English

Early Middle English was the language of the 12th and 13th centuries. Middle English was fully developed as a literary language by the second half of the 14th century. Late Middle English and the transition to Early Modern English took place from the early 15th century and is taken to have been complete by the beginning of the Tudor period in 1485.

Shakespeare fits officially into the ‘modern’ category'. His language is what is called Early Modern English.

Now the next bit of course I have "copied and pasted" ....(modern English terms perhaps?)



Old English is a completely different thing. Look at the following passage in Old English and try and read it:

‘Fæder ure þuþe eart on heofonum
si þin nama gehalgod tobecume þin rice gewurþe þin willa on eorðan swa swa on heofonum
urne gedæghwamlican hlaf syle us to dæg
and forgyf us ure gyltas swa swa we forgyfað urum gyltendum
and ne gelæd þu us on costnunge ac alys us of yfele soþlice.’

Do you recognise it? If not, try this one:

‘Oure fadir þat art in heuenes halwid be þi name;
þi reume or kyngdom come to be. Be þi wille don in herþe as it is dounin heuene.
yeue to us today oure eche dayes bred.
And foryeue to us oure dettis þat is oure synnys as we foryeuen to oure dettouris þat is to men þat han synned in us.
And lede us not into temptacion but delyuere us from euyl.’

Easier, and perhaps you recognise it now, but only just? Look at the next one:

‘Our father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts as we forgive our debters.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.’




So if you are still awake....... What is "Proper English"?

all of them are of course..... in their day.....:thumb::thumb::thumb:

I love our language...

Well a divin't na wat al the fuss in s aboot a tak proper english.Sometimes wen some of ye lot post on here a divin't na wat ya takin aboot????????

 

[MHVirgins]

On Countdown one day last week Nick Hewer was having a moan about a similar thing. He was explaining how he hated to hear nouns being used as verbs.......eg "the president was helicoptered across.........", he then went on to say he was in a restaurant and the waitress came up to him and asked, "Have you menued yet"?:Angry:

I think he said he asked her to explain and then smacked her

My pet hate is when people say, "I'm sat in my car at the moment"!
Whatever happened to the past tense?

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[MHVirgins]

I wish i could speak French--- too old too learn now :Sad:

No, you're never too old:thumb:

 

[pappajohn]

I think its more a dialect thing rather than becoming an obscure word.

I've notice a few members do use the word 'of' instead of 'have' but i know what they mean due to the context of the sentence.
another favourite is 'been as' instead of 'being as' or 'seen as' instead of 'seeing as'

just the way folks speak and as Jim said....as long as you understand what is meant it doesn't matter.

I always (!) use the correct spelling when written but not when spoken..... I would say 'would 'ave/could 'ave'....no 'aitch'
If I'm writing an official letter and I'm not sure of spelling I simply enter the word, as I would write it, in a search engine.

The worst place for illiteracy is eBay....I often wonder if some sellers ever went to school

 

[MHVirgins]

We get annoyed to hear people talking about "wales" when they actually mean "whales"! I end up shouting at the tv saying, Wales is a country my dear!! Oh and I "fink" is another pet hate!:Blush:

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[jhorsf]

axe me l8tr mate

 

[pappajohn]

I didn't go to grammer school Secondary modern for me

Was in the c stream for all lessons
Read that as near dunces class level


Since then I have managed 43 years unbroken service
Gained city and guilds and a nvq in assessing
Bought and paid for our house
Mrs t never had to go to work in 38 years marriage
Two well adjusted kids
Both good jobs
One even has letters after her name

All with my poor knowledge of English language
Spelling and punctuation
And I apologise to no one for it
Sorry if I upset

my reports always said could do better

But I did better enough


Sorry rant over:thumb::thumb::Blush:

​

My school report usually consisted of just one sentence.......

"you sent him back again this year... didn't you !!!!"

 

[pappajohn]

axe me l8tr mate

Now that is one that really gets up my nose.....why is it so difficult to say or write 'ask'

if anyone says it to me i ask if they are a 'Itinerant' as it seems very common in the Gypsy community.

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[pappajohn]

We get annoyed to hear people talking about "wales" when they actually mean "whales"! I end up shouting at the tv saying, Wales is a country my dear!! Oh and I "fink" is another pet hate!:Blush:

Agreed, that is just lazy.
other 'regional' words like marra (whats the matter?), summat (something) or nowt (nothing) are acceptable to most, but to miss out letters (usually a T), or in this case to change a letter, is unacceptable and unnecessary.

 

[simsy56]

Well, all this started with my observation of my son in law, saying, "I should of".
A highly educated person, and currently in a top job with the government, (our government, not yours).
It just puzzled me as to why this phrase has become the 'norm'.
I have dealt with lesser educated people, during my term as a prison officer, and these uneducated morons, know no difference. That's how they were brought up. 'Ya know what i mean'? Fick as two short planks.
It is the intelligent, educated people that should know the correct way to write and speak, yet fail to do so.
I can communicate with all sorts of people.
I understand Cockney rhyming slang, me old china, nice dolly pegs, shame about the boat race, etc;
I understand a likka rasta, we lik a ramgoat down by de rownabowt, it should a dead mek we buy a pown a rice, etc;

Gadzooks! Methinks 'tis time for respite.

Craig

 

[motor roamin]

Well I guess I am lucky guys, I am multi lingual......having lived in the USA I speak American.......having friends in the deep south I speak redneck.........me ole man was a lundener so I speak lunden.......I have grand kids this alows me to learn grunt, scream, and text (depending which age they happen to be) I have lived in Devon so I can speak Devonian......I went out with a girl from er shall we say the north west........now I never understood her but at 17 I couldn't care less so you see I am multi lingual.......dus that mek me clever or wot :thumb:

All the best Rick

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[JayDee]

Which point in time should we use as a reference for keeping the "English language as it has always been"?

Was it the "English" language from before William the Conqueror popped over to stay with us, or should it be the "English" language of Tudor times. Perhaps we should speak "English" as the Victorians did.

That's precisely why English cannot be "as it always has been" because it 'has always been" changing!

It evolves, it is a living thing, like all languages. Modern English has evolved from so many languages. Words develop and change with the times, as do the people.

Frequently here on FUN we talk of "Motorhomes", but should we not be actually talking of about our "Motor caravans" or perhaps our "Horseless carriage dwelling places"?

Every year many new words are added to the OED. Why, because English is alive and kicking, changing through time, and all the better for it in my humble opinion. :thumb:

This links with a discussion some friends and I were having a few weeks ago.

It was suggested that the OED is the standard by which correct English is measured - for instance in legal documents the use of the language is crucial as decisions are made based on what the legal meaning is understood to be - and over the decades these definitions and usages change, as does the spelling, to refelect what has, over that period, become the new established meaning. If the dictionary definitions alter to reflect transient fashion then there is no solid ground.
It was also suggested that the OED should represent common usage and even current vernacular. But where does that lead to when accuracy of meaning is required.
As you can imagine this led to quite an interesting exchange of views.
A sentence springs to mind that makes a good example of the contradiction:-
"Oh that's wicked!"
By one understanding something thoroughly unpleasant has been observed.
By another understanding something very exciting and attractive has been observed.
So the point that we were discussing was, largely, what should be the role of the OED? Defining the standard or fashion guru?

But on this forum none of it really matters. If a post isn't understood it's quite likly to get "Eh?" as a reponse.


John

 

[JJ]

Eh?

JJ :Cool:

 

[Wildman]

sie haben ist gut.

Language is a living thing constantly evolving, if it were not we would all be conversing in French, Danish, Dutch, German, etc. Whilst I agree it is annoying to see the language dismembered and abused the way youngsters seem fit to use it; that is the way it has always been since the year dot. Lets face it we could all still be speaking Welsh

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