What's an Electrician.

Jan 16, 2014
801
2,746
Harleston, Norfolk
Funster No
29,717
MH
C Class, Autotrail Scout
Exp
Oct, 2013
To clarify matters, I have HNC Electrical and Electronics Engineering. I wish to install a fused spur in my house. Am I qualified to do it legally, who can I 'phone, write to, or just ask?

This is really irritating me, help to clarify matters would be more than appreciated.

I can supply a 'Dawn exemption certificate' ::bigsmile: for 1 month for a proper answer.
 

scotjimland

Free Member
Jul 25, 2007
32,019
29,509
.
Funster No
15
MH
.
Exp
.
There is no statutory requirement to be electrically qualified to do electrical work in your own home ..

You can do your own electrical work if you are competent to do so. Simple tasks such as wiring a plug are within the grasp of many people but more complex tasks, such as modifying an electrical installation, may not be.

Read more
 
Last edited:

joner8888

Free Member
Jan 4, 2012
2,187
1,974
somerset
Funster No
19,320
MH
Fiat Ducato
Exp
A few years now
Always do my own wiring.
As long as the loads- cables- ect are researched into first , i enjoy doing it.
I hate plumbing though;)
 
Jul 5, 2013
7,463
5,660
Tunbridge Wells
Funster No
26,797
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2013
I am now totally confused (yet again).

I thought that you had to notify the local authority Building Control people before carrying out certain works in the home. I also thought that such works have to be signed off by an approved person or building control. None of this is mentioned in the HSE guidance Jim linked to, which only appears to deal with the safety of doing the work, rather than the safety of the finished product. If that is correct then it is very misleading.

I thought all work in bathrooms, kitchens and outside, and work elsewhere if it involved a new circuit was all notifiable. The link given by Gizmouk suggests that in no longer applies to kitchens, but there is no mention of work outside of the house (garden, shed or garage). So is that notifiable?

Am I right to assume that a new spur (fused or not) is not a new circuit and is therefore only notifiable if it is within certain parts of a bathroom??

So can I install a new light on the outside of my garage by spurring off the garage's existing lighting circuit without notifying?
 
D

Deleted member 29692

Deleted User
You can carry minor work that is limited to modifying an existing circuit yourself as long as it is not in your kitchen, bathroom, or outdoors. If the work is in any of these areas or requires the addition of a new circuit then the work must be notified to your local authority building control. This is set down in Part P of the Building Regulations which are statutory. Electricians can register with an approved body of which there are several to self certify their own work and notify the job to building control.

In theory Part P makes a provision for you to do the work yourself and ask (pay) your local building control to come and inspect it and issue a certificate if it is satisfactory. In practice no local authority that I'm aware of is set up for or interested in this. They will tell you to get the work inspected by a registered electrician. Within 12 months of this being introduced (2009 if I remember correctly) registered electricians were told in no uncertain terms that we could under no circumstances issue certificates for anyone else's work however good it may be.

Anyone can ignore this at their own risk, in the same way that you can ignore the requirement for gas work to be carried out by a registered engineer if you choose to. The problem that you will encounter (and I have lost count of the number of conversations I've had with frantic customers over this) is that when you come to sell your house if/when the survey picks up that you have had recent electrical work done you will be asked for a certificate. If you can't produce one it can hold up or even wreck the sale.

EDIT: I've been out of the industry for 18 months so if any of the above has changed significantly since then I am happy to be corrected. Prior to my lucky escape I spent the entire time since Part P was introduced as the responsible person for the company I worked for so the above is based on that experience.
 

canopus

LIFE MEMBER
Nov 27, 2010
5,037
5,293
rural Lincolnshire
Funster No
14,552
MH
Concorde Concerto A Class
Exp
Since 2010
I too have an HNC in Electrical Engineering and when we looked into to re-wiring our current home, we decided it was easier to employ a local electrician than jump through all the hoops with local authority and third party authorisations. (I laboured for him to keep the price down).

Once completed, the installation was tested and NICEIC certified by the installer.

One thing which was prevalent at the time was the home owners check list if/when selling a property. We took the view that once you have the correct certification, prospective buyers can't pick holes or demand reductions.

On another note, I am currently battling with a Local Authority and have appealed to the Planning Inspectorate regarding a 12x8 foot shed on a piece of land we own. The shed is to house a ride on mower for a field which is 0.3 of a hectare. The LCC reckon the field doesn't warrant a ride on mower and I should carry a petrol hand mower 38 miles in my car every time it needs cutting. - I did yesterday as I couldn't start the ride on and it took me just shy of 7 hours. If you saw the reams of paperwork we have filled in and sent off you would laugh. I reckon I should have told them I was Muslim and it was a Prayer Hut and Id have been sorted.:mad::mad::mad:
 
Jul 5, 2013
7,463
5,660
Tunbridge Wells
Funster No
26,797
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2013
NicNic, - look at the links posted by others. The regs appear to have changed last year, and now only mention bathrooms, new circuit or replacing a consumer unit as needing notifying. There is no mention that Kitchens or outdoors need notifying. This appears to be confirmed in the information in this link.

The article on the changed regs stated that kitchens had been removed from the requirement to notify, but did not mention that outdoor work had, although there is now no mention of it for notifying. Hence my first question.

But what constitutes a "circuit"? Is a spur a circuit in its own right or not?
 

scotjimland

Free Member
Jul 25, 2007
32,019
29,509
.
Funster No
15
MH
.
Exp
.
I'm getting too old for these new regs ..

Been doing electrical work for nigh on 50 years,.. Five years electrical maintenance apprenticeship at India Tyres,, City and Guilds Technicians Cert. and an HNC .. Stow College Glasgow

Been a maintenance spark all my life.. Worked down gold mines in RSA, off shore oil platforms in the N Sea, coal, oil and nuclear power stations, Shell oil refinery, and finally as a project manager converting warehouses into large new cold storage facilities.. and as far as I am aware never killed anyone..

Now with no part P I'm unqualified.. not allowed to wire up a shed.. just a useless old farte ... experience means not a jot ...put me out to pasture.. :rolleyes:
 
D

Deleted member 29692

Deleted User
NicNic, - look at the links posted by others. The regs appear to have changed last year, and now only mention bathrooms, new circuit or replacing a consumer unit as needing notifying. There is no mention that Kitchens or outdoors need notifying. This appears to be confirmed in the information in this link.

The article on the changed regs stated that kitchens had been removed from the requirement to notify, but did not mention that outdoor work had, although there is now no mention of it for notifying. Hence my first question.

But what constitutes a "circuit"? Is a spur a circuit in its own right or not?
I did say I had been out of it for 18 months :whistle:

No, a circuit is run directly from the consumer unit. A spur is taken from an existing point on an existing circuit
 

vwalan

Funster
Sep 23, 2008
8,666
5,110
roche cornwall
Funster No
4,148
MH
lynton5th wheel
Exp
since a child
might be sending you back up and over the border soon . ha ha .
you might be a is supporter . independant scotland .
its going world wide now . ha ha .
 
OP
Mike B
Jan 16, 2014
801
2,746
Harleston, Norfolk
Funster No
29,717
MH
C Class, Autotrail Scout
Exp
Oct, 2013
I'm getting too old for these new regs ..

Been doing electrical work for nigh on 50 years,.. Five years electrical maintenance apprenticeship at India Tyres,, City and Guilds Technicians Cert. and an HNC .. Stow College Glasgow

Been a maintenance spark all my life.. Worked down gold mines in RSA, off shore oil platforms in the N Sea, coal, oil and nuclear power stations, Shell oil refinery, and finally as a project manager converting warehouses into large new cold storage facilities.. and as far as I am aware never killed anyone..

Now with no part P I'm unqualified.. not allowed to wire up a shed.. just a useless old farte ... experience means not a jot ...put me out to pasture.. :rolleyes:
QUALIFICATIONS
HNC -Electrical & Electronic Engineering Principles
-Electronic Engineering
-Electronic Digital Computers
City & Guilds -Telecommunications 272 (Part IV)
-Marine Radar & Radio 292 (Part III)
-Information Technology 726
Royal Navy -Trade certificate

ATE Programming -Membrain 7760
-Zehntel 810
DTI -Radar Certificate
Decca Survey Equipment -Trade Certificates
Varian -Course’s in High & Low energy Clinaccs, MLC, Portal Vision and Acuity


CAREER HISTORY
1996 - 2011 Norfolk & Norwich NHS University Hospital
Linacc Engineer MTO4 – Responsible for the maintenance and repair of Radiotherapy Linear accelerators and associated electrical & electronic equipment.

1995 – 96 Bio-Plus (sewage Treatment)
Three month work trial experience as Office & Workshop Manager in a small company manufacturing GRP
Sewage Treatment Plants.

1992 – 93 De Havilland College

City & Guilds 726 computer programming course in Cobol, Dbase III, Lotus 123, Health and safety

1990 – 92 C.I.S.S. (Building & Installation)

Installation Manager – Responsible for the installation, maintenance and repair of data network cabling teams.

1989-90 Dataserv (Third party computer maintenance)


Workshop Manager – Responsible for the running of the computer repair workshop.


1979-89 Logica Ltd (Computer Programming)


Head of materials management (& Head of Test Department) – Responsible for the procurement department & Test department.

1979-85 Head of Test – Responsible for the testing of all in house built computer products.

1977-79 Self employed hydrographic survey engineer

1975-77 Decca survey – Hydrographic survey engineer

1972-75 South London technical collage – Radio Officer Merchant Navy

1972-72 Decca Radar- Test engineer

1964-72 Royal Navy – Petty Officer Radio Electrician

And like you Jim, it seems That I can't legally put a bl**dy socket in. :madder:
 
Jul 5, 2013
7,463
5,660
Tunbridge Wells
Funster No
26,797
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2013
No, a circuit is run directly from the consumer unit. A spur is taken from an existing point on an existing circuit
That's what I always thought but we are talking about the law here not common sense!

Still plenty you can do without notifying or certifying I think. Anyway as long as you saved some of the old coloured wiring whose to know what is old and new? Got plenty of the 1.5mm left yet so OK for lighting.
 
Nov 6, 2013
1,154
2,002
S. Ayrshire
Funster No
28,914
MH
The usual
Exp
Since the beginning
I'm similar to ScotJimland
By job I design, manage and deliver Data Centre power upgrades - and have 25 years experience. I work live up to 11KV, and am an Authorised Person. I'm authorised to work in and around 132KV primary substations. I have more than a few electrical qualifications including C&G2391 Test & Inspection - which means I can test and inspect (and sign off) electrical installations.
But I'm not, and have no desire to, be Part P - so I'll leave the "complex installs" to others :D
 
Dec 23, 2007
4,052
6,326
Wirral
Funster No
1,064
MH
Hobby Van Kenobi
Exp
started when I was 11 with my parents-forgot to stop!been real one since 1980!
QUALIFICATIONS
HNC -Electrical & Electronic Engineering Principles
-Electronic Engineering
-Electronic Digital Computers
City & Guilds -Telecommunications 272 (Part IV)
-Marine Radar & Radio 292 (Part III)
-Information Technology 726
Royal Navy -Trade certificate

ATE Programming -Membrain 7760
-Zehntel 810
DTI -Radar Certificate
Decca Survey Equipment -Trade Certificates
Varian -Course’s in High & Low energy Clinaccs, MLC, Portal Vision and Acuity


CAREER HISTORY
1996 - 2011 Norfolk & Norwich NHS University Hospital
Linacc Engineer MTO4 – Responsible for the maintenance and repair of Radiotherapy Linear accelerators and associated electrical & electronic equipment.

1995 – 96 Bio-Plus (sewage Treatment)
Three month work trial experience as Office & Workshop Manager in a small company manufacturing GRP
Sewage Treatment Plants.

1992 – 93 De Havilland College

City & Guilds 726 computer programming course in Cobol, Dbase III, Lotus 123, Health and safety

1990 – 92 C.I.S.S. (Building & Installation

Installation Manager – Responsible for the installation, maintenance and repair of data network cabling teams.

1989-90 Dataserv (Third party computer maintenance)


Workshop Manager – Responsible for the running of the computer repair workshop.


1979-89 Logica Ltd (Computer Programming)


Head of materials management (& Head of Test Department) – Responsible for the procurement department & Test department.

1979-85 Head of Test – Responsible for the testing of all in house built computer products.

1977-79 Self employed hydrographic survey engineer

1975-77 Decca survey – Hydrographic survey engineer

1972-75 South London technical collage – Radio Officer Merchant Navy

1972-72 Decca Radar- Test engineer

1964-72 Royal Navy – Petty Officer Radio Electrician

And like you Jim, it seems That I can't legally put a bl**dy socket in. :madder:
Ok Mr B your hired
 
D

Deleted member 29692

Deleted User
That is, and always has been the silly thing about Part P - it only applies to domestic installations.
 
OP
Mike B
Jan 16, 2014
801
2,746
Harleston, Norfolk
Funster No
29,717
MH
C Class, Autotrail Scout
Exp
Oct, 2013


To all of you for your trouble, but sorry I don't think anyone (since I didn't really get the answer I wanted) earned a "Dawn B exemption Certificate".

Mike
 
D

Deleted member 29692

Deleted User
The one that said I was qualified and all I had to do was fill a form in to be registered as a Q. Electrician. (y)
If you pick the right registration provider it won't be very much more than that.
 
Sep 10, 2013
488
541
Wickersley
Funster No
28,023
MH
Coachbuilt
Exp
Newbie to MH, 20yrs+ Caravanning.
You obviously have the knowledge and capability to install a spur so just do it and don't worry about it. So long as you install the spur and wiring to conform to the regulations, which you no noisy would want to in your own interest of safety, then what's the problem? It's your house, sod the local authority.
Like anything these days, you wouldn't want cowboys doing the job but certain things such as part P and the home energy efficiency certificates were only created as a government stealth tax but maybe I'm just cynical.
I myself did a full 4 year electrical apprenticeship when leaving school at 16 and finished in the industry when I was 22. I still carry out my own minor electrical repairs, spurs, lighting etc and ensure that the work is done correctly at all times.
As previously mentioned, if you can lay your hands on some old 2.5, problem solved
 

pappajohn

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 26, 2007
36,576
25,260
Dark side of the moon
Funster No
172
Exp
Since 2005
QUALIFICATIONS
HNC -Electrical & Electronic Engineering Principles
-Electronic Engineering
-Electronic Digital Computers
City & Guilds -Telecommunications 272 (Part IV)
-Marine Radar & Radio 292 (Part III)
-Information Technology 726
Royal Navy -Trade certificate

ATE Programming -Membrain 7760
-Zehntel 810
DTI -Radar Certificate
Decca Survey Equipment -Trade Certificates
Varian -Course’s in High & Low energy Clinaccs, MLC, Portal Vision and Acuity




1992 – 93 De Havilland College

City & Guilds 726 computer programming course in Cobol, Dbase III, Lotus 123, Health and safety

1990 – 92 C.I.S.S. (Building & Installation)
1989-90 Dataserv (Third party computer maintenance)
you didnt have time for a social life in your youth then
 
OP
Mike B
Jan 16, 2014
801
2,746
Harleston, Norfolk
Funster No
29,717
MH
C Class, Autotrail Scout
Exp
Oct, 2013
Duh - typical bloke. Why bother asking in the first place? (n)
1. Maybe I am qualified and hence don't need to do anything else. (This was the answer I hoped to get)
2. Maybe I am qualified but all I need to do is register.
3. I am not qualified, but take this test and you will be.
4. I am not qualified, but you need to take the following course etc.
5. Nothing you have is relevant, start at the beginning as a newbie.

Why did I ask, because I didn't know the answer.

I do know now from your reply and others, I need to take Part P. :)

Whether that is sufficient I would probably learn on the course, but the course is in the region of £560 so not worth for a one off socket. As Scotland Jim said, with our experience we should be legally able to do it, but we're not.

C'est la vie :cry:
 
Last edited:
SMC Motorhomes Newark
RoadPro
Johns Cross
Safeguard Motorhome Insurance
Rhino Installs
Friendly professional service from qualified technicians
Free Club Stickers
Top