What size generator needed to charge an Electric Vehicle?

[68c]

Only asking out of interest, I do not have nor am likely to get one in the near future.
I understand some bus companies are running electric busses but use deisel generators to charge them at the depot. As there are tax and LEZ advantages with an EV, would something like 10Kva gennie do the job. It may even be legal to use red diesel. As service station charge higher and higher fees is it a path to consider. Please understand I am unlikely to so, no emission comments please.

 

[tonyidle]

It depends on the size of the EV battery and how long you are prepared to wait. I'd guess that a 4KVA would manage the average EV in around 15 hours.

 

[Guigsy]

EV batteries are huge. A fairly typical EV charge is 40kWh and is worth about 120 miles of range. So a 10kVA generator outputs about 8kW continuously, so a minimum of 5 hours. I've seen generator consumption values of 2.4 litres per hour at full load. So you'd probably burn 12 litres of diesel. Current cost is about £1.10 per litre of red, so about £13 for a charge. Roughly the same price as current domestic electric.

 

[Gromett]

I understand some bus companies are running electric busses but use deisel generators to charge them at the depot.

You understand wrong. This was an extreme case and only temporary caused by red tape and dates back to 2018.

But still the anti EV mob use it as if it is was a live example of how things are done and how crap EVs are.

Electric buses powered by diesel generator till charging stations will be ready. A true story from UK - Sustainable Bus

Electric buses are not enough to make a green fleet. Issues such as energy production and life cycle emissions are quite known and debated. But what is happening in UK is a real extreme case: a fleet of electric buses powered by a diesel generator. Indeed, Harrogate Bus Company claims it’s...

www.sustainable-bus.com

 

[Gromett]

68c I just remembered the Indian one and wondered if you were referring to that youtube video. That was also misleading. The bus was being charged by a diesel generator on its way from the factory to the bus depot as it didn't have the range to make the trip without a recharge. Once at the depot it was charged using the grid not a diesel generator.

Fact behind Pune electric bus charged by diesel generator

Pune electric bus was charged using diesel generator during transit from Hyderabad to Pune | OpIndia News

www.opindia.com

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[Gromett]

Or there is the mobile generator picture that turned out to be false as well.

EXCEPT it wasn't a diesel generator it was a battery pack.

Fact check: Photo does not show a diesel generator charging an electric car

Over 30,000 social media users have been sharing posts that claim to show a photo of an electric car being charged by a diesel generator towed by a gas-powered van, often with the strapline “the future is stupid”. The claim about the machines pictured is partly false: a...

www.reuters.com

 

[Gromett]

As to doing this yourself. It is crazy. If you are paying for diesel it will end up costing your more than electric from the grid would.

 

[enark]

Only asking out of interest, I do not have nor am likely to get one in the near future.
I understand some bus companies are running electric busses but use deisel generators to charge them at the depot. As there are tax and LEZ advantages with an EV, would something like 10Kva gennie do the job. It may even be legal to use red diesel. As service station charge higher and higher fees is it a path to consider. Please understand I am unlikely to so, no emission comments please.

Interesting tax point, generators are plant and may still be able to be run on red diesel, but should this be the case if charging a vehicle for road use?

that said recently red diesel rules changed and it’s much more difficult to procure.

 

[DavidCh]

They don’t do it that way. The emergency mobile charge vehicle has a big battery in it that is used to quickly get charge over.

 

[dpsuk999]

EV batteries are huge. A fairly typical EV charge is 40kWh and is worth about 120 miles of range. So a 10kVA generator outputs about 8kW continuously, so a minimum of 5 hours. I've seen generator consumption values of 2.4 litres per hour at full load. So you'd probably burn 12 litres of diesel. Current cost is about £1.10 per litre of red, so about £13 for a charge. Roughly the same price as current domestic electric.

My electric smart car has a 17kwh battery and the range is just short of 100 miles and I charge it off my lithiums in the motorhome. I’ve just bought more lithiums which will give me a total of just short of 12kwh and I have 950w of solar panels so in the summer months can charge my car to full on just the sun

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[L' Hobo]

Interesting tax point, generators are plant and may still be able to be run on red diesel, but should this be the case if charging a vehicle for road use?

that said recently red diesel rules changed and it’s much more difficult to procure.

It is my understanding that red diesel can now ONLY be used in connection with Agriculture.

 

[Bessy765]

The rules on red diesel have become much tighter, hiring a mini digger recently it has To run on white

 

[enark]

It is my understanding that red diesel can now ONLY be used in connection with Agriculture

It is my understanding that red diesel can now ONLY be used in connection with Agriculture.

no can still use for non commercial generators, plus railways, private yachts, and travelling fairs etc But my query was, red diesel has never been allowed for road propulsion, surely by using a generator to charge an EV to run on the road May contravene that principle?

 

[gus-lopez]

The rukes on red may have changed but haven't for central heating oil. so continue to use that for whatever you want.

 

[David and Sally]

It is my understanding that red diesel can now ONLY be used in connection with Agriculture.

What about marine use?

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[enark]

What about marine use?

Yachts, travelling fairs, agriculture and special vehicles etc etc

 

[Raul]

Canal boats use red diesel

 

[enark]

• for vehicles and machinery used in agriculture, horticulture, fish farming and forestry. This includes allowing vehicles used for agriculture to be used for cutting verges and hedges, snow clearance and gritting roads
• to propel passenger, freight or maintenance vehicles designed to run on rail tracks
• for heating and electricity generation in non-commercial premises - this includes the heating of homes and buildings such as places of worship, hospitals and townhalls; off-grid power generation; and non-propulsion uses on permanently-moored houseboats
• for maintaining community amateur sports clubs as well as golf courses (including activities such as ground maintenance, and the heating and lighting of clubhouses, changing rooms etc.)
• as fuel for all marine craft refuelling and operating in the UK (including fishing and water freight industries), except for propelling private pleasure craft in Northern Ireland
• for powering the machinery (including caravans) of travelling fairs and circuses

 

[L' Hobo]

What about marine use?

I was told by a narrow boat owner in a Surrey marina, a few weeks ago, that he can no longer get red diesel for his boat, it's now all white but it didn't make much difference as the red is now, nearly as expensive.

This makes me wonder how old the above rules posted by enark are as it is my understanding that they were changed a few months ago

 

[Bleau’s]

We own a golf course ,touring park and lodges and can use red on the golf course but no where else so joint machinery has to use white .

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[enark]

I was told by a narrow boat owner in a Surrey marina, a few weeks ago, that he can no longer get red diesel for his boat, it's now all white but it didn't make much difference as the red is now, nearly as expensive.

This makes me wonder how old the above rules posted by enark are as it is my understanding that they were changed a few months ago

They are the 2022 government update to the changes and are the current legislation. Lots of the pressure for boat use was from the EU, but the RYA pushed back for pleasure boat users..they advise that if you sail to France, keep a receipt to prove you purchased yr red diesel in the UK or Channel Islands.

 

[L' Hobo]

They are the 2022 government update to the changes and are the current legislation. Lots of the pressure for boat use was from the EU, but the RYA pushed back for pleasure boat users..they advise that if you sail to France, keep a receipt to prove you purchased yr red diesel in the UK or Channel Islands.

but from what you wrote in post #18, that does not apply to Northern Ireland or am I missing something??
I'm surprised the NI Government would allow that?

 

[enark]

but from what you wrote in post #18, that does not apply to Northern Ireland or am I missing something??
I'm surprised the NI Government would allow that?

Assume that’s part of the NI protocol?

as for NI Assembly, not sure if it presently sits?

 

[Gromett]

it's now all white but it didn't make much difference as the red is now, nearly as expensive.

That doesn't make any sense but seems to be true.

The rebated rate of duty for red diesel is 11ppl whereas regular diesel has a main duty rate of 58ppl.

This means red should be 47 pence cheaper than white?

But round here it is only 30p cheaper. Seems to me that the petrol stations are profiteering?

 

[Blue Moon]

It is my understanding that red diesel can now ONLY be used in connection with Agriculture.

Some Refrigerated trailers on trucks have a separate red tank for diesel. I assume it’s for red diesel

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[Verteuil Man]

Some Refrigerated trailers on trucks have a separate red tank for diesel. I assume it’s for red diesel

That is correct. The amount of "plant" that can run on red diesel are constantly changing. Quite a lot of road maintenance vehicles such as gritters and road sweepers can. The Roadmarking vehicles could until 2011 as they were classed as plant. They now have separate tanks. One for DERV for the truck and red for the compressor and boiler heaters.

 

[Verteuil Man]

 

[Blue Moon]

Brilliant

 

[Itsmcb]

 

[dpsuk999]

Some Refrigerated trailers on trucks have a separate red tank for diesel. I assume it’s for red diesel

Not anymore, all refrigerated trailers in the uk now have to use white diesel. We use to use red up until a few months ago, now it’s all white diesel which is causing more and more fuel thefts!

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