What, No mirrors (1 Viewer)

[funflair]

I know this has been discussed before as a concept but now it is real, Le Voyageur produce a motorhome without mirrors or to be more precise with cameras instead of mirrors, they had/have one on show at the NEC.

https://www.levoyageur-motorhome.uk/motorhome-without-rear-view-mirrors/


Martin

 

[Brian and Jo]

I know this has been discussed before as a concept but now it is real, Le Voyageur produce a motorhome without mirrors or to be more precise with cameras instead of mirrors, they had/have one on show at the NEC.

https://www.levoyageur-motorhome.uk/motorhome-without-rear-view-mirrors/


Martin

Missed that Martin , not sure about that ,strange concept to get used to ,but don’t knock it till you’ve tried it.
Brian &Jo

 

[golly]

I'm not convinced, I use reversing camera for rear view, and depending on angle of sun / brightness etc the view can be hopeless. They would have to be very high quality cameras to overcome this problem, mind you it would reduce the overall width of the van by 18 inches

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[LesW]

A very good Idea, right up until they go wrong.. judging by the amount of problems that are caused by modern electronics.

 

[Clarky]

Like the idea.
It will be interesting to hear how practical it is in the ‘real world’.

Richard.

 

[funflair]

A very good Idea, right up until they go wrong.. judging by the amount of problems that are caused by modern electronics.

I share your concerns but they have been approved for use so somebody must have a modicum of faith in the system.

Martin

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[funflair]

MAN are working on systems for their coaches, as below.

Martin

Principally, that is to allow image quality to be high regardless of ambient light. In particular, MAN says that when entering or exiting tunnels, no difference is noticeable. Compensation occurs immediately.

Precautions have been taken to ensure that the driver’s view is maintained with dirt on the lens cover. The software accounts for that by removing distortion. A heater is also within the camera unit to clear ice or fogging.

Should a camera or a screen fail, MAN provides two basic mirror arms to be kept aboard the coach that can be attached easily.

routeone was able to drive the camera-equipped Cityliner. It takes a little getting used to; the screens give a more expansive view than mirrors, and in strong sunlight there remains some work to do to compensate for the darkest shadows.

But the overall impression is remarkable. Adjusting takes a lot less time than may be expected, and within a couple of miles it is second nature. This may be the future.

 

[tonyidle]

Considerably more reliable than a mirror attacked by white van man. I can only see advantages. They can't be compared with low-resolution over-priced reversing cameras / monitors most of which have the screen resolution, colour reproduction, and brightness, of a 1990s laptop.

 

[two]

They're on some cars, now, too. I quite like to use the mirrors as 'feelers' to ensure clearance passing through. Cameras would reduce my forward blindspot considerably, but might be expensive if hit.

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[autorouter]

The problem with cameras is the limited contrast range. You cannot see details in a sunlit road and a road in deep shadow at the same time. Our eyes are much better, but even they have their limits.

Modern cameras with built-in software can take two images, showing either the bright and dark areas, and combine the images with software to make one good image that shows everything. AFAIK, this technology is not yet used in rear-view cameras.

 

[tonyidle]

The problem with cameras is the limited contrast range. You cannot see details in a sunlit road and a road in deep shadow at the same time. Our eyes are much better, but even they have their limits.

Modern cameras with built-in software can take two images, showing either the bright and dark areas, and combine the images with software to make one good image that shows everything. AFAIK, this technology is not yet used in rear-view cameras.

Mirrors aren't perfect either. Depending on lighting conditions there are occasions where window reflections blot them out or sunlight directly on the mirror makes it useless. As drivers we accommodate a mirrors inherent faults: we'll do the same with cameras. My van has top mounted mirrors. Those, combined with large A posts, completely obscure traffic entering a roundabout from the RHS. I like the appearance of high-mounted top-hung mirrors but prefer low-mounted ones that fall into view more readily and don't block my view out to the right. Just an example of mirror imperfection that I've learned to live with.

 

[Doctor Dave]

Would the cameras be legal if they replaced mirrors?

Dave

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[AXO66]

Our humble nissan juke has four cameras. One in each wing mirror , one front , one back.
It produces amongst other images a made up (if that’s the right way to say it) of an image of the car as if taken by a camera 20feet above. This shows all corners and the ground with obstacles. Along side this on the screen is the rear view with distance guide and angle of turn so you can see the predicted direction of the car when you turn the steering wheel

Skepticle at first. Now never bother with mirrors or looking backwards. Just have to be careful if on a slope. I can using the downward image park up to 4inches of the car behind and parking is a doddle in very tight spaces.

Son says it’s all part of the technology in self driving cars. So glass mirrors on the way out?.

 

[DavidG58]

I have just been watching a video for a new audi all electric car they have gone one stage further and will be using 'virtual' mirrors, in the right place by projections of the image you would be seeing

 

[pagey]

this will mess fiat up where are they going to put the radio ariel

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[tonyidle]

No matter what design and legal obstacles need to be addressed mirrors will disappear if only for the reduction in drag and subsequent reduction in CO2 emissions.

 

[Steve N Tracy]

Hope they are better then the rear view camera on our Dethleffs on vehicles with led lamps it looks like they flicker like police lamps, bit un-nerving at first glance as they come up behind.
Must be something to do with the camera refresh rate.

 

[jongood]

IMO this is the way forward particularly with large vehicles. The view from a mirror is limited by the requirement to be in angle of the drivers view and the subject. Cameras take away this restriction, a camera can be mounted anywhere and mulitple cameras can be employed. When driving you would probably prefer a view of the sides and the rear and when reversing it would be advantageous to see the back corners from above. The benefits for trailers and artics could be even greater with no more 'blindside'.

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[tonyidle]

IMO this is the way forward particularly with large vehicles. The view from a mirror is limited by the requirement to be in angle of the drivers view and the subject. Cameras take away this restriction, a camera can be mounted anywhere and mulitple cameras can be employed. When driving you would probably prefer a view of the sides and the rear and when reversing it would be advantageous to see the back corners from above. The benefits for trailers and artics could be even greater with no more 'blindside'.

I said the same on a different thread. It's close to criminal that HGVs, given the difficulty they have manoeuvring safely in confined town centres, still have a blind spot. More so now that cameras and monitors are so cheap.

 

[nicholsong]

Where would the cameras be on a Coachbuilt?

If on the wider habitation part, would they pick up a vehicle alongside but not yet in the drivers direct view?

 

[Abacist]

Cameras will suit me as I have a habit of getting too close to the foreign toll booths and clunking the wing mirror. It was OK on the Autotrail coach built as the mirrors just gave way and you pushed them out again afterwards.

Need to be more careful with the A class as I doubt the mirrors are so forgiving!

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[funflair]

Where would the cameras be on a Coachbuilt?

If on the wider habitation part, would they pick up a vehicle alongside but not yet in the drivers direct view?

Hi Geoff

I think the cameras for mirror replacement sit in about the same place but give a wider view than the mirror (not sure about coach built but I don't want one) but a full 360 deg system is slightly different in that you get the birds eye view and for that you need 4 cameras in the centre of the front back and sides placed high up and with over 180 deg field of view you can even see branches that are the height of the van, awning permitting.

Martin

 

[Sandancers]

I have added a camera fixed under each side indicator at the front of our Transit based Chausson. Also have a twin rear camera, one long range back and one pointing down. I can display all four images at once on the 7" monitor or any one view at a time. The monitor also records the images. The side view cameras are wide angle rather than long range so useful for seeing stuff alongside or slightly behind, whereas the rear long range can see way back down the road. I have also put a 3" monitor in place of the internal rear view mirror (why that was there is a mystery) so that I can always just glance up to see the rear view, same as having a mirror to see thro the back wall. Also have a stand alone dash cam facing forwards.

So if I did loose a mirror, I could manage fine without it.

I have one more trick up my sleeve to finish off this video multiplicity which I will reveal after I get it built over the winter.