What lightweight car can I tow with A Frame (1 Viewer)

[themountaintiger]

Ive done my best to search for the answer here on the forum, but im stuck! :helpsos:

Im after a car to tow with an A Frame. Due to my user requirements I could do with a 4 seater car on basis that its often me + misses + Grandson who go away..

Ive seen examples of cars that can be A Framed but when I check their weights the cars are approx 1200kg. My motorhome manual states that Maximum Recommended Trailer Weight for my motorhome is 1050Kg. (Swift Sundance 630g)

Does this mean that:

1. I cant tow a 1200kg car?
2. I could tow a 1200kg car albeit not recommended and it wouldnt be a problem
3. I could tow a 1200kg car albeit not recommended and soon as I hit a hill ill be doing 7mph if Im lucky??
4. Or something else??

Or is there a 4 seater car which would be under the 1050kg specified?

Any help appreciated or ill be adding a shopping basket to front of a scooter to fit grandson in it Hmm, or get roof rack for 2 seater smart car and strap misses on it!!

 

[schojac]

See; I said this would be fun - now who's for A frames

 

[vwalan]

i do use them but 5er is the way to go .i do keep saying it but its not sank in yet.
but you must get the right type not one made for another country. get one made in england ,not wales or scotland. england. off now good night .cheers alan.

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[Elvis]

Toyota?

What about one of those really cute Toyota IQ's? Little 2 seater and they look great... better than a Smart (no offence to Smart owners but these have power steering!)... my parents tow the next car up (4 seater), can't remember what it called tho and they love it & she uses it every day as well... lots of choices now

 

[Elvis]

new A frame soon

Think I need to do some research on towbars next......there are inferior ones.../*?$ More research to be done I think.....

Check out my post re A frame, under MH chat - wait til next year for the new revolutionary A frame that is due out... can't say more at this stage but watch this space...can't wait to get mine and will inform all the Funsters once it's released...

 

[Elvis]

Im currently doing most of my motorhoming in UK so dont think I would use it for abroad.

**Might get a scooter for abroad where just me and misses would travel. cant cope with Grandson for full 2 weeks, he runs me ragged....

Wait til next year, for the new Euro legal A Frame!!!!

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[656]

My parents tow the next car up (4 seater), can't remember what it called tho and they love it & she uses it every day as well... lots of choices now [/B]

On an AFrame?

 

[ballina226]

Hi Steve, so are u saying that it is the figure of the 750kg which is important in relation to the 1050kg, or the actual gross weight of the vehicle i.e. Seicento 1200kg? Ahh just read again, and you mean the actual weight so in your example you believe the empty Seicento would be near enough to the 1050Kg...

Hi themountaintiger

My Seicento has a kerbweight according to the handbook of 735 kg including fuel in theory as it came out of the factory and you can load it up to a maximum of 1200 kg including up to 5 occupants.

We all put items in cars which always stay in the car and will increase its weight, such as tools and personal effects. This will increase the "standing" weight without passengers above the kerbweight. Do not forget to add the weight of the A-frame in this.

What I was trying to say was if you tow a Seicento empty so to speak without passengers (if this was legal!) and luggage the actual weight towed would be less than your 1050 kg motorhome manufacturers towing limit.

It may be worthwhile having a word with your dealer to ask why the towing limit was set so low by Swift as I did as it may be possible to increase this with a different towbar.

Regards

Steve

 

[ballina226]

Hi

Just been on the Swift website and see where they are coming from regarding the trailer towing limit.

The gross train weight of a new 630G is 5075 kg

The Maximum Technical Permissible Laden Mass of it is 4005 kg

Take one from the other you get a maximum trailer weight of 1070 kg, close to themountaintiger's 1050 kg handbook figure.

Hope this helps

Steve

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[themountaintiger]

Hi

Just been on the Swift website and see where they are coming from regarding the trailer towing limit.

The gross train weight of a new 630G is 5075 kg

The Maximum Technical Permissible Laden Mass of it is 4005 kg

Take one from the other you get a maximum trailer weight of 1070 kg, close to themountaintiger's 1050 kg handbook figure.

Hope this helps

Steve

hmm not sure. gross train weight is definitely 6505kg, mines a 2007 version. Taken figure direct from Swift Sundance Technical Handbook...

Wonder why its reduced so much on newer version??

 

[pappajohn]

i do use them but 5er is the way to go .i do keep saying it but its not sank in yet.
but you must get the right type not one made for another country. get one made in england ,not wales or scotland. england. off now good night .cheers alan.

could be something to do with not everyone wanting a 5er Alan.

like saying if you want to carry a lot then buy an old double decker bus, convert it then re-register as a motorhome......then pass your HGV to drive it.
if you're that adamant you need a 7 ton payload then the test isn't going to stand in the way.

 

[themountaintiger]

What about one of those really cute Toyota IQ's? Little 2 seater and they look great... better than a Smart (no offence to Smart owners but these have power steering!)... my parents tow the next car up (4 seater), can't remember what it called tho and they love it & she uses it every day as well... lots of choices now

thanks elvis (im all shook up!!)

Ill check that out

oh, waiting next year for new A Frame.... just cant wait that long.... Im on a roll now!!

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[vwalan]

john ,no test for a 5er.
have hgv no probs there but had a bus once, didnt like it.
only trying to be helpfull. some may never had it cross their mind.
having tried most concoctions of camper there isnt the ideal out there unless we coulc do a transformer camper .press a button and go large ,small .boat .plane.
never mind . have fun .cheers alan

 

[themountaintiger]

john ,no test for a 5er.
have hgv no probs there but had a bus once, didnt like it.
only trying to be helpfull. some may never had it cross their mind.
having tried most concoctions of camper there isnt the ideal out there unless we coulc do a transformer camper .press a button and go large ,small .boat .plane.
never mind . have fun .cheers alan

Dont stop trying VWalan...

I had considered a 5th wheeler but family vehicle dynamics and space issues meant it wasnt suitable for me (at this time). I did look within ebay at 5th wheelers before considering motorhome (and dare I say caravan!), so I do see the merits of having one....

 

[pappajohn]

john ,no test for a 5er.
have hgv no probs there but had a bus once, didnt like it.
only trying to be helpfull. some may never had it cross their mind.
having tried most concoctions of camper there isnt the ideal out there unless we coulc do a transformer camper .press a button and go large ,small .boat .plane.
never mind . have fun .cheers alan

not getting on your case Alan, just pointing out they aint everyones cup of tea. :thumb:

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[aba]

had my 900cc siecento on the weighbridge at work as i am looking at getting an a-frame for it half a tank of fuel full screen wash maximum levels on oil - coolant etc jack spare wheel and wheel brace but no one in it 790kg
knowing that my van has a 1000kg tow limit although up hill starts in the wet solo are not too friendly on the front tyres i wouldn't like to tow more than 1000kg but i also know that with a full fuel tank and the associated bits of metalwork involved with the a-frame it will probably be closer to 900kg on the road so not really a lot to play with.

best get the van weighed on a weighbridge loaded and ready to go away and find someone with the car of your choice and get that on a weighbridge and see exactly how much you have to play with..:thumb:

 

[ballina226]

agreed steve, the towing limit should be dictated by the towbars limitations but with a trailer limit of over 2.5t a suitable towbar should be fitted...not a cost effective and inferior one.

appologies if it appeared so, but i never intended to pull your first post to pieces.

welcome to the fun...:thumb:

No problems pappajohn too many things to consider when towing glad I am retired and not having to worry about 30 trailers with mowers on them towed behind a variety of vehicles!

Regards

Steve

 

[vwalan]

thats ok john i know you wernt.when i first built mine there wernt many but its growing. remember i actually went to buy mine 5 yrs before i got it .but someone beat me to it. it was dry stored for five years.
i,m not so keen on the normal 5er outfits ,i like my truck look .i think it as advantages .but also disadvantages .looks very straight and boxy .but good for converting.
good job we,re all different.
i do have a bongo with roof tent and pull a teardrop as well so have feet in many camps .plus a vw t25 hightop just to look at. i do like toys.
see you at one of the shows ,you going malvern this year?
we may do .see you somewhere unless you see me first. cheers alan.

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[ballina226]

hmm not sure. gross train weight is definitely 6505kg, mines a 2007 version. Taken figure direct from Swift Sundance Technical Handbook...

Wonder why its reduced so much on newer version??

Hi send swift technical an e-mail about the low towing limit. They are normally quick to reply - usually the same day.

Steve

 

[barnybg]

A-frame ? Ilegal ?

Ok,peeps can you sort out this bee in my bonnet ?

A - frame that your all talking about ? Its not those A-frame thingy's on ebay for sale for vehicle break down ?no brakes fitted just an A frame that has chains that wrap around underneath car.I purchased a heavy duty one,that i used to tow a suzuki gv softtop behind a longwheel base nissan terrano diesel...........for 3000 kms ! but found out on journey that they are ilegal,was pulled 3 times in germany and once in Austria,but was let off and told (everytime in different zones) to unhitch and drive !Have to say,after a minor improvement to design by myself,i had no problems towing the 3000 kms and at 65 mph !
Or a similar A-frame but has quick fit attachment to front of car,(if they have no independant braking,then they are ilegal,in many EU countries) even the braked ones,i think are different or not allowed in other countries,please read up on it or internet it,before splashing out.

 

[vwalan]

hello barnney some of us have read up on it and can just about quote song and verse. some of us have done recovery work using these as a tool of trade. others just for pleasure purpose. there is lots of different ways to get brakes .the latest i,ve seen uses a sort of nintendo ds device to operate brakes. i personaly have one here from the early 80,s could be 70,s as i bought it secondhand in the early 80,s. .i also have harvey frost towboy .tow poles all very old and from recovery kit manufactureres. there is some discrepancies in some euro countries spain is the one at the moment. it wil get defined one way or the other.its always a good discusion subject.along with a few other items .
keep your eyes open you will soon find the other things. cheers alan.,

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[pappajohn]

Ok,peeps can you sort out this bee in my bonnet ?

A - frame that your all talking about ? Its not those A-frame thingy's on ebay for sale for vehicle break down ?no brakes fitted just an A frame that has chains that wrap around underneath car.I purchased a heavy duty one,that i used to tow a suzuki gv softtop behind a longwheel base nissan terrano diesel...........for 3000 kms ! but found out on journey that they are ilegal,was pulled 3 times in germany and once in Austria,but was let off and told (everytime in different zones) to unhitch and drive !Have to say,after a minor improvement to design by myself,i had no problems towing the 3000 kms and at 65 mph !
Or a similar A-frame but has quick fit attachment to front of car,(if they have no independant braking,then they are ilegal,in many EU countries) even the braked ones,i think are different or not allowed in other countries,please read up on it or internet it,before splashing out.

extremely difficult to find actual government/legal legislation on the 'net either for the UK or Europe.

many have tried and failed....including me !

loads of hearsay about it on the web though but that doesn't confirm anything.

i reckon the only way to actually find legislation is to be a lawyer specialising in motoring law. they can interpret legal gobledegook we mortals cant possibly understand.