What is it with merging traffic? (1 Viewer)

[Larby]

When merging from a slip road, it is one of the few times I use full throttle in the MH.
I leave the service area and try to be doing 60MPH at the joining point.
Even lorries flash me in as I don't cause them any bother.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Of course. But as it is a merge junction traffic that has right of way should do everything possible to allow that to be successful and safe. They're called slip roads for a reason.

When was that changed in the Highway Code

 

[SpeedyDux]

When merging from a slip road, it is one of the few times I use full throttle in the MH.
I leave the service area and try to be doing 60MPH at the joining point.
Even lorries flash me in as I don't cause them any bother.

Same here and I find my PVC has ample acceleration to allow safe joining in normal circumstances.

Unfortunately quite often there are stupid car drivers ahead on the slip road who seem to think it is safe to join the M5 by forcing their way into lane 1 at only 30 - 40 mph. This is especially when exiting a Service Area with their utterly weedy acceleration. I can only imagine that there is a full Cappuchino cup on their dash that they are trying not to spill and they assume the motorway traffic has to jump out of their way.

How can we possibly know if the car in front of the MH is not going to accelerate to match the motorway traffic in lane 1. Even if I hang back, I need to light the afterburners to match truck speed before joining.

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[Pausim]

I can only imagine that there is a full Cappuchino cup on their dash that they are trying not to spill

Yes what is it with drive through takeaways for hot drinks on motorway service stations. They are not allowed to sell alcohol but driving with a hot drink in one hand is safe?

 

[Silver-Fox]

Yes what is it with drive through takeaways for hot drinks on motorway service stations. They are not allowed to sell alcohol but driving with a hot drink in one hand is safe?

You can be prosecuted for drinking and eating whilst driving.

I believe you are deemed to not be in full control of your vehicle ?

 

[StephDeLux]

The road joining a motorway is an acceleration lane

That concept seems to be lost on so many drivers, it boggles the mind.

I suspect it is not part of the basic driver training before getting the driving license.

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[TheCaller]

Successfully motorway joining requires anticipation & cooperation by all parties. Those already on the motorway know they are approaching a slip road & therefore should be expecting joining traffic. They should(!) already be maintaining a 2 second gap to the vehicle in front. Common sense & common courtesy suggests that you would assist someone joining the motorway if that is reasonably possible.

Someone joining should expect but not rely on reasonable assistance. They can only expect assistance if they have made whatever effort they can to cause the minimum disruption. So looking for the gap, matching speed to merge seamlessly into the gap. But those on the motorway do have a responsibility to make a gap - if the joining traffic has made the effort to get up to speed, it is unrealistic to then leave them nowhere to go.

So what is reasonable assistance? Moving to lane 2 if there is a gap there to move to. Just easing off slightly to make a bigger gap. The vehicle on the motorway has a better view of the developing situation than the one joining. It's recognising that a loaded wagon pulling up an uphill slip is never going to get up to speed before they have to join the main carriageway & therefore moving to lane 2 becomes more of a necessity - or even moving to lane 3 to let the traffic in lane 1 move out to 2.

It's the unconfident driver who is the biggest danger, because they are unpredictable. The arsehole in the BMW (other makes are available to arseholes) barrelling down the slip road expecting everyone to get out of his way is 100% predictable & can be allowed for. You know exactly what he is going to do, so let him go & he'll be away down the road & out of your hair. It's the ditherer you need to watch, because nobody, least of all him, knows what he's going to do next.

Personally, if I'm joining a motorway or joining a dual-carriageway from a layby, I consider I've failed if an wagon has to lift off for me, although of course they are usually the first to move over if they can. Nearly all the problems I see can be put down to a lack of anticipation; a failure to read the road ahead. It's one of the advantages of driving a larger vehicle - we can see what others sometimes can't.

 

[Vipar]

Did you notice the speed that the lorry was travelling at he only slowed by 4 mph I would have stamped on the brakes. Def the car driver was a Pratt I feel sorry for the other car driver he was probably completely unsighted.

 

[Silver-Fox]

easing off slightly to make a bigger gap.

Whilst I agree with most of what you said.

Anyone joining a road should not cause the traffic already on that road to have to alter their speed or direction ?

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[Silver-Fox]

I would have stamped on the brakes

And if it was an artic possibly jack knife the trailer ?

 

[TheCaller]

Whilst I agree with most of what you said.

Anyone joining a road should not cause the traffic already on that road to have to alter their speed or direction ?

Agreed, but everyone needs a little help sometimes. I wouldn't hang someone out to dry just because they hadn't got it quite right. It can be difficult when both the motorway & the slip road have a lot of traffic on them.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Agreed, but everyone needs a little help sometimes. I wouldn't hang someone out to dry just because they hadn't got it quite right. It can be difficult when both the motorway & the slip road have a lot of traffic on them.

Agreed my point is the merging traffic is the ones to adjust themselves to suit the flow of traffic on the motorway etc.

You can cause major problems with the ripple effect even if braking slightly.

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[TheCaller]

You can cause major problems with the ripple effect even if braking slightly.

Absolutely. Which is why I stressed anticipation earlier & talked about easing off, not braking. If I have to use brakes on a motorway then either I or someone else has made a serious error of judgement. Leaving aside a lorry having to control speed on a downhill run.

Question for the wagon drivers - does using the exhaust brake (which if I understand it is a form of enhanced engine braking) put the brake lights on?

 

[tonyidle]

Do you have a link for where slip roads have been reclassified as such.

Sorry - as what?

 

[jongood]

Sorry - as what?

In post 42 you said that a sliproad isnt a give way its a merge junction. I ve always understood a sliproad to be a giveway, by that I mean that traffic entering the Motorway etc has to give way to traffic already on it. But you seem to be suggesting that the law has changed. I'm pretty sure it hasn't but happy to learn if I am wrong.

Jon

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[jongood]

Successfully motorway joining requires anticipation & cooperation by all parties. Those already on the motorway know they are approaching a slip road & therefore should be expecting joining traffic. They should(!) already be maintaining a 2 second gap to the vehicle in front. Common sense & common courtesy suggests that you would assist someone joining the motorway if that is reasonably possible.

Someone joining should expect but not rely on reasonable assistance. They can only expect assistance if they have made whatever effort they can to cause the minimum disruption. So looking for the gap, matching speed to merge seamlessly into the gap. But those on the motorway do have a responsibility to make a gap - if the joining traffic has made the effort to get up to speed, it is unrealistic to then leave them nowhere to go.

So what is reasonable assistance? Moving to lane 2 if there is a gap there to move to. Just easing off slightly to make a bigger gap. The vehicle on the motorway has a better view of the developing situation than the one joining. It's recognising that a loaded wagon pulling up an uphill slip is never going to get up to speed before they have to join the main carriageway & therefore moving to lane 2 becomes more of a necessity - or even moving to lane 3 to let the traffic in lane 1 move out to 2.

It's the unconfident driver who is the biggest danger, because they are unpredictable. The arsehole in the BMW (other makes are available to arseholes) barrelling down the slip road expecting everyone to get out of his way is 100% predictable & can be allowed for. You know exactly what he is going to do, so let him go & he'll be away down the road & out of your hair. It's the ditherer you need to watch, because nobody, least of all him, knows what he's going to do next.

Personally, if I'm joining a motorway or joining a dual-carriageway from a layby, I consider I've failed if an wagon has to lift off for me, although of course they are usually the first to move over if they can. Nearly all the problems I see can be put down to a lack of anticipation; a failure to read the road ahead. It's one of the advantages of driving a larger vehicle - we can see what others sometimes can't.

I agree with all of this but sadly a large number of the general public see it as their right to join the motorway regardless of traffic. I ve spent the last 2 days in 44t truck and it never ceases to amaze me how people in cars basically elbow in front of lorries. Of course they are frequently unsighted because they don't allow themselves either the time or space to assess the situation.

They do do some really stupid things, this is my list most of which I witness on a regular basis:

1, is as shown in the videos driving straight out in front of you without gaining enough speed
2, Cut across too late while attempting to leave the motorway.
3, Cut into the braking area while approaching traffic islands etc
4, Cut the corners on traffic islands.
5, Brake heavily when approaching speed cameras ( presumably because they havent been paying attention to the speed limit signs)
6, Drive/walk behind you when you re reversing - a particular issue with Artics.

Of course I do accept that there are also bad or belligerent or both truck drivers out there and there are sure are some bad junctions.

 

[tonyidle]

In post 42 you said that a sliproad isnt a give way its a merge junction. I ve always understood a sliproad to be a giveway, by that I mean that traffic entering the Motorway etc has to give way to traffic already on it. But you seem to be suggesting that the law has changed. I'm pretty sure it hasn't but happy to learn if I am wrong.

Jon

No - nothing has changed and I didn't mean to suggest it had. My argument is merely to suggest that the traffic already on the motorway (that obviously has right of way) has some responsibility to enable traffic on the slip road to join without difficulty. Slip road traffic has the responsibility of not inconveniencing those already on the motorway. In a perfect world there would always be a gap to slip into - there should always be room between vehicles on the motorway to allow this to happen - and someone joining should already be travelling at motorway speed. I too see how often this fails because the person in the joining vehicle either fails to match speed, doesn't understand the principle of hitting a gap travelling at 60+mph, or doesn't understand that slip roads are long for a reason. I also see vehicles in lane 1 determined not to move over when there's nothing to stop them doing so or travelling so close to the vehicle in front that there's no gap.

 

[gus-lopez]

Take Spain, for example, a joining vehicle will no doubt speed up and be well ahead of you, or slow down if he is at the side of you, to join safely.

Or the favourite for the twa**s who are actually far behind you in the slip road is to accelerate to exit in front of you; completely obliviouto the fact that the reason you haven't moved over is someone is overtaking you & starts to come back in to find a car has appeared from nowhere. I just shut the door if I see them attempting it same as I do if you enter & then stay stuck alongside me.

I was in lane one. I moved over to lane two to allow traffic to merge onto the M5 but then the idiot joining the motorway thought it would be funny to match my speed so I was stuck.

I just indicate & start to move over same as I do when overtaking & some one accelerates.

Surely the joining traffic has to give way, hence the sign cedez le passage?
Please correct me if I’m wrong as I often have this discussion with the missus.

Yes.
In Spain we also have exit slips that use the same lane as those entering so that the merging traffic have to queue. Pity they don't do it in the Uk then in some places you'd never be able to enter the road.

so I turned the cruise back on.

Another thing that is utterly useless in the Uk with the half wits being unable to maintainthe same speed.

You can be prosecuted for drinking and eating whilst driving.

I believe you are deemed to not be in full control of your vehicle ?

Which is a nonsense when a person with one arm can drive exctly the same automatic vehicle without mods?

If I have to use brakes on a motorway then either I or someone else has made a serious error of judgement.

Exactly! What is it with braking going uphill ? They need draging out & beating .

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[tonyidle]

I agree with all of this but sadly a large number of the general public see it as their right to join the motorway regardless of traffic. I ve spent the last 2 days in 44t truck and it never ceases to amaze me how people in cars basically elbow in front of lorries. Of course they are frequently unsighted because they don't allow themselves either the time or space to assess the situation.

They do do some really stupid things, this is my list most of which I witness on a regular basis:

1, is as shown in the videos driving straight out in front of you without gaining enough speed
2, Cut across too late while attempting to leave the motorway.
3, Cut into the braking area while approaching traffic islands etc
4, Cut the corners on traffic islands.
5, Brake heavily when approaching speed cameras ( presumably because they havent been paying attention to the speed limit signs)
6, Drive/walk behind you when you re reversing - a particular issue with Artics.

Of course I do accept that there are also bad or belligerent or both truck drivers out there and there are sure are some bad junctions.

Everything is made more difficult and dangerous when 44 tonnes is trying to push you along . One thing does puzzle me though - why do (the majority?) of truck drivers leave no gaps? I regularly see trucks on the motorway travelling ten feet or less apart. Their stopping distance is more than that of a car and yet there is rarely room to slot in between two trucks whether trying to return to lane 1 or when trying to join from a slip road.

 

[jongood]

Everything is made more difficult and dangerous when 44 tonnes is trying to push you along . One thing does puzzle me though - why do (the majority?) of truck drivers leave no gaps? I regularly see trucks on the motorway travelling ten feet or less apart. Their stopping distance is more than that of a car and yet there is rarely room to slot in between two trucks whether trying to return to lane 1 or when trying to join from a slip road.

There definitely are some bad truck drivers but I don't believe its the majority, possibly more the ones you notice for their recklessness?

Regarding moving over, there are increasing numbers of road sections where larger vehicles are restricted from accessing the 2nd line by either weight or width limits.

 

[Graydo]

Another thing I have noticed is when you are approaching a roundabout on a dual carriageway and need to get into the right lane to turn right at the roundabout no one wants to let you in the outside lane.
I always try and move over in good time and indicate before doing so but find people reluctant to allow you in.
Going round said roundabout requires you go a bit slower than cars to stop the crockery etc from ending up on the floor which seems to infuriate the drivers behind do much that when you join the new carriageway you cannot move back into the left lane because they are going hell for leather to undertake you!

When they do undertake you they always seem to be twenty year old GTI driving snowflakes who's obvious sense of entitlement is only matched by their monstrous egos!

I am not a timid driver and always try to minimise disruption to the traffic flow but some people are completely unaware of the limitations of larger vehicles and cannot tolerate the slightest delay on their important journey to Starbucks!

The phrase "better latte than never" springs to mind :>)



Graydo

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[Silver-Fox]

Question for the wagon drivers - does using the exhaust brake (which if I understand it is a form of enhanced engine braking) put the brake lights on?

Good question, I’d never thought about that.
Coaches are fitted with the same equipment.

Another thought.
Why is it some people think it’s acceptable not to indicate whilst trying to join onto a motorway.

 

[Silver-Fox]

I just indicate & start to move over same as I do when overtaking & some one accelerates

That seems to work most of the time.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Which is a nonsense when a person with one arm can drive exctly the same automatic vehicle without mods?

I don't make the rules, just saying.

I totally agree with you.

Also it’s acceptable for normal plod to use a radio whilst driving at speed.
How long is their driving tuition, a day ?

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[Silver-Fox]

Everything is made more difficult and dangerous when 44 tonnes is trying to push you along . One thing does puzzle me though - why do (the majority?) of truck drivers leave no gaps? I regularly see trucks on the motorway travelling ten feet or less apart. Their stopping distance is more than that of a car and yet there is rarely room to slot in between two trucks whether trying to return to lane 1 or when trying to join from a slip road.

All things being equal each truck will slow at the same speed when braking.

Stick a car in the middle of two trucks who’s going to slow the quickest.
It won’t be the truck that’s for sure.

 

[jongood]

All things being equal each truck will slow at the same speed when braking.

Stick a car in the middle of two trucks who’s going to slow the quickest.
It won’t be the truck that’s for sure.

I completely agree with the 2nd para the last place anyone with any sense wants to be is squeezed between two HGVs.

But I've got to disagree with the first one sorry. The issue here is that the following truck has reduced his field of a vision considerably and will be less able to deal with unforeseen events.

 

[Silver-Fox]

But I've got to disagree with the first one sorry. The issue here is that the following truck has reduced his field of a vision considerably and will be less able to deal with unforeseen events.

I agree the field of vision is reduced but I can see why truck drivers do what they do.

Open a gap up and some plonker in a car will slip in there and start talking on the phone etc.
Vary their speed as can be seen often and screwing up the progress of the truck.

Then in these days of fuel economy bonuses a bit a slip streaming helps the drivers wallet.

I’m not saying the above is correct just real world type stuff ?

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[Janine]

Another thing I have noticed is when you are approaching a roundabout on a dual carriageway and need to get into the right lane to turn right at the roundabout no one wants to let you in the outside lane.
I always try and move over in good time and indicate before doing so but find people reluctant to allow you in.
Going round said roundabout requires you go a bit slower than cars to stop the crockery etc from ending up on the floor which seems to infuriate the drivers behind do much that when you join the new carriageway you cannot move back into the left lane because they are going hell for leather to undertake you!

When they do undertake you they always seem to be twenty year old GTI driving snowflakes who's obvious sense of entitlement is only matched by their monstrous egos!

I am not a timid driver and always try to minimise disruption to the traffic flow but some people are completely unaware of the limitations of larger vehicles and cannot tolerate the slightest delay on their important journey to Starbucks!

The phrase "better latte than never" springs to mind :>)



Graydo

Around my little town there’s a bypass. It has two lanes going up the hill to allow us to pass slow moving tractors etc. There is exactly a mile between the roundabout at the bottom and the one at the top.

Frequently someone will get in the outside lane at the bottom (and drive at half the 60mph limit) because they want to turn right at the top - even when there are no vehicles in the nearside lane!

What is the correct protocol? Drive up behind them flashing headlights and beeping the horn or undertake?

(They are usually little old men with flat caps ? )

 

[Graydo]

Undertaking is illegal, especially if the vehicle is already indicating to move into the slower lane.
There is no "correct" procedure and sadly common sense and courtesy seem to be in short supply these days.

Graydo

 

[Pausim]

men with flat caps

Always a danger sign for me, as is a baseball cap or hoodie (particularly if cap is on backwards). I make an exception for open top vehicles. Hoodie on backwards is a red alert.

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