What Happened to 50%

Should we have a non refundable deposit to get on Rally Lists


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silverlocks

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I have just returned home after attending the Dorset Fun Rally at Corfe Castle and what great weather and great organisation from Jez and Lin but half of you didnt turn up after saying you were attending.
I think that is at the least very rude and am now suggesting that to book on a meet you should pay a non refundable deposit of £20 to get on the list. All of you out there can now tear me to pieces but I will still think that you who didnt inform Jez you werent able to make it are plain bloody rude
 

Gromett

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Wouldn't it be better to blacklist people who continuously let others down and don't "phone in sick". Rather than punish everyone just punish those responsible? Just my personal opinion.
 

simply

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Why £20 ?

This would be more than a night at the Dorset meet and for some meets may be more than the cost of the planned duration.

£20 per unit or per person? Per unit is more punitive for the solo traveller.

Many meets collect cash on location, presumably because for the marshalls this is the simplest (though admittedly not the safest/most secure) method of gathering funds.
How would you collect cash from non arrivals? Or are you suggesting everybody pays in advance? ...and everyone will need to be refunded if there is a quagmire and the meet is cancelled?!

What would happen to the money collected from non-arrivals? Twenty-five no shows would amount to a whopping £500 !

What exclusions would there be? Sickness, accident, bereavement, breakdown, traffic jam, failed Internet/'phone connection - judging the exceptions will likely be an unharmonious chore, one that that I know I wouldn't want to volunteer for!

I agree that it is difficult and problematic when there are no shows, particularly when the percentage is high. A lot of work goes into the preparation for a rally and I am aware that the farmer in Dorset mowed a large potentially grazing field to facilitate the anticipated number of Funsters when only a small corner was actually needed. I know I am not the only one that feels shame or embarrassment about being part of a club that caused such inconvenience and loss to our host, but unfortunately not everybody possesses the qualities of courtesy and respect.

However, being of an optimistic nature I would like to believe that at least in most cases the let down was unintentional. I wonder how many people botched their diary bookings or simply forgot. Rather than attempting to punish no-showers howabout we try to help them? Although the event appeared on the MotorhomeFun website, using the website to keep track of which meets you have put your name down for has been a bit difficult or haphazard. Trailing through page after page of a meet post that often spans over many months can be tedious and time consuming and quite possibly beyond the capacity of some people's skills, patience or technolgy capabilities. I find it quite understandable that someone may in a fleeting moment pop their name down on a list and in the following weeks/months genuinely totally forget about it. Perhaps this new whizzy, all singing, all dancing website will have the capacity to shortcut access to attendance lists and/or individuals' calendars so it is quick and simple to see what you have signed up for. Another idea would be to send out some sort of reminder or a requirement to confirm intended attendance a week or two before a meet. I realise this would not clarify numbers exactly, for there will always be those that experience last minute catastrophies but I imagine it would reduce the 50% failed attendance rate considerably.

One final thing, anybody that missed the Dorset Fun Rally should be extremely disappointed, it was a fantastic meet !!

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icantremember

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Taking of deposits would in my opinion put extra unreasonable responsibity on those organising meets and unfair on the members who do turn up.

I agree that those who do not attend any meet, having put their name down on the list, without notifying the organiser in advance should be penalised in some way, but I fail to have any idea how except a ban from any future lists for a period.
 
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Chris

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Whichever way you look at it, it's bad form to not turn up without notifying the organiser.

Not sure what the solution is except to ask people to improve their manners or introduce a blacklist so that if you miss one rally then you cannot be added to the list for another rally for a set period of say 6 months.

Problem is there will always be exceptional circumstances, but I anticipate that 50% of people for this meet didn't suffer from exceptional circumstances.
 
Jan 25, 2013
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I have never been to a meet but am looking forward to going to Ilfracombe in August. Am I told where the site is before I go or do I just turn up and hope I find it somewhere? Who do I contact to find out without going through the general forum? If I find I may "no show" who do I tell? As a newbie it is unchartered territory for me!

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scotjimland

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Meets and Rallies .. difference..

If the Rally organiser has to pay a an up front deposit for site fees, a meal or event then yes, a deposit of say 25% would be appropriate.. otherwise no.
'No shows' are a part of life .. if you're not out of pocket then it's the 'no show' who has missed out.. not the organiser.

Meets are not 'organised' they are 'turn up if you like or not' , on an ad hoc basis, bookings and fees are paid directly to the site owner.. not the 'organiser'
For example..
" we will be at ABC campsite this weekend 23rd - 25th Aug.2014. .. you are invited to join us.. site booking call this number xxxxx "

No money involved, no deposit required.
 

haganap

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I can't agree Jim. As this site has grown there are more and more rallies to attend. No shows are part of life but as said very rude IMO. All we have ever asked for is that if someone can't attend they let us know. The last thing you want to be doing as a marshall is be out there awaiting someone to turn up at midnight and not attending. The thing with the site being bigger is that many rallies now fill up very quickly. Therefore when someone does not attend they are taking the place of someone else who wanted too. We have on this occasion for the Bring and Buy and the New Year meet insisted on payment up front for attendance. The new year do because wee had to lay out a shed load of cash prior to the meet getting off the ground. The B&B because last year I had 20-30 dissapointed funsters that could not attend because it was fully booked only to have about 10 no shows whom never even bothered to let us know. We even had one that was down to go to another event on another forum at the same time yet when approached said that they were still coming tothe B&B. Up to this point and with only a few weeks to go we have yet to have anyone drop out other than the Only Sue who could not make it. She kindly contacted me and I managed to put her in touch with someone else who wanted to go and she theoretically sold her payment on.

There is no point in taking a deposit, you may as well take the whole lot or nothing in my experience. You pay for shows prior so why not rallies?

I do agree with yout last bit though and think there's not enough of that goes on, just a simple "we are going here" wanna come along and say hello?
We have a good few friends that we just turn up with to different places where others are always welcome to come along, but the problem is that when you put your name to it people often expect bacon butties, a list of entertainment and instructions instead of plain old fashion company.
 

scotjimland

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I think in essence we agree Paul. and you are perfectly correct that no shows are rude..

If I were organising a rally that required a large capital outlay such as you describe I would also insist on 'money up front' ..

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Jan 28, 2013
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I voted no....
I think the new forum has or can have a calendar module add on... Maybe that's the way to go if it's integrated enough so that individuals have a reminder and can cancel...
Not sure paying up front is fair on organisers
 
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Apr 19, 2008
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I think its great this topic is being discussed openly and I agree with Paul that at meets where space is limited it causes extra problems for the marshals.

Here are my personal views

From an attendee point of view - when attending a rally or meet there is rarely a contact number to phone to advise the marshals that we will be late or that we cannot attend at the last minute. As a simple example, the Stratford Show we were due to arrive mid afternoon but didnt arrive until about 9pm. I had no internet as Fun wont work on my old mobile. It was only because I had a funsters telephone number that I could get a message to the marshals. This didnt stop me from feeling bad that they were not enjoying their evening but hanging around and waiting to park us up. Brisey and Pamelaar greeted us with smiles accepted our apology and were perfect hosts on our arrival.

From a marshal view - I worry dreadfully. Has someone broken down, have they been in an accident, have they had bad news etc, have they died. As I havent had internet access on the rare occasions this has happened I have had to ask another funster with internet access to send a PM in the hope that whoever is attending has internet and can respond.

As well as late arrivals there are sometimes people who leave early due to family circumstances. This has occasionally happened at my meets. Getting a message via someone else saying they are okay has also meant less worrying.

Having said all this when people are dealing with tragic accident and death, their minds and priorities are completely elsewhere and may not remember until the next day (if then) that they should have been at a fun meet so I do not think blacklisting or naming and shaming would be appropriate

SENSIBLE SOLUTIONS needed

Here are 3 I have thought of can other funsters think of any?

The arrival form to include a telephone number so that the marshals can be contacted. It doesnt need to be your personal number as sim cards are so cheap or free dependent on network, marshals could have simcards just for the events. Not everyone who comes away has access to the internet.

A designated internet monitor who would regularly check PMs that are headed Arriving Late or Cant now attend.

Including telephone numbers on the arrival form of all funsters so that whoever is marshalling can telephone non attendees (this does however put expense on marshals for telephone calls).
 

old-mo

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I honestly dont know the solution,,, hence my starting the post the other day... It must be very disheartening for Rally organisers to have a list of say 60 yes we will comes, and only 40 odd turn up..

What with more general rally`s being organised, I can see it happening time and again.

But hope fully all will read this and the other thread. and make an effort that if they have put their names down and cannot for what ever reason.... Please, Please let the Rally Marshall/Organiser know out of decent common sense..

Jez & Lin`s Dorset Summer Rally at Corfe Castle (Norden Campsite) is a prime example of pure ignorance.. a Fantastic Rally, fantastic entertainment, fantastic Site, Fantastic, members in a fantastic area. with superb host`s, who couldn`t do enough for you, the organisation was superb.. but it ran into double figures the NON Turner Uppers. :cry:

The site owners went to the trouble of getting the rally field all nicely mown, and put extra rubbish wheely bins out for us... but I believe they have asked Jez & Lin to do another rally next year... and I hope they will not be too disheartened by the Non Turner upper, and run it again next year..

I for one will love to return... (y)

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Jul 25, 2013
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I've been reading about how good the rally was and also about the none attendances and I' afraid I was one of them, I've just gone back through the thread and I put mine and my wife's name down quite a while ago but with everything that has happened since it was forgotten, from my point and for people with a lot going on in life a prompt nearer the time would of helped, this is not making excuses but a idea.
apologies to Jez & Lyn for not turning up i can see I missed a great meet
Dave
 

old-mo

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Any Rally, or come to think of it.... anything I have to do out of the norm, I pencil on a "Calendar"..

As for a prompt,,,, the rally was bought to the top of the Rally/Meets forum on a regular basis. even when the rally was up and running..

Regarding a Prompt,,,, the only way that could be done was if the Rally organiser were to PM all those who have appended names to the list of who is going/coming...

Which in my opinion would put an extra work load on the organiser...

Perhaps Jim could format a reminder type thing at the top of the page.... So as we sign in or go on Fun website it is the first thing you see.. some thing on the lines of =

THIS COMING WEEKEND is the start of ********* Rally/Show...

Just an idea.. :)

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Jul 5, 2013
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Here is a simple way I think that punishes the transgressors whilst not those that have done what they should. Let's call it "name and shame".

Why should the organiser not publish in the forum a list of people who booked and then did not turn up without having the courtesy to contact and say why? I suggest this is done a week after the end of the rally/meet, to give people who really were sick time to make contact (or get somebody else to).

We can then all see who these rude people are. It will, of course, also give them the opportunity to belated apologise to the organisers and the funsters on the waiting list for not turning up.

Whether we are busy or not it takes no more than a few seconds to put the dates in your calendar or diary as soon as you put your name down.
 
Feb 24, 2013
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I will join the many who find no shows simply rude, however, Dave (Busman) I think you are brave to poke your head above the parapet and say 'I forgot' but I also think is likely to be a major factor

We lead stupidly busy lives, retired or working, and need some kind of prompt for most things, I went to Bills Fix it Meet last month, then put my name down for the repeat which is still 11 months away, I haven't got next years calendar to put it on and will be in serious danger of forgetting all about it

I do not want to add anything to the burden of time and cost to the organisers, or for that mater offend Jim and his helpers with even more forum mods, but....

I get text reminders for doctors, dentists, even hairdressers, it would be great if a cross link somehow could pick up booked attendees through the forum somehow, then send out a automated PM which has to be replied to say 90 days and 14 days before the event

I do recognise that automation still needs some input somewhere to make it work, but just a thought, from one with rapidly fading memory function

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cliffandger

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I do agree with yout last bit though and think there's not enough of that goes on said:
One of our favourite weekends away was your 'flash meet' at Bromsgrove - brilliant weekend with minimal amount of organisation, just good company, good pub, and brilliant karaoke! Looking forward to B and B though, see you soon.
 
Oct 1, 2013
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I think part of the problem is that some folk will add themselves months in advance and innocently forget. Some threads have hundreds of replies and can become a bit confusing.

How about having a parallel thread, just with name of potential attendees.
Then the organiser could send everybody a PM a couple of weeks before the event to get an idea of who is gonna turn up.
Assume no reply = no show.

It won't be 100% exact, but will be better than waiting and guessing.





Oops, I was having a sensible moment. Normal service will be resumed ASAP

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Steve

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i was going to vote but changed my mind. would deposits be transferable? that way then it would be your problem not the rally administrator. Taking deposits the retuning them is going to be a lot more work.
Steve
 

Wildman

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I have never been to a meet but am looking forward to going to Ilfracombe in August. Am I told where the site is before I go or do I just turn up and hope I find it somewhere? Who do I contact to find out without going through the general forum? If I find I may "no show" who do I tell? As a newbie it is unchartered territory for me!
Hi Jon, and a general reply the site address is in all of my posts and indeed in the original rally post. Assuming you are on the list, just let the marshal know if you cannot make it and he will remove your name from the list. That way I am not sat waiting at the gate for someone who is not going to arrive. For the record I am not in favour of deposits. I do however get rather upset when there is a lot of no shows without explaination. It is rude and I take it personally, daft I know but that's just me.
 
Sep 23, 2013
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I think we need to consider why people didn't turn up. What are the possible reasons?

1. Put their name down many months ago, forgot that they had done so, never read the thread again because in their mind, they weren't going.
2. Put their name down many months ago, had a change of plan, forgot that they hadn't posted to cancel, never read the thread again because in their mind, they weren't going.
3. Knew they were on the list, had every intention of going, emergency happens which prevents attendance & also distracts to the extent they forget to notify the enforced change of plan.
4. Knew they were on the list, had every intention of going, just forgot to turn up. Yes - I'm sure it genuinely happens.
5. Knew they were in the list, changed their mind, didn't realise how important it was to inform the organisers.
6. Knew they were in the list, changed their mind, knew how important it was to inform the organisers, but couldn't give a damn.

Funsters are a good bunch - I can't believe that there are many who are in no. 6.

While a deposit would concentrate the mind & to some extent compensates for any potential financial loss, it's treating the symptom, not the cause. We want those people at the rally, or someone else in their place. We don't just want to penalise the empty places. Deposits add considerably to the administrative load for both parties unless a very slick on-line system can be devised.

We need to do the research to understand the problem, then look for solutions. I'm sure we can find ways of minimising most of the above. Once the new forum software settles down & we see how the new calender system works, we may find tools there that are more pro-active - people will be reminded, rather than having to remember.

Everyone who fails to turn up needs to be contacted & asked what went wrong. Not in a accusatory fashion - we want truthful answers, not invented excuses. For that reason, it would probably be better if the contact was from someone other than the rally organiser. I would suggest Jim, as the only person with any official standing, but I suspect he will have more pressing calls on his time over the next few weeks!

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dryad

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personally i don't think it would be fair to put that responsibility onto jim to contact non attendees, he has far too much to do with keeping this site going..
would be better coming from the organiser of the meet surely?
 

Gromett

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I think the new events organiser module solves a lot of the issues with reminders, dates and are you on the list. We are sorting out advanced search database etc today but I think the events organiser is on the list of things to look at and explain better. It does have lots of features. I will post more once we have full details of this.
 
Sep 23, 2013
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That's good news - I thought that might be the case. That should help a lot with tackling the problem - I'm sure that it's not deliberate rudeness in the vast majority of cases.

The problem has been highlighted at just the right time, because it suggests that we need to make full use of whatever the events organiser offers. I'm sure it will influence the decisions you & Jim take when fine tuning the available facilities.

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Wildman

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£20 per unit or per person? Per unit is more punitive for the solo traveller.


What would happen to the money collected from non-arrivals? Twenty-five no shows would amount to a whopping £500 !

!!
2 points there and bear in mind I am against taking deposits.
Remember there is a difference between a rally/meet and the same at a paid show.
1)Deposit per person or per unit would depend on how the rally was charged per person or unit. In my case its per unit, I don't see a problem in failing to charge extra for couples (or dogs, awnings, toad, trailer etc). It is the van that takes up the space.

point 2
What would happen to the money collected from non-arrivals? Twenty-five no shows would amount to a whopping £500 !
Exactly a dent of £500 in the rally organisers/land owners income without a deposit any payments for food, trophies, drink etc still have to be paid for.
Whilst I charge a bare minimum for my rallies it does form part of my gross annual income, without it the costs of running the CL would be more than the income from it.£5 a day for a campsite is not unreasonable before someone says anything either. Sites either side of me range from £12 - £30. Its the location but I have held my price for 4 years.

But its not all to do with money, my 65th retirement party was totally free yet still had a 50% no show, I was upset for weeks and at one time said I'd never put myself in the position of being let down again.

It is not possible as far as I know to bulk email everyone on the list to remind them they have booked, that's what your diaries and personal organisers are for. Every year I say it will be my last and one year it will be.
 

runrig

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Hi

Can I add my twopennath to this thread, after having just organised the Misterton Rally we (the marshalls) have no intention of taking deposits for this or any other rally we organise. We had 5 no shows and none of these sent cancellation messages, 1 sent a message on Saturday which gave us no chance of offering a place to anyone on a reserve list (which we didn't).
We intend to PM the no show members as to why they did not notify us that they were not attending this meet, watch this space. However the funsters who attended appeared to have a good time as did we, so its their loss, it must be remembered that marshalls have a life outside FUN and also have problems in their own personal lives i.e. sickness and bereavements etc., so a little thought would be appreciated.
 

Gromett

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It is not possible as far as I know to bulk email everyone on the list to remind them they have booked, that's what your diaries and personal organisers are for. Every year I say it will be my last and one year it will be.
The new event manager software has a built in RSVP system which I believe allows the event owner to send messages to all attendees. This is a module you will like a lot I think. Please be patient with us as we want to ensure it is totally right before launching it as we don't want people to enter a load of data then us have to reset it half way through. As Jim said we tried to get the forum migration done as quickly as possible and then add to it later. This is like doing surgery on a live patient without anaesthetic. The patient keeps popping his head up and asking questions :p:LOL::LOL::LOL: I think this module is 1-3 days out now judging by the list of things we have to clear.

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