What gearbox for a Smart on A Frame (1 Viewer)

[sallylillian]

The title says it all. I have read conflicting reports on here, can you, and more importantly do you have you, towed a Smart with an auto box on an A frame without problems??
Thanks.

 

[Traveller_HA5_3DOM]

I think it depends on which auto box is fitted. The new cars have a six speed double clutch box which is never really in neutral. The older robotised box had a manual box that which permitted neutral to be selected. What difference does this make you ask? On the new ones it means that the gearbox cogs will be rotating at a speed that will cause the oil to boil when you are towing it at 60 mph.

 

[Lofty1]

I cannot comment on that particular setup, but did do a lot of towing with auto boxes only major problem I had was in snow as without engine braking control could get hairy, also if you plan to do a lot of hill work ensure that the gearbox has a oil temp warning light and that the kick down works properly.
If you use your gears instead of making the engine labour then you should not have any problems.

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[Judge Mental]

If you buy new/ nearly new get the manual. Far better car anyway as gearbox (both manual and auto) + ride much improved. Front suspension now from a Mercedes C compact.

 

[sallylillian]

I think it depends on which auto box is fitted. The new cars have a six speed double clutch box which is never really in neutral. The older robotised box had a manual box that which permitted neutral to be selected. What difference does this make you ask? On the new ones it means that the gearbox cogs will be rotating at a speed that will cause the oil to boil when you are towing it at 60 mph.

Thanks, can you advise the year that the auto box becomes a no no?

 

[Lofty1]

miss read again, must pay attention , thought it said towing with an auto box DOH!

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[sallylillian]

If new buy the manual. Far better car as gearbox and ride much improved. Front suspension now from a Mercedes C compact.

Thanks Judge, trouble is new they are eye watering for what you get? I have seen a 2013, and a 2014 high spec, but Autos??

 

[Minxy]

The new version of the Smart ForTwo has the different gearbox, the model of Smart you ideally want is a 451 (2006 to 2014 I believe) as this is the (newest model) one that people tow. These Smarts are either made with either semi-auto or a semi-auto/full-auto box (ie you can choose which you want to use it as).

I haven't driven the 'new' Smart ForTwo so the ride etc quality 'may' be better than the 451s which I have - they are IMV good anyway.

You MUST make sure that they are definitely in neutral though when to tow otherwise you'll have a very expensive repair!

 

[Judge Mental]

Can get a new shape 2015 for approx 9k. I'm buying a 2014 old shape high spec this week for 6300'ish

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[sallylillian]

When I home in on something judge I may PM you with the details for a critique.

 

[Minxy]

Thanks Judge, trouble is new they are eye watering for what you get? I have seen a 2013, and a 2014 high spec, but Autos??

They will be the 451 as I mentioned above, so no problem at all with these, they were ONLY made with some 'form' of auto anyway so you won't get a manual one. Many people tow them behind their motorhomes - I haven't but I've never needed to.

The 451 Smart comes in 3 basic models - Pure (base), Pulse (mid), and Passion (top) although there are some variants such as Brabus (souped up!), Grandstyle (based on a Passion) etc. They usually have a 1L petrol engine (forget the diesel one ... it's cr@p!) and have 61bhp (Pure) or 71bhp (Pulse/Passion) or 84bhp (Pulse/Passion). The 61bhp and 71bhp usually have the MHD (stop/start system) but it's nothing special, we always turn it off on ours!

If you want to let me know which you've seen for sale I can try to help you with what they are/have got so you can compare them easier.

 

[robnchris]

Can get a new shape 2015 for approx 9k. I'm buying a 2014 old shape high spec this week for 6300'ish

Can`t help thinking you could hire a lot of cars for this sort of cash and save all the hassle of towing!!

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[sallylillian]

They will be the 451 as I mentioned above, so no problem at all with these, they were ONLY made with some 'form' of auto anyway so you won't get a manual one. Many people tow them behind their motorhomes - I haven't but I've never needed to.

The 451 Smart comes in 3 basic models - Pure (base), Pulse (mid), and Passion (top) although there are some variants such as Brabus (souped up!), Grandstyle (based on a Passion) etc. They usually have a 1L petrol engine (forget the diesel one ... it's cr@p!) and have 61bhp (Pure) or 71bhp (Pulse/Passion) or 84bhp (Pulse/Passion). The 61bhp and 71bhp usually have the MHD (stop/start system) but it's nothing special, we always turn it off on ours!

If you want to let me know which you've seen for sale I can try to help you with what they are/have got so you can compare them easier.

Thanks Minxy, thats a great offer. I have a mint 2008 with only 7k miles Copen that we will trade, I'd love to A Frame it but its too complicated.

 

[Judge Mental]

Can`t help thinking you could hire a lot of cars for this sort of cash and save all the hassle of towing!!

I've sold van i need a small easy to park car to get me to dialysis 3 days a week...if I eventually get a transplant I will buy a van and trailer

 

[Minxy]

If you've already got the car you might want to consider just getting an a-frame fitted as it will be either a semi-auto or auto already (unless of course it's a semi and you WANT a full-auto one).

I've PMd you.

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[Jaws]

Errrrrrr...
None of them are automatic !!

What they are is a manual gearbox that is very cleverly electronically controlled.

I have had every model apart from the crossblade, have spent hours and a silly amount of money tuning them, building the lumps and doing weird things with the clutch to make them change quicker etc, so do know them quite well

I would avoid pre 2004 models as they are rhe 600cc ones and not quite as good as the 700cc and later jobbies

Any of them can be towed providing they are in neutral

 

[Judge Mental]

Errrrrrr...
None of them are automatic !!

What they are is a manual gearbox that is very cleverly electronically controlled.

I have had every model apart from the crossblade, have spent hours and a silly amount of money tuning them, building the lumps and doing weird things with the clutch to make them change quicker etc, so do know them quite well

I would avoid pre 2004 models as they are rhe 600cc ones and not quite as good as the 700cc and later jobbies

Any of them can be towed providing they are in neutral

From 2015 new twin clutch auto a full auto!. And a £250 road tax bill according to Minx. Manual and early semi auto 0 tax

 

[Minxy]

Errrrrrr...
None of them are automatic !!

What they are is a manual gearbox that is very cleverly electronically controlled.

... Any of them can be towed providing they are in neutral

The 451 and earlier models ARE automatic (semi/full) in the sense that they do not need you to change gear using a clutch ... you are talking about what METHOD is employed by the manufacturer to facilitate this - in the 'purest' sense they are not like a conventional auto but that doesn't mean they are not autos.

I can't speak for the new models as I haven't delved too deeply into their ins/outs as I don't like the look of them.

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[Jaws]

Dunno about 2015 models.. Certainly 2012-13 ones are as I say..
Not had any that were zero road tax.. All mine have been either £20 or £30 jobbies.. But then I do tend to go for the more powerful versions of each

 

[sallylillian]

If you've already got the car you might want to consider just getting an a-frame fitted as it will be either a semi-auto or auto already (unless of course it's a semi and you WANT a full-auto one).

I've PMd you.

No I have Daihatsu Copen, not a Smart at the moment, I shall trade the Copen.

 

[Minxy]

From 2015 new twin clutch auto a full auto!. And a £250 road tax bill according to Minx. Manual and early semi auto 0 tax

Eddie ... up to approx £250 for other MAKES of auto, not Smart!

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[Jaws]

The 451 and earlier models ARE automatic (semi/full) in the sense that they do not need you to change gear using a clutch ... you are talking about what METHOD is employed by the manufacturer to facilitate this - in the 'purest' sense they are not like a conventional auto but that doesn't mean they are not autos.

I can't speak for the new models as I haven't delved too deeply into their ins/outs as I don't like the look of them.

My present 451 has got the 6 speed manual in it .. It is a 2010
I am swapping it for another one when I get home for a slightly lower mileage one for Woman.
I have been told it has the 5 speed which means it will indeed be automatic,.yet it is the same year and same model
So I guess I was rash saying NONE are auto...

 

[Minxy]

No I have Daihatsu Copen, not a Smart at the moment, I shall trade the Copen.

Oh I see, I thought you'd just done a typo when you said "I have a mint 2008 with only 7k miles Copen that we will trade", I thought you meant "hoping that we will trade"!

I've never heard of a Diahatsu Copen! Have you considered just getting a trailer for the Copen instead?

 

[Judge Mental]

Eddie ... up to approx £250 for other MAKES of auto, not Smart!

Hmm.....I bow to your considerable knowledge on all things Smart

so smart full auto tax free then?

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[Minxy]

Hmm.....I bow to your considerable knowledge on all things Smart

so smart full auto tax free then?

It depends! From what I can tell if you go for the 451 models (upto 2015) it differs depending on the age of the car and the bhp, but it appears to be a maximum of £30 a year so won't break the bank.

The new ones (2015 onwards) have either a .9L or 1L engine but it appears that both fall into category 'A' for road tax so £0 but please do check this for yourself as I'm not well versed in the new versions!

 

[Minxy]

My present 451 has got the 6 speed manual in it .. It is a 2010
I am swapping it for another one when I get home for a slightly lower mileage one for Woman.
I have been told it has the 5 speed which means it will indeed be automatic,.yet it is the same year and same model
So I guess I was rash saying NONE are auto...

I've got a nice black 2010 cabrio with semi/full-auto option for sale ....

Broken Link Removed

 

[tonyidle]

Errrrrrr...
None of them are automatic !!

What they are is a manual gearbox that is very cleverly electronically controlled.

I have had every model apart from the crossblade, have spent hours and a silly amount of money tuning them, building the lumps and doing weird things with the clutch to make them change quicker etc, so do know them quite well

Excellent! Any tips you'd like to share? I'd like to harden the changes & stop flare on 1/2 and 2/3 changes. And anything else that improves the feel of the car (which nominally belongs to my wife). I have a 451 and you can offer complex solutions.

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[tonyidle]

My present 451 has got the 6 speed manual in it .. It is a 2010
I am swapping it for another one when I get home for a slightly lower mileage one for Woman.
I have been told it has the 5 speed which means it will indeed be automatic,.yet it is the same year and same model
So I guess I was rash saying NONE are auto...

Mine is 5 speed robotic?

 

[Traveller_HA5_3DOM]

I have recently ordered one of the new 453 Auto forfour cars with the six speed dual clutch Auto. As I understand it when the car is in first gear neutral and second are also engaged in mesh but the second clutch keeps the power from them. When the sensors select second both clutches change roles from engaged to disengaged. So it also has first and third available on the other drive train to be used when the sensors switch to it.
It is a little like having two gearboxes one containing a false neutral, as it is called and 2nd. The other with 1st and 3rd and so on up or down the box it gets the options ready. It just means that the next gear up or down is always at the ready. The down side, if there is one, is as I understand it that the gear train for second gear will continue to be rotated when in neutral. So if towed at 60 mph it would be like having 2nd gear engaged at 60 mph even if neutral is selected. Hence the tenancy to overheat the oil and the consequences of it.

 

[Jaws]

Excellent! Any tips you'd like to share? I'd like to harden the changes & stop flare on 1/2 and 2/3 changes. And anything else that improves the feel of the car (which nominally belongs to my wife). I have a 451 and you can offer complex solutions.

Not too complex Tony..
There are some easy ones that partially work such as delipping the air intake which fools the air speed sensors and smooths out changes, and you can change things quite a bit with a different program
You can also stop some of the surging by changing the length of the actuating arm from the clutch solenoid but that is a bit of a pain as you really need to pull the box off to do the work

Do you know which tic pipe you have ?

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