What effect does remapping your engine have on insurance

[chenderson1965]

Hi.

We are looking to buy a reasonably large a class motorhome in the 4000 kg to 5000 kg range. Many were looking at seem to have a 2.3 citron engine with around 130bhp And I’m concerned that this may be a bit underpowered.

One solution for this would be to get the engine remapped which looks like it could get it up to 150 BHP to 180 bhp together with a useful uplift in torque.

Do you have to notify your insurance company if you do this? If so, what sort of impact does it have on premiums?

Also, whilst not in insurance related question, what sort of impact does this have on the longevity and fuel economy of the engine? Are there any other reasons why it might not be a good idea?

Thanks.

Chris

 

[pappajohn]

Insurers in general aren't bothered but tell them anyway, even if they do increase premiums.
If you don't and have an accident the assessor may just have the ECU interrogated resulting in a rejected claim.

 

[Lenny HB]

If it is the same engine as the Fiat 2.3 I wouldn't bother with the 130 on a van of that weight. Even if you get remapped it won't overcome the lack of power at low revs due to the standard turbo. The 150 & 180 versions have a variable vane turbo it makes a huge difference to engine response at low revs.

 

[Phill D]

Had mine 130 remapped and told insurance, no issues not cost.

 

[KUSKUS]

I had mine remapped from 184 to 224 and Saga were ok, no extra premium.

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[robnchris]

If it is the same engine as the Fiat 2.3 I wouldn't bother with the 130 on a van of that weight. Even if you get remapped it won't overcome the lack of power at low revs due to the standard turbo. The 150 & 180 versions have a variable vane turbo it makes a huge difference to engine response at low revs.

Sorry Lenny but have to say you are mis-informed we had our 130 remapped at 5000 miles and it is now a different vehicle to drive, before it was dreadful but know a pleasure to drive.

 

[TerryL]

For a van of that weight I'd not be happy with less than a 150hp engine as standard, preferably higher. Remapping, despite what some would tell you, doesn't always work as well as you may wish so why start with a disadvantage? In the price bracket I believe you're aiming at there should be plenty with the bigger engine.

Our Swift has the 130hp engine at 3850kg MAUW and I'm generally quite happy with that, but there are occasions when I wish I had just a bit more urge. I think about remapping every time this type of thread comes up but then wonder about the rest of the mechanicals, clutch, cooling system etc. I read on here that people who have gone down this route have not experienced any problems but my van is now 12 years and 108,000 miles old.............

As long as you let them know, and they acknowledge it, I don't think insurance companies are too concerned. It's not as if we're boy racers!

 

[Lenny HB]

Sorry Lenny but have to say you are mis-informed we had our 130 remapped at 5000 miles and it is now a different vehicle to drive, before it was dreadful but know a pleasure to drive.

What's it like on a hairpin on 1 in 4 gradients, that's where I found a standard 130 fell over and that was only with a 3500kg van.

 

[robnchris]

What's it like on a hairpin on 1 in 4 gradients, that's where I found a standard 130 fell over and that was only with a 3500kg van.

Haven't got a clue but would say a 1 in 4 gradient is pretty steep and driving a 130 remapped or not would be a challenge.
All i'm saying is before remapping our new Apache with it's 130 engine was dire, only 21mpg and even the hills on A30 through Cornwall made for constant changing down in the gearbox, just unpleasant to drive.
Since the remap and obviously now being run in we get an average of 27mpg and the vehicle cruises down the A30.

 

[buttons]

Haven't got a clue but would say a 1 in 4 gradient is pretty steep and driving a 130 remapped or not would be a challenge.
All i'm saying is before remapping our new Apache with it's 130 engine was dire, only 21mpg and even the hills on A30 through Cornwall made for constant changing down in the gearbox, just unpleasant to drive.
Since the remap and obviously now being run in we get an average of 27mpg and the vehicle cruises down the A30.

Obvious question is...if there only positives in re-mapping then why don't the manufacture's deliver vehicles with your mapping. I wont buy into the nonsense that motorhomes are a different beast to white vans. If there are no negatives then what is the point of the manufacturers setting a vehicle up to have less power and reduced economy.

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[Lenny HB]

Obvious question is...if there only positives in re-mapping then why don't the manufacture's deliver vehicles with your mapping. I wont buy into the nonsense that motorhomes are a different beast to white vans. If there are no negatives then what is the point of the manufacturers setting a vehicle up to have less power and reduced economy.

To add to that, they go to the extent of producing gearboxes with different ratios, wider track chassis with rear anti-roll bars speciality for Motorhomes so if there was benefit from different engine mapping I'm sure they would have done it.

 

[funflair]

Obvious question is...if there only positives in re-mapping then why don't the manufacture's deliver vehicles with your mapping. I wont buy into the nonsense that motorhomes are a different beast to white vans. If there are no negatives then what is the point of the manufacturers setting a vehicle up to have less power and reduced economy.

Valid question, I guess the answer is that the manufacturer has to design the engine to perform for many 100s of thousand miles where most Motorhomes never see 200 thousand and when I say perform that is both in terms of power and emissions and under worst case scenario of poor fuel quality high altitude, heat, extreme cold and lead footed drivers.

When we say “it performs much better” we never measure emissions figures.

Martin

 

[robnchris]

Obvious question is...if there only positives in re-mapping then why don't the manufacture's deliver vehicles with your mapping. I wont buy into the nonsense that motorhomes are a different beast to white vans. If there are no negatives then what is the point of the manufacturers setting a vehicle up to have less power and reduced economy.

Isn't it something to do with Euro restrictions on engine power?

 

[TheBig1]

remapping puts extra stress on the gearbox and wears the already weak clutch quicker

manufacturers put a map on that achieves required emmissions targets

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

manufacturers put a map on that achieves required emmissions targets

or they just lie about them! ?

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[mike mcglynn]

I told my insurance co. And it was just noted on file no charge ,but always tell them as if they can find a fault they will reject any claims.

 

[buttons]

Isn't it something to do with Euro restrictions on engine power?

I doubt that robnchris. Unless someone can point out this Euro restriction on engine power.

 

[buttons]

remapping puts extra stress on the gearbox and wears the already weak clutch quicker

manufacturers put a map on that achieves required emmissions targets

So re-mapped engines are outside emission targets. Will this show up during the MOT.

 

[Lenny HB]

remapping puts extra stress on the gearbox and wears the already weak clutch quicker

And the brakes, no one appears to upgrade the brakes when they do a remap but if you but the manufacturers 150 version it has upgraded brakes.
I remember the brakes on the 130 I had weren't that good compared to the two 150's I've had.

 

[funflair]

So re-mapped engines are outside emission targets. Will this show up during the MOT.

As far as I know most motorhomes are outside emission figures anyway as the van chassis was tested and approved as such and then somebody stuck a great big brick of a body on the back, do motorhome CofC have emission figures?

No it does not show up at MOT time unless it is a very bad map/chip.

Martin

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[funflair]

And the brakes, no one appears to upgrade the brakes when they do a remap but if you but the manufacturers 150 version it has upgraded brakes.
I remember the brakes on the 130 I had weren't that good compared to the two 150's I've had.

I don't imagine anybody remaps a motorhome for outright speed, more likely for a bit better hill climbing and pulling away so not something that needs a brake upgrade IMO, now upgrading a weight plate would be completely different.

Martin

 

[The Wino]

I think the reason why is how much money the makers get for selling power upgrades especially if theres next to no cost involved. Interesting how quickly the blame the EU cropped up!!!!!

 

[robnchris]

Obvious question is...if there only positives in re-mapping then why don't the manufacture's deliver vehicles with your mapping. I wont buy into the nonsense that motorhomes are a different beast to white vans. If there are no negatives then what is the point of the manufacturers setting a vehicle up to have less power and reduced economy.

Isn't it something to do with Euro restrictions on engine power?

I think the reason why is how much money the makers get for selling power upgrades especially if theres next to no cost involved. Interesting how quickly the blame the EU cropped up!!!!!

Who blamed the EU?

 

[robnchris]

remapping puts extra stress on the gearbox and wears the already weak clutch quicker

manufacturers put a map on that achieves required emmissions targets

Just a thought isn't the 2.3 150bhp engine the same engine as the 2.3 130bhp?
Hence the bearings and all other internals are the same as would be the gearbox and clutch.
They just boost the BHP by a different mapped ECU and turbo.

 

[pelican]

Just a thought isn't the 2.3 150bhp engine the same engine as the 2.3 130bhp?
Hence the bearings and all other internals are the same as would be the gearbox and clutch.
They just boost the BHP by a different mapped ECU and turbo.

Very good point I wonder who could supply the info.

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[Servo]

There will be 20 different correct answers

Very good point I wonder who could supply the info.

 

[tuscancouple]

There will be 20 different correct answers

And all will sound plausible!

Mick

 

[Lawvar]

Hi all I run a small fleet of knackerd old vans.
I also have a motorbike that has been re mapped.
My next door neighbour had is toureg mapped.
CONCLUSION
re mapping motorbike ok due to it NOT having to comply to euro emissions test for mot this is why there was a benefit as the bike is slightly strangled for emissions regs not a huge increase in power but smoother running and throttle response .
The bike is PETROL though.
Diesel is different extra power available due to more diesel being pumped into cylinders when needed. Some plug in devises just fool the ecu into thinking the outside temperature is colder resulting in a richer air fuel mix.
Speaking to a few mechanics NON of them recommended going down this route for my commercial vans due to reliability issues including piston and valve problems.
Generally speaking similar engines with different BHP do have engine differences in cooling /valves and uprated ancillaries.
Lets be clear if there was a magic solution to make engines
more powerfull
more economical
more reliable
the manufacturers would be doing it apart from the fact they have multi million/billion budgets how can stan from your local corner garage with a YTS trainee improve on this without any consequences ?
The consequences are reliability you may be lucky or you may not the choice is yours !
My next door neighbour did ok with his toureg over 2 years but how long before issues start to creep up I dont know.
There are plenty of people who have had their car chipped or re mapped with blown engines the same ones that are fitted to motorhomes.
Hope this helps there is no such thing as a free lunch or something like that !

 

[TinaLes]

Looks like the latest 2019 Ducato engines are 2.3 Eurojet2 6D .
They are available in 140/160/180 BHP versions and designed to be married to the new 9 speed auto boxes, with higher torque and more fuel efficiency.(allegedly)
So the 130/150 have been superseded along with the old comfortmatic gearboxes.
I guess they are AdBlue also.
I havent seen the new 9 speed auto boxes as yet, has any one else?, I guess they are still robotised jobbies, but hope they are DSG types as on German Cars as they are amazing.

Les

 

[joka250]

Looks like the latest 2019 Ducato engines are 2.3 Eurojet2 6D .
They are available in 140/160/180 BHP versions and designed to be married to the new 9 speed auto boxes, with higher torque and more fuel efficiency.(allegedly)
So the 130/150 have been superseded along with the old comfortmatic gearboxes.
I guess they are AdBlue also.
I havent seen the new 9 speed auto boxes as yet, has any one else?, I guess they are still robotised jobbies, but hope they are DSG types as on German Cars as they are amazing.

Les

The new 9 speed is a good and durable torque converter box which I believe will be superior to any robotised manuals and I love the Comfortmatic.

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