We are going to chance not fixing it spend £'s travelling instead (1 Viewer)

[DavidG58]

Aah the good old days. Brand new Daimler V12 crate engine with all anciliaries, new radiator & auto gearbox overhaul,£2500 total. Brothers car shipped back from Germany where the garage had got it wrong.



Why not ask the motorhome manuf. have they any suggestions ? Not likely I know but worth the ask.

I have suggested that the Mercedes dealer asks Hymer, on the basis that any technical reply would be lost on me , I intend to ask Mercedes to at least consider contributing to the cost of the part, £1200 plus fitting at only 20000 miles is not good, we run Mercedes cars privately due to reliability

 

[Badknee]

There are a lot of commercial vans that had to have the engines dropped out of them, Fords, Commer, VW LT,Bedford TK range if I remember. Vehicle up on lift and drop the whole front suspension, engine and box out underneath.

 

[chaser]

Might have missed this but don't want to trail all though it again, so please , how old is this engine, is it a lot out of warrenty.

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[funflair]

There are a lot of commercial vans that had to have the engines dropped out of them, Fords, Commer, VW LT,Bedford TK range if I remember. Vehicle up on lift and drop the whole front suspension, engine and box out underneath.

I would have thought the Mercedes dealer would know how to drop the motor as it only a standard Sprinter chassis its all sat on.

 

[funflair]

Might have missed this but don't want to trail all though it again, so please , how old is this engine, is it a lot out of warrenty.

Low mileage but a few years old and out of warranty YES, I think David is looking for a goodwill gesture.

Martin

 

[DavidG58]

Might have missed this but don't want to trail all though it again, so please , how old is this engine, is it a lot out of warrenty.

as Martin has already added, out of warranty

Chassis appears to be 07, Hymer build in 07/08, registered 59 plate, first owner barely used it, we bought it Feb 2013 with 2000 miles on clock, now just popped over 20000 miles, 18000 in our three years serviced every year with Mercedes parts but not by Mercedes, but as the turbo is a non serviceable item that is virtually irrelevant

I was going to ask for support from Mercedes purely because nothing ventured definitely nothing gained

We were quoted £1300 + VAT by our Toyota dealer last year for an air conditioning pump on our 4 year old 20K miles works van, I asked them to ask Toyota for help, cost us £100 in the end I was more upset that the dealer had not thought to ask himself

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[DavidG58]

I would have thought the Mercedes dealer would know how to drop the motor as it only a standard Sprinter chassis its all sat on.

I am sure they do, the problem they have I think is pricing the job, on a standard Sprinter the open the bonnet and do it from above, there is no fixed hour rate for engine out then change the turbo, case of computer says no

 

[Puddleduck]

Worth asking @DavidG58 if they say "Nein" you have only lost the cost of a phone call or a stamp. I've found manufacturers are generally happy to help (perhaps just with advice which can be more valuable than cash) if approached in the right way.

 

[chaser]

as Martin has already added, out of warranty

Chassis appears to be 07, Hymer build in 07/08, registered 59 plate, first owner barely used it, we bought it Feb 2013 with 2000 miles on clock, now just popped over 20000 miles, 18000 in our three years serviced every year with Mercedes parts but not by Mercedes, but as the turbo is a non serviceable item that is virtually irrelevant

I was going to ask for support from Mercedes purely because nothing ventured definitely nothing gained

We were quoted £1300 + VAT by our Toyota dealer last year for an air conditioning pump on our 4 year old 20K miles works van, I asked them to ask Toyota for help, cost us £100 in the end I was more upset that the dealer had not thought to ask himself

Really feel for you mate, my son in law has his own garage business and deals with quite a few firms that run merc vans , there's nearly always one in that needs the same as yours, he can usually bodge them up (what the customer asks for) with second hand bits, but they certainly are a pain from what is supposed to be class vans.

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[DavidG58]

Worth asking @DavidG58 if they say "Nein" you have only lost the cost of a phone call or a stamp. I've found manufacturers are generally happy to help (perhaps just with advice which can be more valuable than cash) if approached in the right way.

A stamp, how quaint Helen

email for me and I foolishly always expect a reply in minutes

 

[gus-lopez]

email for me and I foolishly always expect a reply in minutes

You've obviously never dealt with a spaniard ? An actual reply is a bonus. Even the following year.

 

[mitzimad]

i cant see why all the garages are so loath to do it i would assume the tubo is quite low down on the engine so its possible it will not have to come right out its a nut and bolt job rather than tech

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[DavidG58]

i cant see why all the garages are so loath to do it i would assume the tubo is quite low down on the engine so its possible it will not have to come right out its a nut and bolt job rather than tech

As I understand it the turbo is right on top, pinned up under the dashboard which appears to be bonded in, they can hardly reach it through the A class letter box bonnet, let alone get it out, but I have no idea and have to trust their word, but now the same from 2 workshops

 

[tonyidle]

Different I know but dropping the engine / gearbox on my Talbot Express-based Tabbert A Class to change the clutch took around two hours without the benefit of a vehicle lift. At that point the engine / gearbox was totally disconnected from the vehicle and on a sheet of plywood on the ground. Replacement took about the same length of time. And my 'blue-arsed fly' days are well over.

 

[funflair]

Hi David

I was trying to find out where it was earlier today and decided about middle of the V at the back so yes not easy access.

Cut a big hole under the dash and then make good after would be tempting as dropping the motor a bit is not going to give good access. As long as there is no steel there a pretty easy job I would thinnk.

That's how @teamyob (might be facts) got to his heater plugs on his V6 Frankia.

Martin

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[jtp890]

Just to add to confusion, I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee, and limp mode was activated by mobile phone mast. Also watched a programme that showed a Harley davison refusing to start after stopping at garage, with mast, pushed it 50yds, started no problem.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

If this fault is an intermittent one and the code says turbo issue, then it is very unlikely to be the turbo itself as they are a straight forwards mechanical unit,They work or do not work however If it has an electronic wastegate or variable vane system then the electronics are more likely to fault and as it is on/off type breakdown then what are the circumstances that lead to the fault happening, is it wet/dry hot /cold etc and does this occur at the same time and circumstance as previous happenings.. I would look a the VERY BASIC first. What is the EARTH like on the vehicle and the ECU and the wiring to the turbo controllers and servos.
ANY EARTHS, take the off and clean them to bare metal check continuity and then refit with a good bolt/ connection. This applies to all the earths including(especially) to the chassis to engine gearbox. MH are notorious for sitting around and that is when the corrosion happens. Have a look at all these points and get a small tube of ACF50 to dose the ECU connection block and put on the cleaned earths to protect against water and dampness in general. This is well worth doing as it costs nothing and MIGHT fix the fault.

 

[DavidG58]

@GWAYGWAY

I am very grateful for the info, but it is all way over my head, problem is yet again it is in a workshop, this time a full Mercedes dealership set up as suggested by a good few, I am not qualified to go in and tell them where to look

I think they said it was a turbo exhaust valve, if that even exists or makes sense, I am awaiting their opinion on what they suggest doing tomorrow, I would like to think they would have tried the obvious, they certainly do not seem keen to remove the engine

edit - they have already said that if they do the work and the fault does not go they will refund the costs, better get that in writing before they start I reckon

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[funflair]

Hi David

The turbo exhaust valve they refer to will be the wastegate, this basically vents exhaust gasses before the turbo to limit boost pressure, if this was sticking on full throttle/high boost the system will register an overboost and could invoke the limp mode to protect the engine.

Martin

 

[DavidG58]

Hi David

The turbo exhaust valve they refer to will be the wastegate, this basically vents exhaust gasses before the turbo to limit boost pressure, if this was sticking on full throttle/high boost the system will register an overboost and could invoke the limp mode to protect the engine.

Martin

I have been monitoring it as best I can, it always seems to go on over run, so virtually no throttle, one reassurance I seem to have is that on full throttle it never fails, although I did think it was going onto full throttle that caused it. #

I can now sense a slight change and by blipping the accelerator identify that I have no power, so mostly able to pull over safely and restart to fix (till the next time)

I do feel like I am stuck in a perpetual loop, might still go back to the title of the thread and use it till we lose it totally

 

[funflair]

I have been monitoring it as best I can, it always seems to go on over run, so virtually no throttle, one reassurance I seem to have is that on full throttle it never fails, although I did think it was going onto full throttle that caused it. #

I can now sense a slight change and by blipping the accelerator identify that I have no power, so mostly able to pull over safely and restart to fix (till the next time)

I do feel like I am stuck in a perpetual loop, might still go back to the title of the thread and use it till we lose it totally

Hi David

I thought that it was on boost that it happened but whatever the trouble is now a days there are that many sensors and things, that its not as simple as the world we used to live in, I fitted a turbo to our old Merc many years ago and it was just straight forward plumbing Garret T3 with its own wastegate, a bit more fuel, raise the automatic gearbox pressure slightly to stop it slipping and job's a good un, all competent DIY stuff.

Not anymore, laptops and computer degree required.


Martin

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[GWAYGWAY]

I was thinking about a nice new Sprinter base MH, now I'm not sure. I normally fix ALL the faults on everything I have had in the past, but a least a new one would be under warranty.

 

[Neilfg]

@DavidG58 just caught up on the latest twist and turns. Good to see that a garage have found a problem as long as you get some sort of guarantee then go for it. Not sure you will get a better option, none of the previous solutions/offers have been any better.

Other than breaking down outside Hymer factory, on a press day with Mercedes but chances of that are slim.

 

[monaco/frankia]

Hi David, I used our van on fri/sat mainly motorway and confirmed that the problem with mine is when I drop revs at say roundabout or junction and then pull away the engine is on low revs and I call for power / torque if I keep the gears down and revs up (ie engine not working hard) it will not drop into limp, mine is a manual gearbox so it would appear that when I call for boost pressure a sensor says go to limp. It has never gone to limp once above 30mph so still think mine's a electrical/ sensor problem.

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[DavidG58]

Hi David, I used our van on fri/sat mainly motorway and confirmed that the problem with mine is when I drop revs at say roundabout or junction and then pull away the engine is on low revs and I call for power / torque if I keep the gears down and revs up (ie engine not working hard) it will not drop into limp, mine is a manual gearbox so it would appear that when I call for boost pressure a sensor says go to limp. It has never gone to limp once above 30mph so still think mine's a electrical/ sensor problem.

Morning, yours is starting to sound slightly different to mine now, identical outcome, but we definitely lose power before needing it, but agree with your findings, keep some boost on, it does not drop out. If I could absolutely ensure I never need to lift off in a difficult position I would be more inclined to live with it

Will see what Mercedes have to say today

 

[Terry]

Morning David just make sure you get the money back gtee in writing before they start
They may start to put it down to a different fault if it does not work and want paying again
I have a rather nice Itineo that you could borrow if stuck -similar layout to
yours but fault free
terry

 

[jockaneezer]

I've been following this thread from the start and it's as good as a "whodunnit" novel. I eagerly await the next chapter and hopefully a happy ending, but I do sympathise with the stress it must be causing you. Anyway, to use one of my old Dad's sayings "anyone can cure a kicking horse except the man that owns it", here's my two penn'orth
If it's going off on overrun, I wonder if it's just a poor connector that's being disturbed as the engine tends to "move" around more when you lift off. I know you say access is poor and you're not "mechanically gifted" but could you get someone to check the condition of the engine mounts or maybe try "moving" the engine about ( length of timber pivoting off a jack onto the sump or something, taking precautions not to run yourself over ) to replicate the overrun scenario ?
As for a garage doing a "no fix, no fee" I would be wary. If they spend two days dropping and replacing the engine, then find it was a loose connector, you can bet they will fit all new bits anyway to recoup their costs, having said that, if it fixes your problem then it's a result of sorts. Ask for all the removed parts when the job is finished though.

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[DavidG58]

Mercedes say

The turbo waste gate valve is stuck open

There is delamination inside the manifold (a flap has broken off) resulting in constant back pressure

Possible issues with catalytic convertor and or DPF

Parts not including new cat or DPF £1950 + VAT

Fitting they cant quote till they do it due non standard access issues, however on a slightly positive twist on that, they think it can be finished this week, so no more than 4 days labour at least

 

[DavidG58]

Now heres a thought, maybe my poor mpg has been down to the turbo issues all the while we have had it?

How many miles will I need to do to cover the repair

 

[hilldweller]

Parts not including new cat or DPF £1950 + VAT

Here, have an e-hanky to wipe away the tears.

And add £50 or so to the bill for bottle of decent bubbly to celebrate.

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