Water pump issue (1 Viewer)

[Madmoo84]

Hello everyone.
I have a bit of an odd problem that I am hoping you can help with.
I have a a Schaudt EBL 211 Elektroblock and the LT 453 control panel, with a Shurflo Trail King Water Pump (20psi 7 l/min 12v)
Trouble I am having is when I press the water pump switch it doesn't turn on - it flashes for a split second and that's it. However, if I disconnect one of the pump wires then press the button it comes on. Then if I touch the wires together while it's on, the pump will run for a short while and then all power cuts out.
I can then turn the power back on again but the pump will not come on.
The battery is a 12V 60Ah leisure battery, but it's reading at between 19 and 20.6V which I think is very odd.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[pappajohn]

The battery is a 12V 60Ah leisure battery, but it's reading at between 19 and 20.6V which I think is very odd.

Sounds like you have a solar panel to be getting 20v.
The solar regulator appears to have failed, it should regulate to around 14v or less but you're getting full solar voltage... Around 20v.
As for the pump, that sounds like it's seizing up and the control panel is turning it off.

 

[f6c]

Welcome aboard

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[Dramfineday]

 

[tonyidle]

Hello everyone.
I have a bit of an odd problem that I am hoping you can help with.
I have a a Schaudt EBL 211 Elektroblock and the LT 453 control panel, with a Shurflo Trail King Water Pump (20psi 7 l/min 12v)
Trouble I am having is when I press the water pump switch it doesn't turn on - it flashes for a split second and that's it. However, if I disconnect one of the pump wires then press the button it comes on. Then if I touch the wires together while it's on, the pump will run for a short while and then all power cuts out.
I can then turn the power back on again but the pump will not come on.
The battery is a 12V 60Ah leisure battery, but it's reading at between 19 and 20.6V which I think is very odd.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

It sounds as though you're not seeing the true voltage. First use a meter to check battery voltage off hook-up then with hook-up connected. I don't think there's much wrong with the pump.

 

[autorouter]

The battery is a 12V 60Ah leisure battery, but it's reading at between 19 and 20.6V which I think is very odd.

How are you getting this voltage reading? Is it a multimeter or the panel display? Any voltage over 15 volts is anomalous. Certain chargers have a conditioning voltage of about 16V. A voltage of 19V or 20.6V sounds like a fault. For example, if the regulation stage of the mains charger has failed. This is a serious fault that could damage the batteries and/or the electronics and/or any devices like the pump that are connected to it. The strange behaviour of the pump could be related to this.

Does this happen with the EHU connected? Do you have solar panels, if so does this happen when the sun is shining on them?

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[Madmoo84]

I have tested with a mulit-meter at the battery off hook up so will try on hook up.
I also tested it at the wires that go into the pump (pump not connected) when I turn the pump switch on, it shows 20.6V but then if I turn on one light it goes down, another light, down some more and so on.

 

[tonyidle]

I have tested with a mulit-meter at the battery off hook up so will try on hook up.
I also tested it at the wires that go into the pump (pump not connected) when I turn the pump switch on, it shows 20.6V but then if I turn on one light it goes down, another light, down some more and so on.

Test the battery voltage after removing all connections from the terminals. That should, as a start, give you some indication of the state of the battery.

 

[autorouter]

A standard '12V' battery will not give out a voltage of more than 13.5V. If you are measuring 19V or more, something else must be supplying that voltage. Likely candidates are a mains charger working off EHU, or a solar panel. If it's a big motorhome based on a commercial vehicle, they often have a 24V vehicle system, with a step-down 12V system for the habitation loads. Remember we only know what you tell us. That's why we ask the questions. Do you have solar panels?

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[Madmoo84]

Thanks for all your comments so far...done some further testing today based on previous comments/suggestions.
When on EHU, still reads over 20V at the battery.
I disconnected the leisure battery's +ve terminal and the battery shows 14.5V.

On EHU and Battery Connected
At the point where the pump connects (pump not connected) - when the panel isn't on, it reads 0.03V, when the panel is turned on it's 0.87V and when pump turned on it's 20.6V.

On EHU and Battery disconnected
At the point where the pump connects (pump not connected) - when the panel isn't on, it reads 0.00V, when the panel is turned on it's 0.9V and when pump turned on it's 20.9V

Off EHU and Battery disconnected
At the point where the pump connects (pump not connected) - when the panel isn't on, it reads 0.00V, when the panel is turned on it's 0.1V and when pump turned on it's 21.4V

I am assuming it's the engine battery powering it??

We do have a solar panel but I don't know what power it is - been up on the roof to see if I could find any details but all I could find was a barcode with a number but Google has yielded no results - SYMW8008180306

 

[Richard n Ann]

Sounds like the solar controller is faulty (if there is one) and it's connecting the solar directly to the battery.

 

[Richard n Ann]

I am assuming it's the engine battery powering it??

At 20v it's much more likely to be the solar panel.

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[GeoffnDee]

Had you removed / replaced the leisure battery before this problem started , if so did you disconnect the solar input to the solar controller before removal and then re-connect after re- fitting the battery as this is often needed to be done , in that order , when a leisure battery is replaced (to allow the solar controller to set to 12v) This means that the leisure battery needs to be connected up to the van before the solar input to the controller is connected.
If this is not the case, I think , as has been said , that the solar controller may be faulty and allowing 20v through to the battery.

 

[Madmoo84]

Thanks everyone.
We hadn't replaced or disconnected the leisure battery prior to this issue.
With regards to the solar controller, would this be a stand alone item or incorporated into the Schaudt EBL 211 Elektroblock?
If it is incorporated, could I get and external one and just connect it inline?

 

[pappajohn]

Sounds like the solar controller is faulty (if there is one) and it's connecting the solar directly to the battery.

At 20v it's much more likely to be the solar panel.

Exactly.....
My mates van had the same problem.... Solar panel direct to battery with no controller.. Around 21v
Put a basic controller in circuit and voltage returned 13v ish.
No idea how long it had been like that but it had killed the battery. With just one light on it dropped to 5v (solar disconnected) in a few minutes before I fitted the controller and a new battery

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[GeoffnDee]

I do not know if the EBL211 has a built in controller but if you can follow the solar cables they will lead you to the stand alone controller ,if there is one, and if so it will either then go from the controller to the leisure battery or into the EBL to feed both the starter and leisure batteries.
If the controller is a stand alone one it should be easy to replace (following the correct connection details) and may be a Schaudt one that plugs into the EBL

 

[Madmoo84]

Thanks everyone again for your comments/suggestions.
Did some more inspection and I disconnected the plug from the elektroblock that said 'Solar Regulator' - it had 3 wires coming out from it, red, blue and green. The red and blue went directly to the battery and the green then when into a terminal with brown wires but I couldn't distinguish where they all went, there were a whole bunch of them, some connected to the elektroblock.
After I unplugged the solar regulator plug, I reconnected the EHU and the battery and voila!! The pump works!!!
The battery was showing 11.7V before reconnection and then about 12.1V when on EHU. I am assuming the battery is FUBAR as it had 20V running through it for who knows how long.
I have ordered a solar controller and will run that inline between the elektroblock and the battery.

Many thanks for all your help, you are wonderful people, I really appreciate that there was no negativity, sarcastic comments or any mean words that I have seen on many forums. Just people helping out people!

 

[autorouter]

If it's the solar power causing the problem, there's a couple of possibilities. As pappajohn says, maybe the panels are connected direct to the battery, without a controller. That's OK for a tiny panel of maybe 10 or 20 watts, but anything bigger needs a controller.

The other possibility is that there is a controller, but it thinks you have a 24V battery not a 12V. That can happen with some controllers. They are built for both voltages, and they decide which of the two when they are initially connected. Always connect the battery first, so that the solar controller registers the voltage correctly and chooses the 12V battery settings. Then connect the solar panels.

If the controller is giving out the wrong voltage, disconnect both the battery and the panels. Wait a couple of minutes, then connect the battery. Then connect the solar panels.

If you don't have a solar controller and decide you need one, there's two types, PWM and MPPT. PWM is cheaper, and simply throttles the panel voltage so it doesn't overcharge the battery. MPPT is better, it's basically a proper solar powered battery charger, that gets the maximum power out of the panels. They are better in cloudy conditions and low light, but about the same as PWM in bright sunlight. Some controllers have two battery outputs, and can charge the starter battery as well as the leisure battery.

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[autorouter]

The 3-way connector labelled 'Solar Regulator' on the EBL211 is meant to take the output of a solar regulator. There are three pins, which connect (inside the EBL) to earth (Pin 1), starter battery (Pin 2) and leisure battery (Pin 3). It is NOT an input TO a solar regulator inside the EBL. There is no solar regulator inside the EBL. It is a convenient place to connect a solar regulator, and is especially convenient for a dual output regulator that has an output for both the leisure and starter batteries.

An advantage of connecting to the EBL is that the the amps from the solar controller are measured and accounted for by the EBL display. A disadvantage is that it's best to limit the amps into that connector to 15A, which limits the solar panel power to about 200W. Anything more needs to be routed direct to the battery, bypassing the EBL