VW Polo Duel Mass Flywheel

[dbnosey]

Hi All
I know its got nothing to do with MH’s but this forum is a fountain of knowledge.
A few weeks ago I took a 09/2014 TDI Polo with 25,000 miles to a VW dealership (Not the one I purchase it from new) due to a rattling noice when I depressed the clutch pedal. With the little knowledge I have and a qualified motor technicians advice we suspected the DMF breaking up. The verbal estimate for a full clutch replacement was £980 all in.
I received a phone call after removal of gearbox that the clutch was burnt out and would cost £1,422. to fit a conversation clutch assembly. I gave the go ahead but asked if I could come and inspect the removed clutch, “No not without special request”. I’m making a special request. The receptionist asked me to “hold whilst she enquired with the Service Manager”. She came back to tell me the “clutch has been scraped and could not be found”. I told her this should not have happened without my permission as it’s my property. “Sorry she said”
When I collect the repaired VW and paid in full I asked again about the clutch. This was hastily produced and put in my car boot.
The clutch had Not burnt out but it was the DMF breaking up.
VW customer service does not want to know and Quote Warranty lasts 3 years or 60,000 miles.
My question is. Why did VW at great experience produce a replacement clutch conversion kit (using a single mass flywheel). Did they know there was a manufacturing fault and is there anything I can do?. Our to whom I can make a formal complaint.
Thank Colin

 

[MillieMoocher]

Ouch, dealers approach sucks...


Haven’t looked through this extensively but on the Skoda forum there seems to be plenty of noise re DMF failure. As they use engines/gearboxes/probably 99% of parts in common with VW you might find some pointers on this link. Or maybe there’s a similar VW forum which might be worth a search?
Broken Link Removed

 

[Scotch mist]

Sounds like a large bill more than I’d be happy to pay but the money is in the labour, having dropped the gear box then finding the DMF faulty it would be madness to reassemble without putting in a new clutch & thrust bearing regardless of the condition of the old ones , DMF’S are known to be problematic regardless of the manufacturers, they are there to reduce vibration

 

[Steve N Tracy]

When I was Aftersales Manager at a Skoda Dealer duel mass flywheels were one of the best sellers, due to popularity of Skoda's with the local taxi drivers.

 

[wasp]

Manual P38 Range Rover suffer the same thing

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[mfw]

Lots of people change back dmf to normal flywheel my old transit has had it done not sure how much stress it puts on other parts by changing it though

 

[dbnosey]

Thank you all for your comments. My beef is the little mileage the car has completed, 25,000 miles. I’ve driven diesel cars for years with 80,000 miles plus with no problem and the last four being VW. Yes I agree with Scotch Mist, I would always refit a full replacement clutch assembly it would be false economy not to. It’s the fact that VW must know that they have had a problem with this DMF which is identical to that fitted in the Diesel Audi A1, Polo and Skoda. to produce a genuine VW,Audi, Skoda group conversation kit that replaces the DMF with the old type solid flywheel.
Is it a case of the CO2 scandal, yes they did know but let the customer pay.
Colin

 

[Silver-Fox]

Did they produce dual mass so they could build a box with less strength and save money?

Or because people arnt such good drivers and it protects the box from numptys?

 

[34127]

I am getting a noise from the dual mass flywheel on my Octavia which has done 190,000 miles. My local garage said it would probably last for quite a while yet before needing to be replaced and the replacement cost would be about £500.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Did they produce dual mass so they could build a box with less strength and save money?

Or because people arnt such good drivers and it protects the box from numptys?

Or, to keep the dealer workshops busy.

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[dbnosey]

Hi Borderland
Just be careful the DMF doesn’t explode and do unknown very very expensive damage to the clutch bell housing or gearbox. That’s why I replaced mine soonest.
Colin

 

[dbnosey]

You can see the broken bits of metal through the hole. Well I can
Colin

 

[Silver-Fox]

Or, to keep the dealer workshops busy.

A bit like cam belts

 

[Silver-Fox]

I am getting a noise from the dual mass flywheel on my Octavia which has done 190,000 miles. My local garage said it would probably last for quite a while yet before needing to be replaced and the replacement cost would be about £500.

If £500 is parts and Labour that’s cheap

 

[34127]

Hi Borderland
Just be careful the DMF doesn’t explode and do unknown very very expensive damage to the clutch bell housing or gearbox. That’s why I replaced mine soonest.
Colin

Thanks for that. My local mechanic said it is a risk but would normally get noisier before total failure. Also, the car is only worth approx £500 so if it did cause major damage then it would be an inconvenience but not much of a financial loss and my intention is to replace the car in the near future.

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[gus-lopez]

When I was Aftersales Manager at a Skoda Dealer duel mass flywheels were one of the best sellers, due to popularity of Skoda's with the local taxi drivers.

When they first were introduced & started rattling most taxi drivers just had them welded through an available opening, so making them solid

 

[Guigsy]

A mate has a 10 year old, 100,000 mile Audi TDI. He started getting nasty clunking noises and vibration. Thankfully he stopped and got recovered to a friendly mechanic.

The bell housing was worn thin and full of slag, but still intact. Gearbox is still ok. The mechanic said that it could have let go at any moment, and if it had, the car would have been a write-off.

 

[MitchandJenny]

s hastily produced and put in my car boot.

How do you know if it WAS yours. ??
Mitch.

 

[dbnosey]

Hi Mitch I asked that same question. The replacement convention kit comes complete and all the removed parts were put in the same box. These I took to a neighbour who’s son worked for VW since leaving school (now retired ) and he pointed out the serial markings then made a phone call to the garage he worked at. Two weeks later he came and told me that all the parts were identified as matching my polos VIN number. This is the complete old parts replaced
Colin

 

[Silver-Fox]

I was chatting to a mate who’s a spanner monkey.

In his opinion replace a dmf with another one.
Don’t go for a conventional clutch/flywheel.

He also said didn’t know of any issues with dsg boxes providing you keep up with oil and filter changes.

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[tonyidle]

View attachment 302507 Hi Mitch I asked that same question. The replacement convention kit comes complete and all the removed parts were put in the same box. These I took to a neighbour who’s son worked for VW since leaving school (now retired ) and he pointed out the serial markings then made a phone call to the garage he worked at. Two weeks later he came and told me that all the parts were identified as matching my polos VIN number. This is the complete old parts replaced
Colin

Was the driveshaft replaced too?

 

[BusyBuilder]

My 2008, 2.5 (5 cylinder) VW T5 T30 LWB has now done 101,000 miles, only problem I've had is a broken drive shaft. Went couple months back with a bang whilst negotiating a steep hill/sharp bend.
Took it to VW Inverness van centre, I asked about the DMF, and they said it was fine. When I got the van back it drove like new, couldn't believe how smooth the engine/gearbox/ clutch was.
I like the van and the engine is a good strong performer, the van usually weighs in at 2.5 tonne with all my tools and stuff loaded in the back. I've had it since 9 months old from Thrifty Hire with 9,000 miles on it, so I'm well happy with it.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Pity you took it to a main dealer, they are a load of dishonest thieves that will upsell any thing they can. A replacement DMF from a factor like GSF will be an original part and half the cost of VW etc plenty of independent garages out the that will do it for half the cost of the shiny showroom mob. That is the same reason My Hymer never went to the local Merc garage who wanted to upsell the first service to £450 for including the gearbox oil and the filter as well as the brake fluid after 12 months not the thee years Merc states.

 

[dbnosey]

Hi Tonyidle
Yes the driveshaft and everything in the picture was replaced. Living in Kendal you may or may not know EK Brakes Motor Factor’s. I telephoned them first to find the cost to supply only a DMF. I have dealt with them for years. They told me that none of their suppliers stock them as VW have manufactured a conversation kit and pointed me in the direction of TPS In Preston. I phoned TPS and they confirmed they only supply the complete conversation kit for £750 + Vat I asked why, they could not confirm why as they don’t have access to VW’s tech bulletins, but they have supplied quite a few. When I phoned VW customer services I asked why they now only fit the complete replacement kit with a solid (single mas) flywheel when the DMF is at fault and NOT a like for like kit with a new DMF. They told me, “that is confidential information and NOT for public knowledge”.
Is and do they know of a manufacturing fault with the original fitted DMF clutch assembly. Make your own mind up
Colin

 

[pappajohn]

She came back to tell me the “clutch has been scraped and could not be found”. I told her this should not have happened without my permission as it’s my property. “Sorry she said”

When I collect the repaired VW and paid in full I asked again about the clutch. This was hastily produced and put in my car boot.

Funny it was scrapped and couldn't be found then by magic it reappeared.

Typical main dealer bullshit.

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[tonyidle]

Hi Tonyidle
Yes the driveshaft and everything in the picture was replaced. Living in Kendal you may or may not know EK Brakes Motor Factor’s. I telephoned them first to find the cost to supply only a DMF. I have dealt with them for years. They told me that none of their suppliers stock them as VW have manufactured a conversation kit and pointed me in the direction of TPS In Preston. I phoned TPS and they confirmed they only supply the complete conversation kit for £750 + Vat I asked why, they could not confirm why as they don’t have access to VW’s tech bulletins, but they have supplied quite a few. When I phoned VW customer services I asked why they now only fit the complete replacement kit with a solid (single mas) flywheel when the DMF is at fault and NOT a like for like kit with a new DMF. They told me, “that is confidential information and NOT for public knowledge”.
Is and do they know of a manufacturing fault with the original fitted DMF clutch assembly. Make your own mind up
Colin

I suspect you are correct . Interesting that a driveshaft is part of the kit. Yes I know E K Brakes. They started in a small unit off Gulf Road in Lancaster. My Dad was friendly with Ernie Kitchen.

 

[ambulancekidd]

Pity you took it to a main dealer

More like main stealers.
If I live to be a hundred I will never understand why anyone would go to a main stealer.

People quote "its to keep the service history intact" but why would you pay more that the value of any replacement parts to a huge chrome & glass showroom company?
I liken it to the members of our fraternity that allow themselves to be ripped off into buying "motorhome specific tyres" if that's not a ripoff I really don't know what is?
People are scared into buying tyres that are about three times more expensive than "normal" tyres, think about it, you could replace your tyres every year with normal tyres & still be quid's in!

 

[dbnosey]

Hi All and thank you for your reply’s.
I’ve just found this. Do you think it’s worth a punt against the Main dealership and or VW group. It would cost £80 to take them to the small claims court but my fear would be if I lost and I was landed to pay their costs.

• Other consumer protection

Around 99% of new cars sold in the UK are covered by a set of industry codes of practice drawn up by the Motor Ombudsman (formerly known as Motor Codes). These comprise a series of voluntary rules under which new car retailers should operate. The Motor Ombudsman's rules cover areas such as sales literature, sales tactics and warranty claims. The Motor Ombudsman also provides Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR). This is a mediation and arbitration service the Consumer Rights Act stipulates all businesses must give their customers access to should things go wrong.

If you’ve bought a car on credit, you’re also covered by the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). While cars bought on a hire purchase agreement also get protection from the FOS, note the Supply of Goods Act – rather than the Consumer Rights Act or Sale of Goods Act – applies.

Finally, you have the extreme option of taking the dealer to court. Most judges are likely to expect you to have tried ADR first, though, and the Sale of Goods Act only allows you to take legal action within six years of buying a product.
Kindest Regards
Colin

 

[Ernesto]

I've always found the Daily Telegraph's Honest John column has given great advice and really quickly. Worth a quick email to him


If your car has developed a fault, or for consumer advice, turn to Honest John by emailing honestadvice@telegraph.co.uk

 

[John Cameron]

Hi All
I know its got nothing to do with MH’s but this forum is a fountain of knowledge.
A few weeks ago I took a 09/2014 TDI Polo with 25,000 miles to a VW dealership (Not the one I purchase it from new) due to a rattling noice when I depressed the clutch pedal. With the little knowledge I have and a qualified motor technicians advice we suspected the DMF breaking up. The verbal estimate for a full clutch replacement was £980 all in.
I received a phone call after removal of gearbox that the clutch was burnt out and would cost £1,422. to fit a conversation clutch assembly. I gave the go ahead but asked if I could come and inspect the removed clutch, “No not without special request”. I’m making a special request. The receptionist asked me to “hold whilst she enquired with the Service Manager”. She came back to tell me the “clutch has been scraped and could not be found”. I told her this should not have happened without my permission as it’s my property. “Sorry she said”
When I collect the repaired VW and paid in full I asked again about the clutch. This was hastily produced and put in my car boot.
The clutch had Not burnt out but it was the DMF breaking up.
VW customer service does not want to know and Quote Warranty lasts 3 years or 60,000 miles.
My question is. Why did VW at great experience produce a replacement clutch conversion kit (using a single mass flywheel). Did they know there was a manufacturing fault and is there anything I can do?. Our to whom I can make a formal complaint.
Thank Colin

Just having the same issue with my wife's 2015 Polo 1.4 TDi (49,900 miles), my normal garage (Budjet) has said that it's a know problem with the Polo but VW wont do a recall. So it's now got to have a Single mass flywheel replacement kit (why produce a retro kit to fix an issue that isn't there?), drive shaft for £1200 and then go to VW for a software update to manage the timing of said smf kit for another £150!
Think I'll just sell it and VW lost another customer.

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