Victron B2B settings Mercedes sprinter smart alternator

[Brian123]

Hi all, I have recently fitted a victron DC-DC battery charger to my 2016 sprinter. I have noticed that whilst driving the leisure battery (220amp lithium’s) are not being charged, in fact my BMV says I am negative circa 12amps. I noticed that whilst cruising on the motorway the alternator is only producing 12.3 - 12.4 volts and when I decelerate the volts raise to around 14v (I guess that is the idea of the smart alternator).
Does anyone know what settings I should use in the B2B app to ensure I get a charge for the leisure batteries whilst not running the vehicle battery down
Many thanks

 

[Bobby-gg]

Have you used a D+ signal to turn the B2B on?

 

[Brian123]

Hi Bobby.....yes I have, the B2B turns on as it should, it works and charges when I decelerate, the issue is when the vehicle is cruising the alternator only produces 12.3v

 

[ctc]

Switch your lights on, gives the alternator something to do.

 

[Tombola]

Open the victronn app and check what the switch on voltage is set on

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Engine-on-detection-set-up-Orion-Tr-Smart-DC-DC-Charger-EN.pdf

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[Brian123]

hi Tombola.....i have attached some screen shots from the Victron B2B app showing the my current settings, the first image is just showing the voltage of my vehicle battery with the ignition on and engine off

 

[Tombola]

change user defined to "smart alternator" you may have to scroll down.
then see how you get on with that for a while. Also check your battery settinsg are set to Lithium

 

[autorouter]

the B2B turns on as it should, it works and charges when I decelerate, the issue is when the vehicle is cruising the alternator only produces 12.3v

The B2B should take power from the alternator in the same way as any power device - lights, wipers, fan etc. The B2B should be ON when the D+is ON, and OFF when the D+ is OFF.

If it is only coming on when decelerating etc, then for some reason it is voltage-controlled, and when used with a smart alternator it shouldn't be voltage-controlled.

 

[Brian123]

thanks Tombola and Autorouter for your responses, if i use the default Smart Alternator settings will i not have the same result as the default V'ages are higher than the ones i am currently using, please excuse my lack of knowledge i am trying to get my head around this

 

[autorouter]

Many B2Bs have a setting where they entirely disregard any alternator voltages, and are switched on/off using the D+ (engine running) signal. If you're not sure what that is, when the ignition key is turned, the dash lights come on. That's the 'ignition' signal. When the engine starts, the red alternator light goes out, that's the D+ signal. So the B2B won't take any power until the alternator is ready to send power.

Voltage control of a B2B is used in simple systems, where it's too much bother to run a D+ wire. They generally don't work well with smart alternators, so it's best to use a D+ wire and disregard any alternator voltages.

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[Tombola]

Yes the Victron you use will have pre set settings, just choose smart alt then give it a try, if then you feel the need to tweak it you can

 

[Brian123]

Once again thank you to Autorouter and Tombola......I have been playing around with the B2B this afternoon, the D+ is connected to the B2B and seems to be working correctly, i did discover that the installer had wired the negative input cable from the B2B to the vehicle battery negative, I thought this is a no-no on a smart alternator vehicle (all other negatives are connected to a negative post on the vehicle chassis) so I have disconnected the B2B negative and rerouted to earth via the vehicle chassis. I have also changed the app settings to the default Smart Alternator profile. I will give it a run next week to test it.
Do you think the negative being connected to the vehicle battery could have been the root of the problem?

 

[anthsprinter]

Hey Brian123, I am having a similar if not identical issue to you , I actually started screen shotting yesterday before seeing this. Did you get any further forward ?

 

[anthsprinter]

Same as you when I back off the throttle (coasting) a high input voltage and output voltage can be seen. Under normal driving it’s as if the alternator decides not to charge the battery and then the B2B thinks that the engine is turned off?

 

[Tombola]

Same as you when I back off the throttle (coasting) a high input voltage and output voltage can be seen. Under normal driving it’s as if the alternator decides not to charge the battery and then the B2B thinks that the engine is turned off?

have you checked the input voltage lock out setting, what does it say

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[Brian123]

Hi anthsprinter,

Unfortunately i am no further forward, I have rerouted the earth away from the cab battery to a chassis earth point, as my research said that with a smart alternator nothing should be earthed to the vehicle battery. I have also reset the B2B settings to 'Smart Alternator' from the customs one the installer used (as they never worked properly in the first place).
At the moment i am grounded as the wife is recovering from back surgery therefore i have not been able to get out and test if this change has solved the issue.
I would love to hear how you get on and if you find a solution

 

[anthsprinter]

Hi mate , I may try the same thing with the negative feed as I have wrongly connected it to the battery. The thing is I wired this into my van last august /September and it’s only now I’m seeing issues?
Last night I disconnected the B2B from the vehicle battery so if I can see if my starting ( lack of battery charging ) issue is resolved . The only thing is now that the B2b is disconnected I don’t have any live data that I can monitor whilst driving. The past 3 or 4 days I’ve had to jump the van 9 out of 10 times to start it so I’ll see if anything has changed with the B2B disconnect .

 

[anthsprinter]

So just a quick update. Tombola; the voltage lockout is set at 12.6 I think . I can’t actually remote into the settings now as I’ve disconnected the B2b. The B2b has been fitted for around 9 months and I set all the parameters up over a video call with a VictronConnect specialist advisor. Up until the past few months it was fine and then it has been slowly getting worse at starting. As I said previously it’s got to the point where I’ve had to jump start the van every trip last Thursday to Sunday. As it’s been getting worse I’ve been checking the tightness at the connections and monitoring alternator charge at the vehicle and leisure batteries through the app. It looked like the alternator was broken but I decided to disconnect the B2b from the vehicle battery to rule out any negative influence.
Since disconnecting the B2B circuit my van has started 8 times in the past 2 days with no issues . As I said before I cannot monitor the charging whilst moving like I could when the B2b was wired up but based on the past 2 days it appears that the alternator is now recharging the battery

 

[Pausim]

Has the original split charge relay been disabled? It sound like it may not have been. If the B2B output is connected directly to the leisure batteries then the original split charge can work in reverse. When the alternator voltage drops, as it should with a smart alternator, the higher voltage of the lithium batteries will cause the current to flow from the leisure bank back to the engine battery through the split charge relay, in the opposite direction to what was originally intended.

There are various ways of overcoming this problem but it depends on the the output of the B2B and the type of 12V power distribution system installed i.e. Schaudt EBL or CBE etc.

 

[steveswift]

Hi all, I have recently fitted a victron DC-DC battery charger to my 2016 sprinter. I have noticed that whilst driving the leisure battery (220amp lithium’s) are not being charged, in fact my BMV says I am negative circa 12amps. I noticed that whilst cruising on the motorway the alternator is only producing 12.3 - 12.4 volts and when I decelerate the volts raise to around 14v (I guess that is the idea of the smart alternator).
Does anyone know what settings I should use in the B2B app to ensure I get a charge for the leisure batteries whilst not running the vehicle battery down
Many thanks

I have exactly same issue on Fiat Ducato 2020 , the system just doesn’t do what it’s supposed to , in my case it seems my smart alternator is too smart for the victron b2b, supplier and fitter cannot come up with a solution 1 month down the line!

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[Bobby-gg]

I have exactly same issue on Fiat Ducato 2020 , the system just doesn’t do what it’s supposed to , in my case it seems my smart alternator is too smart for the victron b2b, supplier and fitter cannot come up with a solution 1 month down the line

I'm sure that I've read somewhere, and it may off been on A&N's site, that if you switch your head lights on, it puts a load on your alternator which will then allow your B2B to work.

Could be worth a try

 

[Bobby-gg]

I'm sure that I've read somewhere, and it may off been on A&N's site, that if you switch your head lights on, it puts a load on your alternator which will then allow your B2B to work.

Could be worth a try

Found it, it's not quite how I thought it was!

 

[Brian123]

Has the original split charge relay been disabled? It sound like it may not have been. If the B2B output is connected directly to the leisure batteries then the original split charge can work in reverse. When the alternator voltage drops, as it should with a smart alternator, the higher voltage of the lithium batteries will cause the current to flow from the leisure bank back to the engine battery through the split charge relay, in the opposite direction to what was originally intended.

There are various ways of overcoming this problem but it depends on the the output of the B2B and the type of 12V power distribution system installed i.e. Schaudt EBL or CBE etc.

Hi Pausim,

Would simply removing the 50amp fuse to the EBL at the starter battery solve this issue?

 

[Pausim]

It seems to me that a B2B is taking power from the alternator anyway. Both the alternator and the B2B are connected to the positive and negative terminals of the battery. The B2B should operate the same from a 12.3V supply or a 14.3V supply, it just steps the voltage up or down to the selected profile for the leisure battery. B2Bs are designed to work with smart alternators.

I have exactly same issue on Fiat Ducato 2020 , the system just doesn’t do what it’s supposed to , in my case it seems my smart alternator is too smart for the victron b2b, supplier and fitter cannot come up with a solution 1 month down the line!

My Votronic B2B has an input voltage range of 10.5 - 16.5 V. I don’t think your problem, or the one Brian123 has, are to do with the input voltage or the smart alternator, far more likely to lie elsewhere. I previously had my B2B installed in a 2015 Mercedes Hymer with a smart alternator and it worked fine for 3 years. However my first attempt at installing it didn’t work properly because I had not dealt with the split charge relay. I had the the system transferred to my 2019 Ducato but the fitter hadn’t understood the need to disable the split charge relay, I put this right myself rather than try to explain the problem and delay handover.

Hi Pausim,

Would simply removing the 50amp fuse to the EBL at the starter battery solve this issue?

It might but it depends on how your system has been wired. On my Hymer EBL I used the 50A fuse and existing wiring to power the B2B and set the output so it could use the existing EBL circuit.

 

[Brian123]

It seems to me that a B2B is taking power from the alternator anyway. Both the alternator and the B2B are connected to the positive and negative terminals of the battery. The B2B should operate the same from a 12.3V supply or a 14.3V supply, it just steps the voltage up or down to the selected profile for the leisure battery. B2Bs are designed to work with smart alternators.

My Votronic B2B has an input voltage range of 10.5 - 16.5 V. I don’t think your problem, or the one Brian123 has, are to do with the input voltage or the smart alternator, far more likely to lie elsewhere. I previously had my B2B installed in a 2015 Mercedes Hymer with a smart alternator and it worked fine for 3 years. However my first attempt at installing it didn’t work properly because I had not dealt with the split charge relay. I had the the system transferred to my 2019 Ducato but the fitter hadn’t understood the need to disable the split charge relay, I put this right myself rather than try to explain the problem and delay handover.

It might but it depends on how your system has been wired. On my Hymer EBL I used the 50A fuse and existing wiring to power the B2B and set the output so it could use the existing EBL circuit.

Thanks Pausim, on my Mercedes based Hymer the victron B2B is wired directly from the SB to the LB's. However the EBL feed and 50amp fuse is still connected to the SB. I am thinking if i just remove the 50amp fuse at the SB then the EBL split charge relay will be disabled and the B2B will function as intended (due to long cable runs I am trying to avoid installing the B2B as Puasim suggested using the EBL SB line in)

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[Pausim]

Thanks Pausim, on my Mercedes based Hymer the victron B2B is wired directly from the SB to the LB's. However the EBL feed and 50amp fuse is still connected to the SB. I am thinking if i just remove the 50amp fuse at the SB then the EBL split charge relay will be disabled and the B2B will function as intended (due to long cable runs I am trying to avoid installing the B2B as Puasim suggested using the EBL SB line in)

I have seen removal of the fuse suggested on other postings. I have not tried it myself. Give it a go and see if it solves the problem.

 

[10tenmen]

We had to have a Redarc fitted by the dealer to overcome our Fiat Ducato smart Alternator as it was taking power from the leisure battery, this completely overrides the smart bit ensuring charge to both engine and leisure batteries.

 

[Lenny HB]

Thanks Pausim, on my Mercedes based Hymer the victron B2B is wired directly from the SB to the LB's. However the EBL feed and 50amp fuse is still connected to the SB. I am thinking if i just remove the 50amp fuse at the SB then the EBL split charge relay will be disabled and the B2B will function as intended (due to long cable runs I am trying to avoid installing the B2B as Puasim suggested using the EBL SB line in)

I have seen removal of the fuse suggested on other postings. I have not tried it myself. Give it a go and see if it solves the problem.

Yes that will work the 50 amp fuse only feeds the split charge relay in the EBL.

 

[Brian123]

Yes that will work the 50 amp fuse only feeds the split charge relay in the EBL.

Thanks Lenny and Pausim, I will give this a go

 

[steveswift]

I'm sure that I've read somewhere, and it may off been on A&N's site, that if you switch your head lights on, it puts a load on your alternator which will then allow your B2B to work.

Could be worth a try

Tried all that , it’s quite clear the smart alternator is just too smart for the b2b , if supplier can’t come up with solution it will have to be put back to original and refunded . Shame though as when it works it’s an excellent system , gives so much power , can easily off grid for a week at a time , the system is ideal for those whom don’t have smart alternators!