Very clever door design from Auto Sleepers (1 Viewer)

[Poursay]

Surely though for warranty work the dealer is paid by the manufacturer and so needs his ok if he is going to be paid.

 

[Lenny HB]

Surely though for warranty work the dealer is paid by the manufacturer and so needs his ok if he is going to be paid.

In the second year yes but the first 12 months the dealer is legally responsible regardless of whether the manufacturer pays him.

 

[Coolcats]

This is why the 'dealer' network is such a mess its not really a network, I think it could be called a cartel that may be harsh but any brand should be taken to a brand outlet and repaired the internal mechanism 'should' be invisible to the end consumer in the same way as other goods are

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[MacroMad]

Jesus, what make was that again.

 

[Tombola]

Seems almost as bad as the issues I had with my autotrail. Woeful.
Its a fine balance between reject or have them fix. SOme were snagging but some cou,d have been dangerous.
I tried being "nice" and had them fix the issues after half a dozen visits I wished I had rejected.

 

[Plumb]

We know exactly how you feel Microbubbles. In 2018 we purchased brand new A/T Tracker (Trigano group same as A/S) and went down the road for couple of days testing, next morning on phone to dealers - the privacy strip on the toilet door is all splitting - oh that's alright just get some super glue on it. They made a right hash of replacing it and I demanded they redo it properly - which they never did. The batteries wouldn't hold charge and despite several emails between us and Sargent and the dealer attempting to sort, it was never resolved. Overhead cupboard doors would bang shut cutting head if you didn't duck in time. Shower scolding you when turning round due to tap being as bum level. We had two trackers fitted and was on it's third one within 18 months. We managed to part exchange for our present motorhome within 12 months and thank goodness we did, the dealer still has it for sale some 18 months later - shortage on s/h motorhomes!!?
Yes we tried the "this is not fit for purpose" angle but neither dealer, A/T or Sargent would react - hence "get rid within 12 months" but you'll loose an awful load of hard earned dosh!!!!!
Best wishes with however you resolve your problems

Yes trigano group are so large they don't care about individuals concerns to the point of arrogance unfortunately you are just another casualty ! Good luck hope all goes well

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[Neodave]

If you decide you want to reject consult a Lawer, one of the free ones on AA, RAC or one of the clubs and get a proper view of your rights. We did that and once we mentioned Courts and compensation payments together with damage to their reputation all changed for reasonableness. Best of luck whatever you decide.

 

[Bucket]

That's actually quite a good solution. Gave you somewhere to sit whilst you were watching the toast browning!

Assuming the grill works?

 

[Northernraider]

Our problem is that to reorder any new motorhome we can’t expect delivery until March / April next year.

Personally after seeing the problems folk have with new motorhomes id return it and buy a better built tried and tested second hand van

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[Coolcats]

Personally after seeing the problems folk have with new motorhomes id return it and buy a better built tried and tested second hand van

Who is to say a 2nd hand one won’t have issues? To me Motorhomes are like yachts they can be a money pit maybe less costly in the main but do need higher maintenance and looking after than mainstream vehicles.

 

[Northernraider]

Who is to say a 2nd hand one won’t have issues? To me Motorhomes are like yachts they can be a money pit maybe less costly in the main but do need higher maintenance and looking after than mainstream vehicles.

Well theres a good chance the first owner will have noticed the cutlery drawer doesnt open and had it fixed by the time you buy it

My motorhome has problems now and then ...they all do

But i feel better when i can say its an old vehicle than I would if i thought i was buying something new and trouble free.

I think the standard of some of these new vehicles is disgusting to be honest and there's something seriously wrong when things like this get past the design team never mind the alleged craftsman putting it together.

 

[maison]

We bought one of the first AS Ravennas when they first came out.

We traded it in, at a loss, after 15 months and our fifth internal gas leak. At the time we were travelling on long trips in Europe and seemed to spend more time looking for emergency repairs than actually enjoying the trip.

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[eddie]

This is why the 'dealer' network is such a mess its not really a network, I think it could be called a cartel that may be harsh but any brand should be taken to a brand outlet and repaired the internal mechanism 'should' be invisible to the end consumer in the same way as other goods are

But this is the issue, motorhomes are converted delivery vans, there are no "manufacturers" just converters, we tend to want to perhaps forget this

Ford for example buy in raw materials and produce an end product, and subject to engineering tolerances the first Transit off of the production line is identical to the ten thousandth transit.

Traditionally the skillset is low, there are too many "options" available for the number of actual motorhomes sold, it simply isn't viable, and the converter be it "Johns Campers" or "Hymer" are reliant on Fiat Merc or Ford for the chassis, Dometic, who own Seitz, Heki, and just about everything else you need to build a motorhome, and Thetford

Add to that, that a motorhome is more complex than a new house, but you don't pick up a house and shake it!

I was lucky enough to buy my first brand new van when I was 28 years old and since then, lucky enough to have had loads of new vans, I only had one van that I hated, I used to call it my "collectors piece" as I always seemed to be running back up the road collecting bits that fell off it!

It is frustrating but most things can be fixed or sorted out, but the problem is once something is wrong, it incenses us and we start to look closely at everything and may I say nit pick, forgetting that the majority of vans are built by low skilled low paid workers that are traditionally moved around the factory on a "as needed" basis and quickly laid off as soon as sales start to tail off!

The boat building industry is no better, in fact its worse!

 

[Coolcats]

But this is the issue, motorhomes are converted delivery vans, there are no "manufacturers" just converters, we tend to want to perhaps forget this

Ford for example buy in raw materials and produce an end product, and subject to engineering tolerances the first Transit off of the production line is identical to the ten thousandth transit.

Traditionally the skillset is low, there are too many "options" available for the number of actual motorhomes sold, it simply isn't viable, and the converter be it "Johns Campers" or "Hymer" are reliant on Fiat Merc or Ford for the chassis, Dometic, who own Seitz, Heki, and just about everything else you need to build a motorhome, and Thetford

Add to that, that a motorhome is more complex than a new house, but you don't pick up a house and shake it!

I was lucky enough to buy my first brand new van when I was 28 years old and since then, lucky enough to have had loads of new vans, I only had one van that I hated, I used to call it my "collectors piece" as I always seemed to be running back up the road collecting bits that fell off it!

It is frustrating but most things can be fixed or sorted out, but the problem is once something is wrong, it incenses us and we start to look closely at everything and may I say nit pick, forgetting that the majority of vans are built by low skilled low paid workers that are traditionally moved around the factory on a "as needed" basis and quickly laid off as soon as sales start to tail off!

The boat building industry is no better, in fact its worse!

Hello Eddie I can see where you are coming from and think you have a point and in part Right and in part wrong.

1) You can take the Vehicle to any Fiat or Mercedes dealer and any vehicle manufacturer fault will be carried out under warranty, irrespective of how much labour rate the manufacturer pays the dealer and you can be sure its a lessor rate than what Joe or Jo public pays. Just like Motorhomes the Manufactures do not make all components for this vehicles, they will be provided by various suppliers such as Bosch Pilkinton and a myriad of other suppliers.

2) Motor home manufacturers (converters) do much the same thing and vehicles such as Hymer come with a two year warranty. instead of Bosch or pilkinton you are quite right components will come from Dometic, Thetford etc

Th issue is the dealer network, I should be able to take my Hymer to any dealer for warranty work, the process behind getting a warranty claim sorted is not the consumers issue. The Dealer will be happy to sort out an issue if you open your wallet but not if you are making a warranty claim you are told to go back to the supplying dealer and that is where the Dealer network needs sorting it is not consumer focussed.

Another point that cannot be justified is where Hymer may say in their accessory pricing list that a accessory is say £250 when approaching a dealer I get a price of near £400 (Pre-Brexit). So lets think why this may be, is there one main importing dealer that orders are placed to by the other Hymer dealers, this would mean they take their margin on the goods and the suppling dealer has to make their Margin. As is often stated on these forums just buy you accessory when your visiting Europe its much cheaper.

So going back to my comment Dealerships appear to operate as cartels

 

[eddie]

Hello Eddie I can see where you are coming from and think you have a point and in part Right and in part wrong.

1) You can take the Vehicle to any Fiat or Mercedes dealer and any vehicle manufacturer fault will be carried out under warranty, irrespective of how much labour rate the manufacturer pays the dealer and you can be sure its a lessor rate than what Joe or Jo public pays. Just like Motorhomes the Manufactures do not make all components for this vehicles, they will be provided by various suppliers such as Bosch Pilkinton and a myriad of other suppliers.

2) Motor home manufacturers (converters) do much the same thing and vehicles such as Hymer come with a two year warranty. instead of Bosch or pilkinton you are quite right components will come from Dometic, Thetford etc

Th issue is the dealer network, I should be able to take my Hymer to any dealer for warranty work, the process behind getting a warranty claim sorted is not the consumers issue. The Dealer will be happy to sort out an issue if you open your wallet but not if you are making a warranty claim you are told to go back to the supplying dealer and that is where the Dealer network needs sorting it is not consumer focussed.

Another point that cannot be justified is where Hymer may say in their accessory pricing list that a accessory is say £250 when approaching a dealer I get a price of near £400 (Pre-Brexit). So lets think why this may be, is there one main importing dealer that orders are placed to by the other Hymer dealers, this would mean they take their margin on the goods and the suppling dealer has to make their Margin. As is often stated on these forums just buy you accessory when your visiting Europe its much cheaper.

So going back to my comment Dealerships appear to operate as cartels

Fundamentally each dealer is an independent dealer, the motorhome converters buy bits in, and convert delivery vans and sell them to "dealer" who in turn sell them to "their" customers.

Because it is a "cottage industry" there is no urgent parts ordering system, if you need a bit for your "XYZ" conversion, the dealer will normally have to either order it from "XYZ Motorhomes" who once they have the order, will order a replacement, no doubt on their next order, or the dealer will have to source the part direct from the supplier. "XYZ Motorhomes" will not pay the dealer the going labour rate, nor will "XYZ Motorhomes" pay the dealers invoice promptly, in short the dealer that is doing the warranty work is out of pocket, and dealer often with an irate customer who is unhappy that they will have to make another return to the dealer once the part is eventually sourced!

We have to stop thinking car franchise warranties, where often the dealer has to "pay" for the franchise and has contractual obligations placed on them as a condition of the franchise.

Slightly different at the moment I accept but during the last slump the motorhome converters would have sold motorhomes to a Donkey in field so long as it reduced their unsold stockpile of motorhomes, which is why as dealer getting stripped by a motorhome converter is rare indeed.

I am not saying that I don't wish it were better, I do, but it is what it is. If you wish local warranty work, buy from the closest dealer you can find. So often money is the only thing factored into the buying decision process, back up, support, warranty work are all things that should be considered when making a purchase.

This leads to "Ah but I saved £2k buying from the dealer in Scotland" But you live in Cornwall!

We (Van Bitz) will not touch other peoples work, will not install anything unless we supply it and will turn work away when we are convinced that what the customer wants is either daft or we know that we will not be able to install it on that particular motorhome conversion.

These weren't decisions we made back in 1990 when we started Van Bitz, they were all decisions made after being bitten on the bum numerous times over the years.

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[PaddyM]

So why is there a chain of “ authorised “ caravan /motorhome repairers who take on warranty work many many miles from either the dealer or manufacturer ? Surely this should be the next best model if the dealer network is not fit for purpose ?

 

[Coolcats]

Fundamentally each dealer is an independent dealer, the motorhome converters buy bits in, and convert delivery vans and sell them to "dealer" who in turn sell them to "their" customers.

Because it is a "cottage industry" there is no urgent parts ordering system, if you need a bit for your "XYZ" conversion, the dealer will normally have to either order it from "XYZ Motorhomes" who once they have the order, will order a replacement, no doubt on their next order, or the dealer will have to source the part direct from the supplier. "XYZ Motorhomes" will not pay the dealer the going labour rate, nor will "XYZ Motorhomes" pay the dealers invoice promptly, in short the dealer that is doing the warranty work is out of pocket, and dealer often with an irate customer who is unhappy that they will have to make another return to the dealer once the part is eventually sourced!

We have to stop thinking car franchise warranties, where often the dealer has to "pay" for the franchise and has contractual obligations placed on them as a condition of the franchise.

Slightly different at the moment I accept but during the last slump the motorhome converters would have sold motorhomes to a Donkey in field so long as it reduced their unsold stockpile of motorhomes, which is why as dealer getting stripped by a motorhome converter is rare indeed.

I am not saying that I don't wish it were better, I do, but it is what it is. If you wish local warranty work, buy from the closest dealer you can find. So often money is the only thing factored into the buying decision process, back up, support, warranty work are all things that should be considered when making a purchase.

This leads to "Ah but I saved £2k buying from the dealer in Scotland" But you live in Cornwall!

We (Van Bitz) will not touch other peoples work, will not install anything unless we supply it and will turn work away when we are convinced that what the customer wants is either daft or we know that we will not be able to install it on that particular motorhome conversion.

These weren't decisions we made back in 1990 when we started Van Bitz, they were all decisions made after being bitten on the bum numerous times over the years.

Hello Eddie,

I think this is where we disagree,

I live in Essex I buy a VW vehicle in Liverpool, I happen to be having the warranty work carried out locally. Both are independent dealers who get paid by the manufacturer for warranty work (the labour rates are much reduced).

Hymer sell to Dealer A, Dealer B does not want to know due to low Labour rates and its the consumer who suffers.

This is one key and fundamental area that needs addressing we should not be supporting this bad Dealer practice. It is not customer service the industry needs a shake up.

I brought my security system from you I understand that you are the only dealer who supplies, fits and maintains the system you also are clear about terms and conditions and pricing along with great customer service there is no issue with what you do.

 

[Coolcats]

So why is there a chain of “ authorised “ caravan /motorhome repairers who take on warranty work many many miles from either the dealer or manufacturer ? Surely this should be the next best model if the dealer network is not fit for purpose ?

Good point, some of these dealers sub contract out to these guys and in a way if its say a dometic fridge change out why not. I did have a fault on the main control panel and happy to fault along with the service team at the dealer once they were convinced it was the touch panel they sent me a new one and I sent them mine.

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[eddie]

Hello Eddie,

I think this is where we disagree,

I live in Essex I buy a VW vehicle in Liverpool, I happen to be having the warranty work carried out locally. Both are independent dealers who get paid by the manufacturer for warranty work (the labour rates are much reduced).

Hymer sell to Dealer A, Dealer B does not want to know due to low Labour rates and its the consumer who suffers.

This is one key and fundamental area that needs addressing we should not be supporting this bad Dealer practice. It is not customer service the industry needs a shake up.

I brought my security system from you I understand that you are the only dealer who supplies, fits and maintains the system you also are clear about terms and conditions and pricing along with great customer service there is no issue with what you do.

Re us, thank you Re the rest, I agree with you, I am not saying that I don't wish it were better, it is simply the scale of economy which is vastly different. During 2019 there were 11,200 new motorhomes and campervans sold in the UK

There were 2,311,140 cars sold in the UK in 2019 yes 2.2 Million cars!

There is a whole infrastructure behind the dealer network, parts support, finance teams warranty teams, "Vehicle off road" emergency parts ordering and the VW franchise you speak off paid a fortune to "buy" the franchise and part of the value of a franchise is the the warranty and serving work

The value of the sale with a motorhome is the profit of the sale of the motorhome, the rest is a duty, a chore, something that gets in the way of doing PDI's to get vehicles sold and paid for.

Until the converters dictate to the dealers what needs to be done nothing will happen. Unless the converters guarantee quick warranty decisions, fair warranty payments, agree to pay on time and set up the infrastructure to ensure that the vast majority of parts are available to be dispatched "same day" in a warranty situations, the dealers will refuse

And this is the industry that sends out a new van with a cutlery drawer that can only be opened with the habitation door open!

So I am not holding my breath!

 

[Coolcats]

Re us, thank you Re the rest, I agree with you, I am not saying that I don't wish it were better, it is simply the scale of economy which is vastly different. During 2019 there were 11,200 new motorhomes and campervans sold in the UK

There were 2,311,140 cars sold in the UK in 2019 yes 2.2 Million cars!

There is a whole infrastructure behind the dealer network, parts support, finance teams warranty teams, "Vehicle off road" emergency parts ordering and the VW franchise you speak off paid a fortune to "buy" the franchise and part of the value of a franchise is the the warranty and serving work

The value of the sale with a motorhome is the profit of the sale of the motorhome, the rest is a duty, a chore, something that gets in the way of doing PDI's to get vehicles sold and paid for.

Until the converters dictate to the dealers what needs to be done nothing will happen. Unless the converters guarantee quick warranty decisions, fair warranty payments, agree to pay on time and set up the infrastructure to ensure that the vast majority of parts are available to be dispatched "same day" in a warranty situations, the dealers will refuse

And this is the industry that sends out a new van with a cutlery drawer that can only be opened with the habitation door open!

So I am not holding my breath!

Just to add VW isn't perfect I have a small fault with the media system I took it in a year ago, it wasn't fixed, due to covid I left it then raised the issue again earlier this year, they didn't fix it, they had the van for 2 days they didn't fix it (no courtesy vehicle) I pressed the red button and raised it with VW customer care the van is in this week for 5 days ( I know its just a media issue) I have a courtesy vehicle this week this is day three, I think they are getting closer to fixing it but lets see. The issue is if the dealer just changes the media unit and its not the media unit they will be stuck with a £2,000 piece of kit so its a remote support for them from VW in Milton Keynes.

My issue with VW in this case was the local dealer not keeping me informed, now VW customer care is involved the dealer is calling me every evening with an update....

Lets see what happens when vehicles go to the nirvana of electric vehicle heaven and workshop technicians are deskilled and everything is done centrally. Customer care is key and regarding MoHo's the one that gets it right will earn buckets of loyalty and business.

 

[PaddyM]

Good point, some of these dealers sub contract out to these guys and in a way if its say a dometic fridge change out why not. I did have a fault on the main control panel and happy to fault along with the service team at the dealer once they were convinced it was the touch panel they sent me a new one and I sent them mine.

I use A and E Leisure , Northwich , for my Bailey work , during warranty the van never saw a dealership or manufacturing facility . bailey were happy with this (as i can guess the dealership was too ) , seems a simple solution to a complicated problem .

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[gwyntaxi]

Does not surprise me, back in 2007 we bought a new Autosleeper Inca, kept it about 6 months and got rid. One of the problems was that when you opened the oven door it scraped does the front of the toilet door, so you had to open the toilet door before you opened the oven door.

Auto sleepers are definitely not as well designed or made like the were years ago, they seem to be favouring cosmetics over practicality these days, that’s just poor design.