Vehicle Check (1 Viewer)

[wotme]

I have the feeling my 2007 Elnagh Fiat Ducato 2.8 is struggling. I bought the old girl middle of May this year and the test drive (on the flat) seemed okay to me. On top of its 41000 miles I reckon I've only added another 500. The last two journeys involved fairly steep hills and that's when I became aware the power just wasn't there. No problem maintaining 60mph on the flat without even pushing it. Acceleration away from the lights is surprisingly swift for 3.5 tons but its the inclines she doesn't like. Am I expecting too much or is this the norm for a 12yr old coachbuilt. The engine although noisy does not appear to be using oil so I hope this indicates the compression is okay. Having said that do you think I should have the engine and timing checked?

 

[pappajohn]

They all go better uphill in lower gears.
Doesn't sound like there's anything wrong but you're expecting car performance.

 

[Macca1954]

Firstly when was it last serviced fuel/air filter both or either will cause lack of power would be my 1st thought

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[David and Sally]

Sounds normal. No smoke out the exhaust? Normal fuel consumption?

Stirring the gearbox on hills is normal on mohos with 'normal' power.

 

[Macca1954]

Changing the filters could only improve anyything if it doesn’t then nothing lost nothing gained at least you no they’ve been done

 

[denisejoe]

We've got a 4.5 tonne A class with the 2.8 JTD engine, 16 years old, and does fine on hills. May just need a service. We have our serviced every year & MOT'd at the same time at a local garage.

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[wotme]

It was serviced 4 months ago by the dealer. What his idea of a service is I've no idea although it was noted in the service book as having the timing belt and a wheel bearing replaced. I don't remember getting a check list so maybe the filters were not done. My local garage is very good and they might be able to help. I'll get the filters replaced and let you know if there's any improvement. Thanks for your time posting replies.

 

[Figaro]

I have the same engine but 2003, and was concerned there may be a problem as it didn't like hills.
After changing everything it was still the same.
As said, you just have to anticipate the inclines, make sure your in the correct lane for them, then stir the gears.
It'll get up eventually.
Done two trips over Alps down to Croatia, never missed a beat, just slowed for the hills.
Take your time, it'll be fine
Worth checking / changing air and fuel filters

 

[wotme]

Just had a word with the dealer and he assures me the filters would have been done, so back to the drawing board. Considering it pulls away fine, runs well enough on the flat, burns no oil, no smoke, the fuel and air filters have been replaced (dealers word for that) so the only option really is to let the experts check it out. If it wasn't for your post Denisejoe I'd probably be happy to plod along but as a matter of interest please tell me your A Class with the same engine is noisy

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[Figaro]

I think a lot is down to peoples differing perceptions and expectations.
The 2.8 jtd is a little agricultural sounding but shouldn't be overly noisey in the cab.
I suspect your engine is just fine.

 

[wotme]

I guess I need to drive a similar vehicle to get a comparison, I'm not saying its that noisy I need ear defenders or I can't listen to the radio or I can't hear emergency vehicles but like you say Figaro it does sound a bit agricultural.

 

[hymerman]

I knew a mechanic many years ago that just used to give a vehicle a high rev run for a couple of miles to clear all the built up crap out of an engine and in effect give it a decoke.
I'm not a mechanic but wonder if this would still work?

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[denisejoe]

Just had a word with the dealer and he assures me the filters would have been done, so back to the drawing board. Considering it pulls away fine, runs well enough on the flat, burns no oil, no smoke, the fuel and air filters have been replaced (dealers word for that) so the only option really is to let the experts check it out. If it wasn't for your post Denisejoe I'd probably be happy to plod along but as a matter of interest please tell me your A Class with the same engine is noisy

Yep! We can't listen to the radio while we're going along as can't hear it! But no matter, we've put up with it since we bought it 6 or 7 years ago and will do for as long as we continue motorhoming, as can't afford another one!

We also have a caravan so when the MH decides it's time to call it a day we'll be back to car and caravan.

Denise

 

[Figaro]

I think they are at their best when driven hard.
Incidentally, nothing much I do changes the mpg noticeably, so I don't worry about driving it quite hard from time to time.
NB only drive it hard when the engine is hot, never do it to a cold engine

 

[SpeedyDux]

I believe that there were 2 different final drive ratios - some Ducato 2.8 MHs were overgeared due to the higher final drive therefore struggled in top on inclines, necessitating changing down.

So it could be normal for the OP.

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[ambulancekidd]

I knew a mechanic many years ago that just used to give a vehicle a high rev run for a couple of miles to clear all the built up crap out of an engine and in effect give it a decoke.
I'm not a mechanic but wonder if this would still work?

Tis called "An Italian Tune Up" & only really works on older non common rail engines, for heavens sake don't do this to a modern engine, you'd only end up with an expensive bill.

Our elderly moho has the older 2.5ltr turbo diesel which has mechanical fuel injection & hills do require a bit of anticipation.
Its quite hilly where we live in Scotland so steep hills are a way of life but as long as you don't look for much acceleration on a hill you should be fine.
We've all become used to modern engines in cars which romp up hills as if they weren't there.

 

[Jaws]

Am I expecting too much or is this the norm for a 12yr old coachbuilt.

To be honest I think yes, you probably are expecting more than it can deliver
At 40,000 miles it is for all intents and purposes still a new engine. Remember they are built primarily for commercial use and more normally would expect to see 100,000 miles a YEAR..
With modern ( post about Y2K ) 250,00 miles is still considered young for an engine

Try a 5.25 tonne tag axle with a 2.3ltr lump !
Then you will find out your one is like the Flying Scotsman by comparison !

 

[PeteH]

I had the 2.3, 6 speed Same year. It needed to be dropped 1 Gear, even 2 on some stiff climbs, Especially if towing, If the Fiat Diagnostics show no faults?. Then it is likely something you have to live with?

Just a thought, EGR Valve operation is not compromised is it? that can degrade performance?.

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[Jaws]

I had the 2.3, 6 speed Same year. It needed to be dropped 1 Gear, even 2 on some stiff climbs, Especially if towing, If the Fiat Diagnostics show no faults?. Then it is likely something you have to live with?

Just a thought, EGR Valve operation is not compromised is it? that can degrade performance?.

2007 2.8 does not have an EGR valve....

 

[matt34]

Mines the same hills can be a struggle drop down and away we go again, on the motor way can cruise 70/80 no problem mpg seems ok and we have the van fully loaded, I would think most are the same.

 

[PeteH]

2007 2.8 does not have an EGR valve....

Surprised. I am?. I thought the 2.8 was a derivative?. How does it manage the Emissions?.

Diesel engines
2.0 JTD/HDi​	PSA RHV	1,997 cc	SOHC 8v	Common rail direct injection	84 PS (62 kW; 83 hp) @ 4,000 rpm	192 N⋅m (142 lb⋅ft) @ 1,900 rpm	2002–2006
2.2 HDi1​	PSA 4HY	2,179 cc	SOHC 8v	Common rail direct injection	101 PS (74 kW; 100 hp) @ 4,000 rpm	240 N⋅m (180 lb⋅ft) @ 1,900 rpm	2002–2006
2.3 JTD2​	Iveco F1AE0481C	2,286 cc	DOHC 16v	Common rail direct injection	110 PS (81 kW; 110 hp) @ 3,600 rpm	270 N⋅m (200 lb⋅ft) @ 1,800 rpm	2002–2006
2.3 Multijet (Brazil)​	Iveco	2,286 cc	DOHC 16V	Common rail direct injection	127 PS (93 kW; 125 hp)		2009
2.8 JTD/HDi​	Iveco 8140.43S	2,800 cc	SOHC 8v	Common rail direct injection	128 PS (94 kW; 126 hp) @ 3,600 rpm	300 N⋅m (220 lb⋅ft) @ 1,800 rpm	2002–2006
2.8 JTD/HDi Power​	Iveco 8140.43N	2,800 cc	SOHC 8v	Common rail direct injection	146 PS (107 kW; 144 hp) @ 3,600 rpm	310 N⋅m (230 lb⋅ft) @ 1,500 rpm	2004–2006

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[pagey]

Tis called "An Italian Tune Up" & only really works on older non common rail engines, for heavens sake don't do this to a modern engine, you'd only end up with an expensive bill.

Our elderly moho has the older 2.5ltr turbo diesel which has mechanical fuel injection & hills do require a bit of anticipation.
Its quite hilly where we live in Scotland so steep hills are a way of life but as long as you don't look for much acceleration on a hill you should be fine.
We've all become used to modern engines in cars which romp up hills as if they weren't there.

unless its a euro 6 where its recommended to clean the dpf

 

[Hymer 1961]

I have the feeling my 2007 Elnagh Fiat Ducato 2.8 is struggling. I bought the old girl middle of May this year and the test drive (on the flat) seemed okay to me. On top of its 41000 miles I reckon I've only added another 500. The last two journeys involved fairly steep hills and that's when I became aware the power just wasn't there. No problem maintaining 60mph on the flat without even pushing it. Acceleration away from the lights is surprisingly swift for 3.5 tons but its the inclines she doesn't like. Am I expecting too much or is this the norm for a 12yr old coachbuilt. The engine although noisy does not appear to be using oil so I hope this indicates the compression is okay. Having said that do you think I should have the engine and timing checked?

As others have alluded to, new filters etc will help if a service is needed.

41k miles on a Ducato 2.8 is less than a quarter of its life providing it’s looked after.

On our previous MH with the 2.8l Ducato engine, we fitted a tuning box from tdi-tuning.com which completely transformed the driving experience. The engine delivered much more torque making long inclines and hills far easier to climb. No more changing down on motorways and getting stuck behind HGV’s. It’s now been retuned and fitted to our new Hymer with a 3.0l engine which helps with fuel economy and torque if needed.

 

[pappajohn]

I guess I need to drive a similar vehicle to get a comparison, I'm not saying its that noisy I need ear defenders or I can't listen to the radio or I can't hear emergency vehicles but like you say Figaro it does sound a bit agricultural.

I guess that's why sellers have jumped on the bandwagon and sell aftermarket sound deadener kits.
It's primary purpose is a builders van, builders don't care if it's noisy....they aren't in it long enough.

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[ambulancekidd]

unless its a euro 6 where its recommended to clean the dpf

Sort of correct, a nice run along the bypass or motorhway in a lower gear than normal.
Too many of us drive shortish distances at too low a speed to allow the DPF to do its job.

 

[Jaws]

Surprised. I am?. I thought the 2.8 was a derivative?. How does it manage the Emissions?.

Diesel engines
2.0 JTD/HDi​	PSA RHV	1,997 cc	SOHC 8v	Common rail direct injection	84 PS (62 kW; 83 hp) @ 4,000 rpm	192 N⋅m (142 lb⋅ft) @ 1,900 rpm	2002–2006
2.2 HDi1​	PSA 4HY	2,179 cc	SOHC 8v	Common rail direct injection	101 PS (74 kW; 100 hp) @ 4,000 rpm	240 N⋅m (180 lb⋅ft) @ 1,900 rpm	2002–2006
2.3 JTD2​	Iveco F1AE0481C	2,286 cc	DOHC 16v	Common rail direct injection	110 PS (81 kW; 110 hp) @ 3,600 rpm	270 N⋅m (200 lb⋅ft) @ 1,800 rpm	2002–2006
2.3 Multijet (Brazil)​	Iveco	2,286 cc	DOHC 16V	Common rail direct injection	127 PS (93 kW; 125 hp)		2009
2.8 JTD/HDi​	Iveco 8140.43S	2,800 cc	SOHC 8v	Common rail direct injection	128 PS (94 kW; 126 hp) @ 3,600 rpm	300 N⋅m (220 lb⋅ft) @ 1,800 rpm	2002–2006
2.8 JTD/HDi Power​	Iveco 8140.43N	2,800 cc	SOHC 8v	Common rail direct injection	146 PS (107 kW; 144 hp) @ 3,600 rpm	310 N⋅m (230 lb⋅ft) @ 1,500 rpm	2004–2006

No idea but believe me our 2007 Miller had the 2.8 in it and did not have an EGR valve

 

[John de Manche]

Just wondering if lack of power and noisy engine could be caused by a turbo problem.
John

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[busbuddy]

some 2.8jtd's have an egr and some have a catalytic converter as well, luck of the draw it seems

the jtd's gearbox has a massive gap in ratio from 4th to 5th so a drop down normally sorts it, the next generation kept the 5th gear final ratio but squeezed in an extra gear between 4th and 5th making it a 6 speed

not found the jtd overly noisy to be honest and only get caught in the wrong gear in the dark when i dont see the hill coming

have you weighed your van?......i can definitely feel the difference when im empty and when im full