Using a Scooter with motorhome (1 Viewer)

[peterc10]

Hi, I am still a newbie so would like some advice please

I am looking at the feasibility of using a lightweight Scooter with my motorhome. Looking at the Honda Vision 110 which weighs in at 102kg. We are retirees (just) and I have a full UK motorbike licence, but in reality have not ridden one since 1969 when I got rid of my Lambretta. The Honda seemed easy to control and I felt at home on it straight away. My wife seemed OK on the back. Mind you all of this was in the showroom, not on the road!

I can get it in the garage of my Adria Coral 660SL (just), and it will still leave me about 50kg of spare loading capacity in there for chairs etc. Have been looking at lightweight ramps and a wheel chock.

I am thinking of using it so that I can go and see local attractions and shops while leaving the motorhome set up. I guess the maximum distance we will go in a day on it will be 50 - 100 miles, and I doubt I will ever take it out when it raining. We will stay in and read on those days.

So how easy is all this? Is it easy to wheel it up the ramp and in? All the pros and cons please of using it the way we are thinking would be helpful.

Edit - one more thing I have just checked. We have bed supports going across the garage and the Honda's handlebars will not go under them. So I will need to back it in rather than wheel it in! Feasible???

Many thanks in advance

 

[pappajohn]

are you using the rear axles max weight and the scooters weight in your calculation ?

if so it doesnt work thsat way.

the scooter may be 102kg but positioned aft of the rear axle imposes a higher weight on the axle due to the leverage effect.

you obviously have the axle weights so try this calculator to get an accurate axle weight with the scooter in the garage.

scroll down the page to LDA, below the chart is the download option.

enter theweights and measures as accurately as you can.

Link Removed

 

[Nirvanauk]

Just to let you know that I carry a Honda 125 on a rack on the back of my PVC. It seems to work well with no problems getting it on or off. However it does take the payload perilously close to max leaving me only about 40 kgs spare. I too have recently retired and loving it

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[peterc10]

Pappajohn. Yes I know about dynamics, cos I are (or wuz) an enguneer. I am using the maximum payload (150kg) for the garage as advised by Adria and the maker of the chassis extension that the the garage sits on. Don't have much behind the rear axle other than that. And I have a pretty healthy overall payload (over 500kg). So I think I am OK on that front.

NirvanaUK - don't want to put it on the back as, because of those pesky dynamics, and the chassis extension, I would be able to load nothing in the garage at all. How do you get on with your motorbike (more of that than a scooter isn't it?).

 

[herbies]

try these people. i have one and it works very well
good luck

 

[peterc10]

Herbies. Thanks but there seems to be no link in your post

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[voyagerstan]

got 250 honda on the back of ours realy enjoy it gives you allsorts of options , exploring ,shopping , out for the day . must say i to am a fair weather rider so used mostly souther europe and africa . cant help with garage cos ive got rack but i think it would be tricky putting it in backwards . riving2: stan

 

[Nirvanauk]

NirvanaUK - don't want to put it on the back as, because of those pesky dynamics, and the chassis extension, I would be able to load nothing in the garage at all. How do you get on with your motorbike (more of that than a scooter isn't it?).[/QUOTE]

To be quite honest I am fine on my own its when the missus gets on the back that I feel less stable. Also, I was never a big biker so now into my mid 60s I do feel a bit nervous, although I make myself feel fat so take up more of the road so other people give me a wider berth.

 

[TheBig1]

be aware putting a motorcycle/scooter inside the "garage" takes your van into a different tax/MOT category as a "living van". Ask Alan on here, he is an expert on such things.

get stopped by VOSA, who are having a bit of a campaign at present and your wrongly registered/taxed/moted then its big trouble and a big fine.

oh and take the manufacturers garage payload with a pinch of salt. the only true test is load up with water, fuel, food, clothes and occupants etc and then go weigh it all at a weigh bridge. the manufacturers can only quote for an empty van as it leaves the factory, and even then some are just wrong. it happens all the time, and you would not be the first or last to have this issue

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[peterc10]

TheBig1

What is a "living van"? I am not going to be living in it all the time (like some others on here). It will be for trips away and I am confused as to how putting a scooter in a garage (as opposed to the alternative of a couple of electric bikes) changes things in the respect of it no longer being a motorhome. Why is it different to having the scooter (or bikes) on the back I wonder? Be especially interested in the relevant Acts if possible so I can do a bit of research into it.

As for loading, all of the things you list are between the wheels, and in the case of the heaviest ones, i.e. water fuel and occupants, much closer to the front than back axle. Whilst that adds to both axles it does not have the magnifying effect that the cantilever load in the garage does. But I will take your advice and take it to a weighbridge once I have got it loaded.

 

[TheBig1]

[HI]a quote from elsewhere:-[/HI]

The following information appears in the Feb 2007 issue of Motor Caravan.

[VOSA has changed the classification of some Motor Caravans to "Living Vans" so that they now require a class vii (Goods Vehicle) MOT. The changes will affect motor homes with garages, over 3000 kg. A Living Van between 3000kg and 3500 kg requires a Class vii MOT while Living Vans over 3500 kg could be subject to a HGV MOT every year from new.

Rob Haggar of the Department of Transport clarifies what is meant by a Living Van. He said "It is our view that bikes or cars carried in a designated area on a vehicle should be regarded as goods and that vehicles which have the capacity to carry such items within them have to be regarded as Living Vans and not Motor Caravans"]

The Class vii MOT (£53.80) is specifically for goods vehicles and not the same as the Class iv MOT (£50.35) for cars and Motor Caravans.

 

[TheBig1]

just checked my old files for this

"A 'motor caravan' is "a motor vehicle (not being a living van) which is
constructed or adapted for the carriage of passengers and their effects and
which contains, as permanently installed equipment, the facilities which
are reasonably necessary for enabling the vehicle to provide mobile living
accommodation for its users". Motor caravans are not classed as goods
vehicles for MOT test purposes and are therefore in class IV or V depending
on their seating capacity but regardless of their size or weight.
A 'living van' is "a vehicle, whether mechanically propelled or not, which
is used for living accommodation by one or more persons and which is also
used for the carriage of goods or burden which are not needed by such one
or more persons for the purpose of their residence in the vehicle". 'Living
vans' are classed as goods vehicles and, depending on their weight, are
therefore in either class IV or VII within the MOT test scheme or are
subject to HGV plating and testing.
A 'living van' up to 3000kg dgw (Design Gross Weight) would require a class IV
test, and the first MOT would be due on the third anniversary of first
registration.
'Living vans' over 3000kg and up to 3500kg dgw require a class
VII test and would require an MOT when the vehicle is 1 year old.
(NB This statement was later corrected - see below)
If the 'living van' is over this weight then it would be a HGV MOT test that the
vehicle would require and this also would be due when the vehicle is 1 year
old. "

so basically, if you carry a car or motorcycle or scooter inside your motorhome it becomes a living van. It does not relate to living full time in the van

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[herbies]

sorry they are called wattling engineering if you google that
K/R

 

[peterc10]

If this covers "any vehicles which have the capacity to carry such items within them", as is being suggested in the quote, that would include my motorhome (and about 30% of all newer motorhomes which are capable of carrying bikes inside them) whether or not they are actually carrying anything of the sort.

So I do not have a motorhome after all, and nor does anybody who is using a van that is capable of carrying a bike (note not motorbike in the quote) or car. And if we include a folding bike in that description, then it would cover about 95% of motorhomes. Seems ludicrous to me.

I am not digging at you at all (thanks for pointing it out to me) just the daft idiot from the DoT who made the quote. The terms "goods" is usually used in a commercial sense, in that the goods are being carried (or sold in the case of certain legislation) for some form of reward or some form of commercial or professional activity. So I was carrying a bike because I was a professional cyclist, or to hire it out once I got on site, or to use it as a display to sell bikes or parts. None of that applies to me. Otherwise my clothes or the food I carry could be classed as "goods".

I would be really interested in seeing the relevant legislation as that will put this all into better context. Can anybody help me with that please - just the name of the Act so I can find it on line myself.

In the 6 years since that quote was made has anybody actually had this sort of problem when carrying bikes (motor or otherwise) inside their van please?

 

[vwalan]

hi the big 1 as it exact .
but i use a chinese dax style two seater monkey bike .with fold down handlebars .
carries two fat bas---ds and fits into a low space .Link Removed
similer to this .mine is a 2001 great bike

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[ivorantony]

Hi I have a vision 110 that fits inside my Adria vision with room to spare,
It's great for visiting town centres and local shops, did take her for a 150 mile trip once buts its really a commuting machine, with a top box it will hold two full face helmets, plenty of space for the shopping when going to town,

 

[peterc10]

Thanks ivorantony. Do you have any trouble wheeling it up the ramp and into the garage. How do you hold it steady in the garage please? And I was looking to get a topbox too. I will need one that can easily be removed because of the height issue

I think the Vision is an A class with a similar layout to my Coral coachbuilt, except I have 2 single beds at the rear rather than one double. I think the garage may have a bit more height than my Coral, although it looks about the same width so I am glad it fits easily.

 

[peterc10]

Sorry TheBig1 I did not see the more detailed info in your latest post when I replied previously. So it all comes down to the definition of "goods or burden which are not needed by such one or more persons for the purpose of their residence in the vehicle".

I wonder why that covers a motorbike to get around, but not bikes to get around. I don't "need" a camera or a set of hiking boots or a walking stick or my BBQ for "the purpose" of my "residence in the vehicle" do I. They are all related to what I do outside the vehicle, as are the bikes and scooter. So anybody with those is also in trouble? And it applies equally to any "carrying" of these items, so that would include on a rack or trailer?

Has anybody actually had any sort of problem with the carrying of scooters or motorbikes?

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[ivorantony]

Hi I fitted a motorcycle stand similar to this one
Link Removed

And also a aluminium sliding ramp, I don't need to remove mirrors and just push her in until she locks into the stand, then two ratchet tied owns to hold her in place, it's easy to do on my own but she goes forward up the ramp and not backwards,
I find it amazing that people accept nonsencle rules that have no baring on safety, just put in to raise revenue, if I carried my scooter on the outside rear it would increase my rear axel load to a unacceptable level but in the eyes of VOSA
That's fine as long I am not running overweight, absolutely absurd !!!

 

[peterc10]

Many thanks again ivorantony.

As I said in previous post your garage must be quite a bit higher than mine. I will need to take the mirrors off to get it in, and then only if I push it in backwards. Do you find it easy pushing it up the ramp or do you "drive" it up?

Also does your ramp slide in with the bike? It is flat or V-shaped? The ones I have been looking at are like Link Removed. Is yours more like Link Removed?

Thanks for help and sorry for all the questions

 

[vwalan]

the rules havent changed they have been like it for years .i got rid of a bedford bus years ago as i was warned by the ministry that i could be in trouble if carrying m,bikes in the back .actually in 91. stock car lads got warned and for awhile vosa waited down the road from the race tracks .
they do tend to turn a blind eye but that doesnt make it legal . anytime they can pull you .
i built my trailer deliberately as a living van 13yrs ago . under guidance from vosa .

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[ivorantony]

Hi Peter
It's similar to this one without the locking cradle,
http://www.fiammastore.com/Fiamma-Carry-Moto/Fiamma-Carry-Moto-Pro-For-Motorhome-Garage
I just push her in without difficulty, the vision is a light machine and the loading angle quite gentle,
What legal rights have VOSA to search a vehicle if its within its allowed axel weights with MOT and tax? Just curious!

 

[Forestboy]

I carry a 650cc Kawasaki Versys in the garage of my Hymer (despite being told it couldn't be done) but it is 4500 gvw and has over 1000kg payload. Use the same ramp as ivorantony and a ratchet strap on each side of the handlebars, takes less than 5 minutes to load or unload. I do take the mirrors off and have adapted the screen to a quick release so it fits in easily, very tall bike. Load it forwards and do drive it in on the clutch and just push in the last 2ft. Not sure I could load it backwards on my own but it does weigh 200kgs.
As for the living van nonsense I'm afraid if you listen to all the doom and gloom merchants you'll never take your van out of the drive. I'll carry what I want in my van and not worry about it and if it eventually has to have a HGV mot then so be it.
My advice find away to load your bike in, then get out and enjoy it :thumb:

 

[philk]

Vosa and living vans

This rediculousness of this will become apparent when they pull up a lawyer or barrister and this will all blow over. Anyway, i came on the site wifi in Audenge to post about something else and saw this. No one has been charged because they will not make it stick, brand new Cathargo low profiles with scooter specific garages and chassis/load capacities are actually vans. This needs clarification and bloody quickly.
I am first time out with an armitage side loading single bike trailer, it tows superbly, the bike and rack are off the motorhome and i can carry other things on the trailer quite easily within its weight capacity (240kg). I have reversed around two cirners and onto two pitches, its a doddle. Just a quickie, thanks for the air suspension repair phil Rhinoinstall. Got stuck under a branch getting into a tight site and just lowered it, cool.

Phil