Uprate (1 Viewer)

[Deleted member 29692]

That's not what https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-weights-explained says.

Mike

That's over simplified to make it easy for everyone to understand like pretty much everything on the GOV site. Otherwise they'd spend all their time endlessly explaining stuff to people who still wouldn't understand.

It's usually determined for vehicles like cars as they come off the production line before any fluids are added.

Either way my point holds up.

The MIRO figure that everyone confuses with Unladen Weight includes fuel. Unladen Weight doesn't.

If you can be bothered to look for it the specific definition of UW for a motor caravan you'll it far more detailed than for other types of vehicle. Almost all the things that are included in a MIRO figure - water, fuel, driver and so on - are specifically excluded from an Unladen Weight figure. We've been through this so many times it's boring now so I can't be bothered to find it again.

The other thing that it doesn't change is that you still won't find a motorhome converter that will quote you a specific unladen weight figure on any official paperwork because they simply don't have a clue what it is.

 

[Badknee]

I got our supplier BCS Manchester to put ours over the weigh bridge before we bought it, a great starting point as it was completely empty apart from a quarter tank of fuel.

 

[barsteward]

les@nowtotallyconfused.com

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[G7UXG]

It's usually determined for vehicles like cars as they come off the production line before any fluids are added.

What about the cases where 'usually' doesn't apply?

Almost all the things that are included in a MIRO figure - water, fuel, driver and so on - are specifically excluded from an Unladen Weight figure.

No argument there !

Ultimately, where there is ambiguity (as in many areas of UK law) a Court will interpret the legislation and make the final decision.

I'd guess that if PC Plod had to prove your unladen weight in order to support a prosecution for exceeding the lower speed limits they'd probably put it in the 'too difficult to do' pile and move on to something easier.

Personally, I'll accept that my motorhome is subject to the lower limits.

Mike

 

[Deleted member 29692]

What about the cases where 'usually' doesn't apply?

Then the manufacturer will do something else. The important thing is that the unladen weight is what is referred to in the motorcycle world as the dry weight.

I'm sure Fiat or Mercedes or whoever do record a figure as part of their standard procedure when they produce a chassis but obviously if that chassis then has a motorhome built on it the figure will be completely meaningless.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I'd guess that if PC Plod had to prove your unladen weight in order to support a prosecution for exceeding the lower speed limits they'd probably put it in the 'too difficult to do' pile and move on to something easier.

I'd be amazed if your average Plod has the slightest clue that limits for motor caravans are defined using this method. It it isn't used for any other type of vehicle.

It's just one of those weird quirks in the law that nobody cares enough about to fix.

If it became an issue they would swiftly change it and use 3500kg/>3500kg which is easy to verify on the spot.

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[stevec]

My current V5C only has the revenue weight as 3500kg, there are no other weights on it.

No Maximum Permissible Mass on my V5, only Revenue Weight and Mass In Service. I've applied for an increase in Revenue Weight to 3850kg. I think I'd better phone the DVLA and check that they will put that figure in the MPM value. I wasn't aware that this was important abroad.

 

[Stretto Boy]

 

[Norfolk Nomad]

Just received an invoice from JR consultancy for my uprate, £150. Can't beat that price.

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[Flamenca]

Just received an invoice from JR consultancy for my uprate, £150. Can't beat that price.

I used him and everything went smoothly with DVLA

 

[Norfolk Nomad]

Just received a design weight certificate and new stick on weight plate from JR Consultancy, do I just need to put the new GVM weight on the V5 and send it with the certificate?

 

[Poutie57]

It seems everyone uses these 2 companies but could someone please tell me why can't you deal directly with the DVLA if you have all the dimensions and facts about the chassis etc. Surely it's just a form filling excercise

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[Minxy]

It seems everyone uses these 2 companies but could someone please tell me why can't you deal directly with the DVLA if you have all the dimensions and facts about the chassis etc. Surely it's just a form filling excercise

Unfortunately they won't accept it from 'joe public' it has to be confirmed by a qualified engineer ...

 

[Deleted member 29692]

It seems everyone uses these 2 companies but could someone please tell me why can't you deal directly with the DVLA if you have all the dimensions and facts about the chassis etc. Surely it's just a form filling excercise

If you're a chartered engineer you can.

If you're not you need someone appropriately qualified to sign a declaration that your vehicle is safe to be operated at the new weight. Nobody at the DVLA would understand the calculations etc even if you were capable of doing them yourself which is why they want to see a letter from an an engineer.

 

[Poutie57]

Thank you for explaining that for me,

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[Two on Tour]

Just received a design weight certificate and new stick on weight plate from JR Consultancy, do I just need to put the new GVM weight on the V5 and send it with the certificate?

How have you got on with the DVLA @Norfolk Nomad, have you received back your amended V5 ? as I'm interested as to what happens with the current road fund tax that was on your motorhome. Did the DVLA refund the remaining months you had left and issue a new tax disc at the new revenue weight. I'm interested as I'll likely be sending my paperwork of the DVLA next week but have seen the note at the bottom of section 7 on the V5 that says
"The tax class shown in section 4 can only be changed when taxing. Please apply at your nearest Post Office."

 

[Lenny HB]

You don't have a tax disc anymore, they just refund the difference so your tax renewal date stays the same, can take up to a couple of months to get the refund.

 

[Two on Tour]

You don't have a tax disc anymore

Ye alright, so maybe I should have said virtual tax disc or the like, so what about the "The tax class shown in section 4 can only be changed when taxing. Please apply at your nearest Post Office." is that so or will that have been amended on the re issued V5.

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[Lenny HB]

Ye alright, so maybe I should have said virtual tax disc or the like, so what about the "The tax class shown in section 4 can only be changed when taxing. Please apply at your nearest Post Office." is that so or will that have been amended on the re issued V5.

As I said they just give you a refund and yes they change the taxation class.

I would have thought you were old enough to know not to believe every everything you read on the DVLA site.

 

[Two on Tour]

I would have thought you were old enough to know not to believe every everything you read on the DVLA site.

The statement "The tax class shown in section 4 can only be changed when taxing. Please apply at your nearest Post Office." is on the V5 and after 4 months of trying (finally did) to get a registration for an Austin 7 van imported from New Zealand, they did nothing to convince me otherwise of my previous views that they are a bunch tick box, pass the buck t*ssers.
O for those past day when you could go into a regional DVLA office and sort most things there and then.

 

[Minxy]

Once you've got your new V5C you need to go and re-tax your MH at a Post Office and pay for it in full or for 6 months. If you want to pay it monthly by DD you can't do it then so instead need to wait until the end of the first 'taxed' month then SORN it and re-tax it online at the beginning of the next month and select DD payment.

You should automatically get a refund of the 'excess' tax you've paid from your 3500kg rate but it might take a while.

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[Norfolk Nomad]

How have you got on with the DVLA @Norfolk Nomad, have you received back your amended V5 ? as I'm interested as to what happens with the current road fund tax that was on your motorhome. Did the DVLA refund the remaining months you had left and issue a new tax disc at the new revenue weight. I'm interested as I'll likely be sending my paperwork of the DVLA next week but have seen the note at the bottom of section 7 on the V5 that says
"The tax class shown in section 4 can only be changed when taxing. Please apply at your nearest Post Office."

Still waiting for the V5 to be returned, it's been 4 weeks now.

 

[Teuchter]

Call me ultra cautious but why travel abroad with a V5 showing 3850 Kgs Revenue Weight (ie for taxation) as one figure and the Maximimum Permissable Mass (ie for carrying stuff) as a lower figure (3500 Kgs) if the vehicle is technically capable of carrying more?

The fact that DVLA corrected it would suggest there's a discrepancy.

Our vehicle is 2017 reg and it has the F.1 (MPM) category on the V5 - I don't have a copy of our previous MH's document so I can't speak for 2005.

When I uprated from 3500 to 4000 then the returned V5 gave both weights - 4000 for revenue & 3500 for max permissible!!

I first contacted SV Tech (who did the uprating) and they told me that 9 times out of 10 this is what the DVLA do!! but it is not a big deal - they will change it if asked

I then sent V5 back to DVLA (having kept a copy) with a covering letter asking politely for the max permissible figure to be altered to reflect the true vehicle status ie 4000 and within a fortnight had a new V5 with both figures now showing 4000 - job done!

Why DVLA do not do this automatically every time a vehicle is uprated remains a mystery - cock up or conspiracy?

 

[Lenny HB]

Took 4 months for them to get mine right on the last van.

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[Neckender]

I’ve been waiting 4 weeks now and heard nothing from DVLA.

John.

 

[magicsurfbus]

cock up or conspiracy?

The change of details section on the V5 doesn't include MPM, and I'm told that those who log the changes are more concerned with its tax classification than its technical details.

Lucky you getting the revised revised V5 back from the DVLA - silly sods lost mine.

 

[pappajohn]

That way you'll be compensated if Royal Fail lose it.

Compensated for what ?

You can't put a monitory value on a V5 so the only compensation would be postage costs.

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[pappajohn]

You've lost me now, I thought that revenue weight was the important one. Have I missed something?

Revenue weight is for the 'road' tax category only and has No bearing on anything else.
Gross weight/MAM/MPM or anything else they want it known as is the only weight as far as capacities are concerned.

 

[magicsurfbus]

Compensated for what ?

You can't put a monitory value on a V5 so the only compensation would be postage costs.

It costs £25 to replace a lost V5. In our case it was waived at DVLA's discretion because I'd only re-submitted it for them to correct their own MPM omission. Had it been lost by Royal Mail during the initial application the Signed For service would not have compensated me for 'subsequent' losses (ie cost of replacement), only for the postage. Special Delivery is more expensive but compensates for subsequent losses up to a certain limit, £50 in the first instance or more if you pay extra. When I'm eBay selling I always use Special Delivery for items valued over £50.