Up-Rating The Hard Way (1 Viewer)

[Kingham]

Cheap Is Not Always Best.

A timeline of my PVC up-rate thus far and I'm not best pleased.

22/04 Emailed John Ruffles Consultancy asking them to do the up-rate and providing the fact that I was on the XL chassis, with Al-Kober Air Tops and tyres load rated to 118, all of which would allow me to go to 4500kg max wt and increase my rear axle to 2600kg.

I asked JRC to confirm that I could go to those weights, asked their cost and also what they needed from me to get the ball rolling.

24/04 Received email confirmation from JR that my van is the right spec to go to the weights I previously quoted and to proceed, I was required to send a copy of page 2 of my V5 and an image of my VIN plate.

Sent the images and paid the fee.

05/05 Called home and found JR had sent out my new VIN and certificate, but had not increased the rear axle weight as previously discussed. Sent Email to JRC to explain this.

06/05. Received email from JR and I quote "YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NOT READ MY EMAIL OF 27/4 WHEN I ADVISED YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO EXCEED THE MANUFACTURERS AXLE WEIGHT WITHOUT SOME FORM OF MODIFICATION, SUCH AS AIR ASSIST"

Ah ! So it's my fault, because I didn't read an email that I never got, purportedly dated 27/04, three days after I'd already had confirmation from JR that my van had the requisite mods and we could proceed.

07/05 Emailed JR to advise of the above and politely asked that he carefully re-read my initial email, where I confirm all of the mods.

Later that day I received an email from JR, in which he says he missed the fact that I had Air Tops fitted (which is at odds with his email of 24/04) and apologised for that mistake, but continued "MAYBE I WOULD NOT HAVE MISSED IT HAD I HAD SIGHT OF THE ALKO PLATE"

Ah ! So it's still my fault, because I sent JR precisely what he asked for when I initially asked what he needed from me to proceed, when in fact I should have guessed that he had actually not asked for everything he needed.... my bad !

Anyway, he said he would make it his first job on Monday.

16/05 Returned home and found JR had rectified his mistake and had sent me a new VIN plate with the correct weights this time and also a new certificate, nicely laminated, but crucially missing JR's signature and date of signing.
Not wanting to have to email JR again and knowing the answer before I rang them, I checked with DVLA to see if they would accept the certificate as it was, but they confirmed that it is an official document and it was vital that I send a signed and dated certificate.

Later that day I advised JR by email of his omission and third time lucky, a third certificate has arrived today and it is correct, but no explanation or offer of apology for sending out an unsigned certificate.

I appreciate that even Engineers have bad days and obviously make mistakes, but to lay the blame for those mistakes firmly at your customer's door and accuse your customer of not reading emails correctly, when your customer has read every email and done everything you asked of them, is not professional and has left a bit of a bad taste and me wishing I'd paid the extra money and gone to SVTech.

 

[CazPaul]

Yes poor on his behalf, cannot even be man enough to own up to mistakes, terrible.

Sort of guy who causes a road accident through his mistake, admits it at the scene, then you get a letter from his insurance company a week later saying it was all your fault.

How much did you pay him by the way?

 

[SM0129]

He was spot on when I dealt with him.

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[Stretto Boy]

It's not so much the making of the mistakes - although there are a few too many to be acceptable - as trying to cover it up and blame the customer. This publicity on the Fun forum will cost him more than doing the right thing ever would. Within reason, I am usually content with firms that make mistakes if they own up and put it right without fuss or excuses.

 

[Minxy]

@Kingham, I'm sorry you've had some problems with John as he's usually very good, I am aware that he moves between 2 properties (England and Wales) and this isn't his main line of business, so it may simply be he's been rushing a bit to get stuff to you and missed something, after all since I 'found' him he's been pretty much bombarded by funsters and others wanting him to do the necessary certification for their uprating.

As regards your VIN plate, it should have been accompanied by the Alko one you sent him which supersedes the original VIN plate, and I take his 'comment' about this as his mentioning it more as a 'note to self' rather than chastising you after all he did apologise for this, but as you were already in the 'annoyed' frame of mind it appears you read it a different way.

As for not signing, it's easy when rushing to miss something, but he rectified it for you so all's well now I assume.

If you wanted to pay SVTech for their service at over twice the price then you could have done so, but surely these little hiccups were more than made up for with the money you've saved?

 

[Minxy]

Yes poor on his behalf, cannot even be man enough to own up to mistakes, terrible.

Sort of guy who causes a road accident through his mistake, admits it at the scene, then you get a letter from his insurance company a week later saying it was all your fault.

How much did you pay him by the way?

That is extremely unfair IMV, you don't know him at all so to condemn him without the full facts is wrong. I asked him originally if he would be happy for me to give his info out to others as I knew he had other commitments which he was, but I never expected the sheer number of people to use his services that have, and I suspect he didn't realise either!

He's saved MHers a LOT of money, probably something like £4,500 in total going on the number of people I know of who've used him (funsters and others) so that's not to be dismissed out of hand ... he could easily have said he wouldn't do it for anyone else especially at the ridiculously low price he was originally charging, but he didn't.

I've had some hiccups with well known professionals who are well thought of by others - I won't say who and just put them down to me being unlucky as in the bigger scheme it was just a blip from all the positive comments for that professional by others.

I believe the 'going rate' for John's service is £150, SVTech I believe charge £360.

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[Minxy]

It's not so much the making of the mistakes - although there are a few too many to be acceptable - as trying to cover it up and blame the customer. This publicity on the Fun forum will cost him more than doing the right thing ever would. Within reason, I am usually content with firms that make mistakes if they own up and put it right without fuss or excuses.

So ... you blatantly want him to lose business, but more importantly you want 'funsters' to suffer because the OP had a bit of hassle? That's very, very mean IMV.

@Kingham Have you informed John of your thread so that he has the opportunity to give his side of the story for balance? After all we've only seen your 'quotes' of what he wrote, but no 'quotes' of what you wrote in the first place to which he responded ... how about quoting the whole lot on here so we can all see what the full story is?

 

[sdc77]

It's refreshing to see a comprehensive summary of an incident when dealing with a company ... nice one OP.
JRC bought it on themselves. .. but normaly they seem to be efficient and professional.
Edit
Cant see anything to suggest the OP is telling porkies @Minxy Girl
Plenty of threads on here criticising various companies.. I'm pretty sure they don't get special investigation (and you wernt quoting the op btw ... )

 

[Allanm]

I take all the points about what's right, wrong or should have been done, but to send out a certificate with no date or signature is pretty bad. Not only should it have been checked when it was filled it, but somebody laminated it too and the omissions should have been picked up then.
However, yesterday, I sent them an email regarding uprating my van and am waiting for a reply.
I used SVTech 3 years ago when I uprated my previous van and £325 ( as it was then) is a lot of money for a simple paper exercise. I'll see how I get on with JC

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[Minxy]

It's refreshing to see a comprehensive summary of an incident when dealing with a company ... nice one OP.
JRC bought it on themselves. .. but normaly they seem to be efficient and professional.
Edit
Cant see anything to suggest the OP is telling porkies @Minxy Girl
Plenty of threads on here criticising various companies.. I'm pretty sure they don't get special investigation (and you wernt quoting the op btw ... )

Thanks ref the quoting, I've amended my comments accordingly.

Never said the OP was telling porkies.

Having spoken to John a few times, rather than just relying on emails, when I originally looked into uprating etc, I know he's a very nice (older) chap and came highly recommended by others in the business. I also know he has other things going on that have probably made this a bigger hiccup than it would otherwise have been so condemning him purely from the OP's experience, and another blatantly wishing his business 'harm', is totally over the top in the reported circumstances, especially when he doesn't have any means of recourse unless he's informed of this thread's existence.

Its not a 'special investigation' by me ... I don't like people 'jumping on the bandwagon' and being 'mean' for the sake of it. It could be any thread, about any company, it just so happens this is an uprating thread and I know a bit more about the chap than some others do.

 

[Minxy]

I take all the points about what's right, wrong or should have been done, but to send out a certificate with no date or signature is pretty bad. Not only should it have been checked when it was filled it, but somebody laminated it too and the omissions should have been picked up then.
However, yesterday, I sent them an email regarding uprating my van and am waiting for a reply.
I used SVTech 3 years ago when I uprated my previous van and £325 ( as it was then) is a lot of money for a simple paper exercise. I'll see how I get on with JC

Unfortunately mistakes are made and the OP has been on the receiving end but there are many funsters who have used John without a problem.

 

[Kingham]

So ... you blatantly want him to lose business, but more importantly you want 'funsters' to suffer because the OP had a bit of hassle? That's very, very mean IMV.

@Kingham Have you informed John of your thread so that he has the opportunity to give his side of the story for balance? After all we've only seen your 'quotes' of what he wrote, but no 'quotes' of what you wrote in the first place to which he responded ... how about quoting the whole lot on here so we can all see what the full story is?

Minxy, I wasn't aware that John was a participant on here and therefore why would I inform him of my post. Do you really think I've got nothing better to do than fabricate a story about someone I've never met. I have posted this today so that forum members know that I'm not at all happy with the level of service, for exactly the reasons in my OP and they are free to make their own minds up whether to use the company.

I am more than happy to cut & paste every email between John and myself, but not without his implicit consent, however you can trust that I have intentionally been very factual in what I posted as I am very aware that to even insinuate a non truth or to post a defamatory comment, could cost me dearly.

The full story is exactly what I have posted, just without all the boring detail and you can invite John to come along and comment on that if you wish. A truer picture of events, would also include the unanswered telephone calls and voicemails from me to both John's main number and also his NW office.

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[Stretto Boy]

So ... you blatantly want him to lose business, but more importantly you want 'funsters' to suffer because the OP had a bit of hassle? That's very, very mean IMV.

I would never wish to be unfair to anyone and it may be that, as you say, he is very busy. As I said in my post it is not so much the mistakes - we all make them - but the fact that he didn't seem to be prepared to 'fess up and preferred to try and blame the customer. Perhaps I'm old-fashioned but I was brought up to believe that the customer is always right. If I was the customer, swift apologies followed by immediate remedial action would have worked wonders. I have been loyal for many years to a couple of firms who I felt did a poor job because they did the right thing when I complained. This gave me the confidence to continue using them, reasonably secure in the knowledge that I would be treated fairly if problems occurred again. I don't expect anyone to be 100% perfect in doing their job but I do expect to be treated fairly every time. You obviously have faith in him so perhaps it is a one-off aberration. At the risk of repeating myself, perfection all the time is impossible but I do think you can be fair all the time. Just my take, based on the facts as reported by the OP which I have no reason to doubt.

 

[CazPaul]

That is extremely unfair IMV, you don't know him at all so to condemn him without the full facts is wrong. I asked him originally if he would be happy for me to give his info out to others as I knew he had other commitments which he was, but I never expected the sheer number of people to use his services that have, and I suspect he didn't realise either!

He's saved MHers a LOT of money, probably something like £4,500 in total going on the number of people I know of who've used him (funsters and others) so that's not to be dismissed out of hand ... he could easily have said he wouldn't do it for anyone else especially at the ridiculously low price he was originally charging, but he didn't.

I've had some hiccups with well known professionals who are well thought of by others - I won't say who and just put them down to me being unlucky as in the bigger scheme it was just a blip from all the positive comments for that professional by others.

I believe the 'going rate' for John's service is £150, SVTech I believe charge £360.

I fully agree with Stretto boy, yes you and others have used him without any issue, he has made mistakes in the OP's case, like we all do from time to time. I do in my line of work.
But I admit it, apologise and put things right, its not the fact that he made a mistake, its what happened afterwards that is the mark of a good company.

 

[Kingham]

@Kingham........

As regards your VIN plate, it should have been accompanied by the Alko one you sent him which supersedes the original VIN plate, and I take his 'comment' about this as his mentioning it more as a 'note to self' rather than chastising you after all he did apologise for this, but as you were already in the 'annoyed' frame of mind it appears you read it a different way.

As for not signing, it's easy when rushing to miss something, but he rectified it for you so all's well now I assume.

If you wanted to pay SVTech for their service at over twice the price then you could have done so, but surely these little hiccups were more than made up for with the money you've saved?

Not being an Engineer, or being aware of which plates supersede others, I gave John exactly what he asked for and to be honest, as I said at the beginning, cheap is not always best and yes, with the benefit of hindsight, I would happily pay more than twice the price for a first class, right first time, hassle free service.

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[Sue]

Up plated with John. I know he does have problems hearing on the phone, so conversations with him can be a little difficult. However he provided us with a good service at a good price.

 

[Minxy]

Minxy, I wasn't aware that John was a participant on here and therefore why would I inform him of my post.

He's not but you are making comments about him and others, based on these, are making even more comments which are less than pleasant IMV.

I am more than happy to cut & paste every email between John and myself, but not without his implicit consent

You are making comments about his service and quoting his emails to you already without his consent though ... so this doesn't make sense!

How would you like it if you had sent a business email to a customer who was disgruntled with you and then posted it on a forum for all to see, which then appeared to show you in a bad light? I don't think you would like it ... it is one thing to mention the content, but quite another to quote it without consent.

A truer picture of events, would also include the unanswered telephone calls and voicemails from me to both John's main number and also his NW office.

As mentioned before he works between 2 homes as well as offices so can't 'offer' the immediate response that SVTech for example do who are there all the time during the working week with several staff too, but you pay for that in the cost when you use them. If you had read the threads already on the forum you would know there can be a wait for John to respond, by phone or email, so it shouldn't have been a major surprise.

I, and a lot of others have benefited from John's services as have you ... you are aggrieved that you had some problems, nothing overly major, but they have 'got your goat' so you're not happy, I understand that, but condemning him based on just your experience is unfair IMV. I'm sure if you had told John that you had been 'aggrieved' by what had happened he would have been more than happy to apologise ... he simply may not have realised how it has affected you.

 

[Floydster]

Just to give a bit of balance to this, whilst we were away in March I filled out the online form for SV Tech and sent it off, got a reply to say it was blank and could I fill in another form (supplied by email) which I did.
This form was also blank so I took a photo of the completed form from my computer and sent them that.

After nearly a week I hadn't had a reply so I phoned them, got an apology for not getting back to me.
We then had a long conversation as to what could be done and how much it would cost, I said put it all in an email and i'll pay for it so it would be ready when we got home from our trip.

Gave up waiting for said email so I went to John Ruffles instead.
Never did hear from SV Tech.

I have used them in the past and was impressed with their service but not this time.

So all these companies have their moments.

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[icantremember]

there are many funsters who have used John without a problem.

I'm one of them and have to say the service and speed I recieved from John was brilliant and if necessary would have no hesitation in using him again.

 

[Vanman]

This isn't a court, no "right of reply " necessary. It's always the one disgruntled customer who makes a big deal of things, while the many happy ones appreciate what they got. Nobody is perfect, we all mess up the paperwork occasionally

 

[Kingham]

He's not but you are making comments about him and others, based on these, are making even more comments which are less than pleasant IMV.


You are making comments about his service and quoting his emails to you already without his consent though ... so this doesn't make sense!

How would you like it if you had sent a business email to a customer who was disgruntled with you and then posted it on a forum for all to see, which then appeared to show you in a bad light? I don't think you would like it ... it is one thing to mention the content, but quite another to quote it without consent.


As mentioned before he works between 2 homes as well as offices so can't 'offer' the immediate response that SVTech for example do who are there all the time during the working week with several staff too, but you pay for that in the cost when you use them. If you had read the threads already on the forum you would know there can be a wait for John to respond, by phone or email, so it shouldn't have been a major surprise.

I, and a lot of others have benefited from John's services as have you ... you are aggrieved that you had some problems, nothing overly major, but they have 'got your goat' so you're not happy, I understand that, but condemning him based on just your experience is unfair IMV. I'm sure if you had told John that you had been 'aggrieved' by what had happened he would have been more than happy to apologise ... he simply may not have realised how it has affected you.

Let's keep this in context, I've done nothing wrong here except alert others to a poor service that I have experienced, which many others have done in the past and I'm sure will continue to do. I have no control over what others write in response to the facts I have posted.

Just to reiterate, I emailed everything that JRC needed to confirm that my van could go to the weights I wanted.

JRC confirmed that the van was good to go to those weights and fees were paid for the job.

I return from holiday and find the weights were not what we had agreed.

JR blames me for this for 'obviously' not reading an email dated 3 days after he'd confirmed we were good to go, where he told me I needed air assistance, which he already knows I've got and I never received that email. I actually don't believe he sent it to me, I believe he got me mixed up with another customer.
The apology I received was not a true apology, but weighted against the fact that John had not seen the Al-Ko plate, which in the context and tone of his email, he considered was again my fault.

After I told him in my initial email that I had Al-Ko Air Tops fitted and asked what he needed from me, that was his cue to ask for the Al-Ko plate, but he didn't. He is the professional 'in the know', I'm not and I sent him exactly what he asked for.

I wasn't angry over the fact that he'd made a mistake, but by the fact that he was blaming me for it, for not reading an email correctly, when this was all down to him not reading his emails properly.

Knowing he'd made a mistake, compounded by or due to mixing me up with another customer, instead of double checking his corrective work before sending it out, he didn't do it properly, or check it and sent out an unsigned certificate ?

I'm relying on this professional doing his job properly for the next phase with DVLA and he simply didn't on this occasion. I'm sure he has done many of these successfully and believe me, I would have preferred it that way for me.

I don't agree that it's unfair of me to relate my poor experience of this company and would go so far as to say the opposite. If I and others have future knowledge of a poor service by any company and keep that information to ourselves, while others suffer similar fates, that would be unfair.

I'm sorry if my alerting fellow forum members of my experience has got under your skin, but if John gets the feedback, which I'm sure he will, he may learn from it and not leave future customers feeling the way I do.

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[Minxy]

To quote you "lets keep this in context" ... what's happened was not the end of the world, you had some hiccups, not major issues, and got what you wanted in the end although you have had to do more than most to get it.

As you suggested I too think John had mixed you up with another customer, possibly with a similar MH to you, and you are correct to be miffed, I would have been a bit put out too, but that's completely different from John being 'hung, drawn and quartered', not totally by you, but certainly others who have jumped on the band wagon to criticise his apparent lack of concern/customer service, if anything it's this that's irked me. I'm all for giving good and not so good feedback of companies/services etc but some of the comments by others on here are IMV over the top and could be downright damaging to him, which is extremely unfair when they have no personal experience themselves of his service.

I don't doubt what you have said is true, I never said it wasn't, but the problem is that when only excerpts from events are stated on a forum, as well as how the posts themselves are written, people can read them in many ways (same with emails sent and received) and no-one except the 2 people involved know what has happened.

Anyway, you've got what you wanted in the end, even though you have had to do a little bit more work for the 'privilege' of saving quite a bit of money, so now all you need is the DVLA to get their act together and you're sorted ... however you might end up starting up another thread about the DVLA if some of the problems others have had with them are anything to go by! I hope not though and it all gets processed quickly and correctly!

 

[sdc77]

IMV ...
the ops in his rights to post ...just as others have posted favourable comments.
Plenty of DVLA posts already ..
Seems to have become a bit 'personal' ..
Shame... as it's informative posts like this that allow people to make informed decisions.

 

[Minxy]

When I contacted the various places to find out if there was anyone else who could do this, all of the ones I spoke to recommended John as 'the man who can', so it appears there is a bit of a 'dearth' of people who actually are able to do it. If there was someone else and John 'farmed out' the work he'd still have to be responsible for their services so I'm not convinced it would actually save him that much work anyway.

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[Deleted member 29692]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The cheapest option is seldom the best option for anything ever.

If you pick based on nothing other than price what do you really expect?

 

[Minxy]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The cheapest option is seldom the best option for anything ever.

If you pick based on nothing other than price what do you really expect?

So on that principle do you overpay for everything?

 

[Deleted member 29692]

So on that principle do you overpay for everything?

I pay what I'm happy to pay.

When it's something where I get more than one quote i.e. insurance I'll look at levels of cover or whatever and then check out the various companies and their reputations for service. I can't remember the last time the cheapest quote was the one I went with.

When it's something where I don't feel the need for more than one quote then I'll go with someone I know and trust or someone with a good reputation or occasionally on recommendation. If that company isn't the cheapest option I don't care. I'm happy to pay more for decent service. I also don't have the time or interest to have to keep chasing people or breathe down their necks to make sure they're doing what they say they're going to do. If paying more lets me forget about it and go and do something else then I'll take that option every time.

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[John745]

I have used his services with no problem at all, perhaps his has a serious life event which has affected his concentration in these matters.

I can understand the frustration of not getting what one had paid for, but to err is human and the tract record of John so far has been very good.

How many of us have emailed and forgotten to attach a file (me many times in a rush).

An apology from John would help, but if he is in the middle of something that may also have been missed.

 

[androidGB]

I don't think you overpay when you obtain the service/product you expect. You can underpay when you choose to pay less and the service falls short of what you expect.

I paid SV Tech £312 and everything when like clockwork, had I paid half of this figure I may have expected a lesser service.

Going back to the OP, I think he did nothing wrong in Telling us of his experiences, and I think irrespective of what you pay, you can expect a supplier to admit their mistakes

Andrew