Underseat Lithium options

[jezport]

As my van is coming up to 6 years old I presume my 2 AGM batteries wont be long for this world.
So Im considering lithium. Ive got an EBL119 charger with no lithium profile and a 140w solar panel going into a Votronic MPPT Duo Regulator and solar display panel with lithium profiles. Ive a non smart alternator (2013 Euro5+)

Whats my simplest option for an underseat Lithium?
Do I need to fit a different charger or a B to B ?
I want to keep the option where the cab battery is also charged when on EHU and keep the install to a minimum.

Any suggestions and or advice would be appreciated.

 

[Itsmcb]

Roamer batteries make an underseat battery with an excellent specification.

 

[jezport]

Roamer batteries make an underseat battery with an excellent specification.

Based in Leeds, so may go over and see them.
The description says drop in lead acid replacement, however it then says ensure any chargers are compatible and configured correctly. So a bit confusing

 

[Itsmcb]

Based in Leeds, so may go over and see them.
The description says drop in lead acid replacement, however it then says ensure any chargers are compatible and configured correctly. So a bit confusing

Yes seems a bit of a minefield, lots of previous posts about charging on here.

 

[Lenny HB]

KS Energy also do undersea ones
Regardless of what suppliers say no such thing as a drop in replacement if you want to get the best out of them.

Your solar is OK and it's always advisable to fit a B2B, and if you use EHU well worth fitting a mains charger with a Lithium profile.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[jezport]

KS Energy also do undersea ones
Regardless of what suppliers say no such thing as a drop in replacement if you want to get the best out of them.

Your solar is OK and it's always advisable to fit a B2B, and if you use EHU well worth fitting a mains charger with a Lithium profile.

I want to keep the cab battery trickle charged also on EHU. so add 2 chargers and a B to B its starting to look complicated and expensive.

 

[gerry mcg]

jezport, are you still in a globecar? If so I have some recent experience on how i went about the upgrade to lithium that might be relevant.

It wasn't too hard once I figured it out ( with lots of questions being answered by Lenny HB, Raul, autorouter and others!)

I added a votronic vcc1212-50 B2B and a 15A victron Bluesmart charger that has a specific lithium charge profile when I changed to a ks-energy 200Ah underseat lithium battery in order to to it right.
Left the EBL119 in place and 240v powered but I removed the charger fuse to prevent charging on the EBL AGM or Gel profile

In addition, I added a victron smartbatterysenss to give battery temperature info that links to the victron charger and MPPT by BT VE.networking to make sure you don't charge the lithium below 0c

Cab battery is trickle charged via vanbitz battery Master

 

[Raul]

I could be wrong, but, KS Energy has low temp protection built in already.

 

[gerry mcg]

I could be wrong, but, KS Energy has low temp protection built in already.

It does, but advice was not to rely on (any) on board BMS as sole line of protection.
Adding the SBS allows me to set the MPPT and charger low temp cut off before the BMS ( I've set it at 5c cut off for a MPPT and charger)

 

[paddymcc]

I have the Roamer 230Ah underseat which has built in Bluetooth for battery monitoring. I also have the Votronic duo like you which charges the starter from solar. I added the Votronic B2B 50A like gerry mcg and have found that I haven't needed a charger with lithium profile for EHU as th solar and driving easily keep it topped up. I discussed it with Roamer and they said it was fine to occasionally us the EBL 101 to charge the battery and to leave it on the lead acid profile. I have done this once to see if it works ( it does) but have since pulled the 20A Landesgrat fuse on the EBL. This also means there is no risk of inadvertently trying to charge the battery when it is below freezing although it does have the BMS (Daly I think) to prevent this anyway. Because of the advice to leave the battery not fully charged (although this advice seems to relate only to storage) I have fitted a switch to interrupt the D+ to the B2B so I can turn it off easily when driving. Both the B2B and the solar controller have temp sensors fitted to the -ve terminal of the battery. The battery cost £970 which seems good value. Roamer are very helpful with enquiries.
If I decide I need a mains charger I will probably go for the 10A Victron like Gerry (the Votronic is a lot more expensive) but I see no need for it as yet. The Bluetooth on the battery works well although the range isn't great..

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lenny HB]

I want to keep the cab battery trickle charged also on EHU. so add 2 chargers and a B to B its starting to look complicated and expensive.

You have a Votronic duo solar controller that should keep the cab battery topped up I use one of them and never plug in at home.

 

[paddymcc]

You have a Votronic duo solar controller that should keep the cab battery topped up I use one of them and never plug in at home.

I agree, I somehow failed to answer that query in my reply! I never worry about to starter battery with the solar covering that. I guess jezport you may store yours inside so it could be a problem?

 

[Neilfg]

We put in Lithium May last year 2x 120Ah KS Energy, have not changed anything other than the setting on the solar, switched to lithium. Everything else, all CBE kit, left as it was for Gel. We did add a Victron Monitor as wanted to be able see power state at a glance.

Have had no problems, batteries charge well and even when driving, solar and ehu also work well. I have realised that I need more solar, part of that is because the battery bank has more capacity and I use more of it.

Weight saving and more useable capacity were my reasons for changing over.

I am sure that fitting some chargers with a lithium profile would help everything charge quicker. But at the moment everything is working very well.

 

[The Wino]

Just on our first trip after fitting a 110 ah ecotree. I was one of the winners of the draw for one at half price. I've just swapped it and set the solar to lithium and chrger to gel. I'm monitoring the solar by Bluetooth to get an idea of the state of charge but think I'm going to find a better battery monitor. I don't expect to fit a b2b or different charger unless it looks like it's needed.. I'm experimenting with the mains charger switched off to see how quickly the solar recchrges the battery ready for being off grid in the summer but it's really overcast today!

 

[Jev88]

I think it has probably been mentioned but a BatteryMaster will take surplus leisure battery charge and trickle to engine battery and just two easy wires.
Then you can fit a new charger for lithium and turn off the trip switch for the onboard charger?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[The Wino]

I think it has probably been mentioned but a BatteryMaster will take surplus leisure battery charge and trickle to engine battery and just two easy wires.
Then you can fit a new charger for lithium and turn off the trip switch for the onboard charger?

It would probably work fine but doesn't the battery master trickle charge the vehicle battery when there's more than a certain voltage difference aimed at two batteries of the same type?. And lithium prefer storage at less than full charge so best left off the charger over the winter. Could there be a problem with the battery master discharging the lithium to a low level.

 

[Landy Andy]

I’m glad some are willing to try just putting lithium in, rather than spending hundreds on what “they“ think is best for the system. Will be interesting to see how it performs.

 

[mitzimad]

just thought can litthium batterys be mounted on their side?

 

[The Wino]

just thought can litthium batterys be mounted on their side?

Ecotree say any orientation other than upside down.

 

[Jev88]

It would probably work fine but doesn't the battery master trickle charge the vehicle battery when there's more than a certain voltage difference aimed at two batteries of the same type?. And lithium prefer storage at less than full charge so best left off the charger over the winter. Could there be a problem with the battery master discharging the lithium to a low level.

As it is such a small current the BatteryMaster is only trickling down hill from leisure to engine like you say. To be absolutely sure call Vanbitz who sell their own one and they can advise but for this little low power widget I don't think anything matters other than 12V DC.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}