Wildbill
LIFE MEMBER
At a cider festival so plenty of folk’s around
WB
Two die in Campervan - New Forest.
- Thread starter DesmoDog
- Start date
WB
Awareness is great, but when the cause has been established - that is when to discuss it.
Relatives etc may be distressed by many things, but speculation can certainly be one. Best to wait for the facts to be public knowledge I feel.
Just my view, but based on experience.
Ours starts to beep intermittently (just in case we miss the flashing light thingy that also tells us the batteries are going). It has a test button to re-assure ourselves that it is working when it just sits there enigmatically and silently and handily (as it is a combined unit) goes off when we try to cook toast without the hab door being open . . . . Of course, it was not cheap but then I wouldn't want a £10 Chinese knock-off deciding whether we live or die . . .
pappajohn
LIFE MEMBER
Its called human nature
I have five points to make.
1. This a specialist forum for motorhomes so is unlikely to be seen by family and friends. It is normal for us to discuss relevant news articles.
2. There is a difference between speculation as accused, and conjecture, the latter being much more reasoned and based on knowledge of the subject at hand. We saw only conjecture in this thread, not speculation.
3. Every time there is an air or railway disaster, or even the recent Swiss club fire, all the specialist forums in those areas freely discuss possibilities based on conjecture and knowledge. All those forums express real sadness at the loss of life as well as putting up possible to explanations. There have been several occasions when such conjecture has helped the investigating authority to determine what happened.
4. After the recent Swiss fire, someone expressed surprise it was not under discussion here. I responded saying I had been discussing it at length on a different but more appropriate forum. Sadly again, it seems our conjecture was 100% accurate.
5. Any discussion that furthers and spreads the knowledge of high risk situations has to be positive as ultimately it will save lives. To put it another way, if there was an accident in motorhome where something was suspected to be wrong with the brakes under certain circumstances, would you want the alert and recall to go out straight away or to wait for the coroners report?
1. This a specialist forum for motorhomes so is unlikely to be seen by family and friends. It is normal for us to discuss relevant news articles.
2. There is a difference between speculation as accused, and conjecture, the latter being much more reasoned and based on knowledge of the subject at hand. We saw only conjecture in this thread, not speculation.
3. Every time there is an air or railway disaster, or even the recent Swiss club fire, all the specialist forums in those areas freely discuss possibilities based on conjecture and knowledge. All those forums express real sadness at the loss of life as well as putting up possible to explanations. There have been several occasions when such conjecture has helped the investigating authority to determine what happened.
4. After the recent Swiss fire, someone expressed surprise it was not under discussion here. I responded saying I had been discussing it at length on a different but more appropriate forum. Sadly again, it seems our conjecture was 100% accurate.
5. Any discussion that furthers and spreads the knowledge of high risk situations has to be positive as ultimately it will save lives. To put it another way, if there was an accident in motorhome where something was suspected to be wrong with the brakes under certain circumstances, would you want the alert and recall to go out straight away or to wait for the coroners report?
But surely it's just human nature, and as said previously, there haven't been any derogatory or disrespectful posts whilst speculating?
- Jan 28, 2008
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im not sure where it was confirmed as co poisoning or have i missed something?
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See post #20 where confirmed by ChrisL
It was reported in a National newspaper the same day I posted it.
Children orphaned after parents found dead in campervan
Kayleigh and Christopher Coll, 38 and 45, were killed by carbon monoxide poisoning at the New Forest Cider Festival on October 12, an inquest at Winchester Coroner's Court has ruled.
Minxy
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I disagree, it's best to be aware of the (sensible) possible causes so others can decide whether to take any safety measures themselves. Being an ostrich until the actual cause is confirmed could lead to more deaths.
I doubt whether they were members of this forum, nor would their relatives be, so how would they be distressed by our talking about it? Should we not discuss anything at all in case there's a miniscule chance that a relative, friend etc may read the comments? MH fun is a well renowned forum but I don't think it is in the same league as a major news outlet.
We're talking about a MH forum, not a national news website etc making headlines, 2 very different things.
CAB96
LIFE MEMBER
A timely reminder.
I find after Christmas / New Year a good time to check all alarms and replace batteries. Just checked our house alarms, and replaced the van smoke and CO batteries.
I find after Christmas / New Year a good time to check all alarms and replace batteries. Just checked our house alarms, and replaced the van smoke and CO batteries.
47 years ago,living in an astral trailer,the little ones were asleep in the end bedroom,i was asleep in living area,woke upand couldnt raise my head off the pillow,i have never felt so ill in all my life,luckily the little ones bedroom door was shut,and a window cracked open,alldoors were opened and windows …l.it was the gas fridge,there was a smoky haze that had coated the ceiling and my nostrils were grey,apparently we were very lucky,it was long before monoxide alarms,it was silent and we couldnt smell anything but the slight coating of nostrils was weird…….im obsessive now ,and wary of gas fridges,and having ventilation etc.
DBK
LIFE MEMBER
Gosh, a very close shave. I can understand your subsequent concern about gas appliances.
We have always slept, and still do with a window cracked open be it in the van (when we had it), at home or any digs we may be in.
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Wildbill
LIFE MEMBER
We have two carbon monoxide detectors and the batteries are changed every year at different times..
No1 is done longest day no 2 is done on the shortest day that way the battery hopefully are at Different charge levels and are changed yearly
When we got this van ther had never been a carbon monoxide detector in this van
First thing I got and I put good quality batteries in them firs on the longest day of summer one set of batteries Will be changed
WB
No1 is done longest day no 2 is done on the shortest day that way the battery hopefully are at Different charge levels and are changed yearly
When we got this van ther had never been a carbon monoxide detector in this van
First thing I got and I put good quality batteries in them firs on the longest day of summer one set of batteries Will be changed
WB
Wildbill
LIFE MEMBER
Change battery every year for the price of them
WB
Some manufacturers deliberately leave the rubber seal out from one or more skylights. This is part of the fixed ventilation. Sometimes I read of people complaining about this and buying a seal to stop the ventilation. Please don’t.
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We're descending to lowest common denominator... Yes it must be safer to have permanent ventilation... but
Many of the "rules" and equipment were designed for towed caravans, and for summer-only vehicles.
Would we still apply them to a gasless van intended for ski-seasons?
- We're in danger of imposing a standard answer of "crank-up the heating" and damn the fossil fuel waste.
- but I'm in admiration of WildBill on his systematic alarm maintenance.
Many of the "rules" and equipment were designed for towed caravans, and for summer-only vehicles.
Would we still apply them to a gasless van intended for ski-seasons?
- We're in danger of imposing a standard answer of "crank-up the heating" and damn the fossil fuel waste.
- but I'm in admiration of WildBill on his systematic alarm maintenance.
Winter usage makes proper ventilation even more important than summer use. I understand why some think it's a good idea to block the permantent vents in winter to reduce drafts or reduce heat loss, but what you really should be looking at instead of the exhausts is the intake. Ensure proper mixing with warm air right there at the source, this will improve circulation and humidity control and reduce drafts at the same time. The way some people just try and block everything just means they have no control of which little cracks the air comes and goes through and is asking for trouble with moisture and drafts. Air carries surprisingly little energy compared to how cold/warm it can feel - exchanging 15 cubic meters of air / hour is only about 200W heating power needed with +20c inside and -20c outside. At 80% outdoor RH and 50% indoor RH this will also remove over 100 grams of water vapour from the van each hour. So with very little heating you remove a lot of moisture, you just need to design the air flow in the van so that you have that 200W where it counts - air comes in through a convector or next to a hot air duct and so on.
At what point should a fridge be replaced? My 3-way Fridge is currently 17 years old.
I think very old gas fridges also have a rather dangerous gas in them that can leak but does have a nasty stink….. not monoxide but ammonia smelling ,if i was you derp id get it serviced and make sure your monoxide detecter is working,
at least you have been made aware of the hidden danger eh?
at least you have been made aware of the hidden danger eh?RetiredPope
LIFE MEMBER
The other think to check with CO monitors is the expiry date. They only last so long, so check date on label when changing/checking batteries.
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I think very old gas fridges also have a rather dangerous gas in them that can leak but does have a nasty stink….. not monoxide but ammonia smelling ,if i was you derp id get it serviced and make sure your monoxide detecter is working,
If you mean F gas, they are been outlawed due to environmental effects.
If unburnt gas leaks, it's heavier than air and will dissipate through drop vents - unless they have been blocked!!!
Burnt gas produces carbon monoxide, which is lighter than air, hence the vents in roof vents, and why alarms should be placed just down from the ceiling.
Ovens and heaters usually dissipate the CO throgh a flue, however hobs just dissipate into the van, this also produces moisture, so a roof fan, hob extractor or open window is advisable.
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I think with most things there's a balance. In this case there was a balance between speculation upsetting relatives ( to be fair speculation of carbon monoxide poisoning was a lot less upsetting than speculation on things like the victims taking their own lives) and the possibility of alerting others who could suffer a similar fate to buy a CO alarm. In cases where criminal prosecution is possible I think people are right to be reluctant to speculate. In this case if there was the possibility of a business who recently fitted some equipment being linked I think it would be very unfair to speculate on liability. In a case where it might save another life I see nothing wrong with saying it could be CO make sure you have an alarm
scotjimland
LIFE MEMBER
Your fridge should be totally sealed around the sides to stop any gasses escaping into the habitation area.. the floor under the fridge should have a vent to allow gas to escape , be it .. LPG , CO, or Ammonia (refrigerant) .. the flue must also be checked for proper operation ..
Personally I would have it serviced and checked for leaks annually .. renewal when it stops working .. or you want an upgrade ..
I found the old style fridges with manual operation far more reliable than the new fangled 'all singing dancing' electronic ones.. so wouldn't rush to upgrade..
As far as I am aware, (happy to be corrected) Ammonia refrigerant has not been banned but it is classified as toxic and requires careful handling. Safety measures must be in place, ie ventilation to atmosphere and sealing from habitation area should be checked !!
A CO monitor will not detect ammonia..
Personally I would have it serviced and checked for leaks annually .. renewal when it stops working .. or you want an upgrade ..
I found the old style fridges with manual operation far more reliable than the new fangled 'all singing dancing' electronic ones.. so wouldn't rush to upgrade..
As far as I am aware, (happy to be corrected) Ammonia refrigerant has not been banned but it is classified as toxic and requires careful handling. Safety measures must be in place, ie ventilation to atmosphere and sealing from habitation area should be checked !!
A CO monitor will not detect ammonia..
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BikerGraham
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Correct ammonia not banned and still in common use as a refrigerant.
My relatively new fridge freezer at home has it in. Majority of industrial refrigeration systems in industry ( food industry with blast freezers etc) use ammonia. Some all the way round the system some via heat exchangers with glycol based systems where it goes into the occupied areas of the factories.
Good thing is that ammonia has a very distinctive odour at low concentrations. Long before it becomes a health issue. Just as well as it’s also a flammable gas. But a difficult to ignite flammable gas usually.
A properly burning fridge, hob or oven should not produce any CO. It is when things go wrong that CO is produced instead of CO2, in particular if the appliance is not getting enough oxygen. That is when you need a CO alarm to warn you.
I seem to have been unlucky with motorhome/caravan fridges 
,recently 5 years ago)we bought a little old 1992 caravan from scottish highlands , on the way back we camped at moffat,and had to sleep in the back of the van cos of the eyewatering gasses leaking from the old fridge what a stink,serves me right for buying unseen lol
,recently 5 years ago)we bought a little old 1992 caravan from scottish highlands , on the way back we camped at moffat,and had to sleep in the back of the van cos of the eyewatering gasses leaking from the old fridge what a stink,serves me right for buying unseen lolJoin us or log in to post a reply.
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