Twin Rear Wheel Ducato Conversion Kit? (1 Viewer)

[Ian Morley]

Hi all,

My name's Ian and I've been addicted to my motorhome for almost five years now.

I have a problem which must be a common one? Rear weight. My solution might be a bit whacky or controversial but I can't believe that I can't find a kit out there that allows me to do this so I am hoping that somebody else might have looked into it and maybe found some information that I haven't come across yet? Or even a supplier...

We have a 2007 coachbuilt Bessacar E445 on a Fiat Ducato single rear axle chassis with quite a large rear overhang. I don't believe that I am carrying enough gear to be taking liberties but the rear tyres do like they're under some strain, possibly because the rear overhang is so big. I try to keep anything of any weight towards the front of the vehicle when we are driving whenever possible, but sports gear and clothes is all we ever take, and we spend a lot of money on lighter weight gear to help with this weight issue. To put my experiences with vehicle weight into context I am a tradesman and my work van is absolutely fully loaded with tools and materials at all times but the tyres rarely look like they've got too much weight above them, whereas the motorhome seems to look like they just don't have enough air in them despite being inflated to almost the maximum 60psi that the tyre walls state they can be inflated to. We have taken our motorhome all over Europe in all different seasons, mainly heading to the Alps or Scotland's highlands for the snowboarding and mountain biking and we have never struggled getting up or down any mountain passes so I feel I must not be carrying *too much* weight otherwise I am sure I would have struggled with some of these trips.

My want, is to either find a kit or have one fabricated that allows me to have double wheels on the single rear axle, something you regularly see on Iveco and Transit work vans and pickups but not something I can find any information about for a Ducato when searching Google. I would need to have the rear wheel arches altered but that is no problem, there is a company 25 minutes away that can mould new arches for me. Getting ANY information on double rear wheels for a Ducato is where I am really at my whits end!

I have just ordered 2tonne commercial weight tyres for the rear and I'm hoping that this will make a difference but I'm really keen to bring my double rear wheel plan to fruition anyway as I have convinced myself that it will look and feel much better and will stop me from constantly worrying about it. I had my first ever blow out in any vehicle just a couple of weeks ago on an incredibly hot day at about 65mph and this, along with the humongous tyre egg a fortnight beforehand is what has caused my newfound constant weight worry.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can give me any constructive replies with this.

 

[Clarky]

Sounds to me that you are running with the wrong tyres and wrong pressure.
Have you put the fully loaded van on a weigh bridge?
Get an accurate weight for each axle then check the correct tyre pressure with the manufacturer.

Richard.

 

[funflair]

I would take the van to a weigh bridge and make sure that firstly the rear axle is not overloaded and then secondly that you have the correct tyres fitted and inflated to the correct pressure, I would then totally forget anything to do with adding more wheels to the rear axle

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[Ian Morley]

Sounds to me that you are running with the wrong tyres and wrong pressure.
Have you put the fully loaded van on a weigh bridge?
Get an accurate weight for each axle then check the correct tyre pressure with the manufacturer.

Richard.

Thanks for your reply Richard. I don't really dare put it on a weight bridge because I don't really want the bad news. I have already ordered and I am imminently having the highest weight load tyres that I can get (2tonnes per tyre) fitted to the rear, but I am still keen to pursue the double rear wheel idea so I would be really keen on learning anything that anyone might have for me regarding having double rear wheels on a single axle.

 

[Mikeco]

The maximum pressure stated on the tyres can be ignored in the UK, if you change to steel valves you can go above 60 and some vans run on 80 psi. I have 65 psi in my rear Boxer tyres.

 

[Ian Morley]

I would take the van to a weigh bridge and make sure that firstly the rear axle is not overloaded and then secondly that you have the correct tyres fitted and inflated to the correct pressure, I would then totally forget anything to do with adding more wheels to the rear axle

Sorry guys, just for the record, I carry what we NEED for our trips. Without what we carry our trips would be pointless. We don't carry an awful lot of stuff though, and the vehicle handles very well, feels exactly the same to drive when it is 'empty', and the rear tyres look exactly the same with or without our gear in. I'm well aware that single axle motorhomes when empty are close to maximum weight capacity so when you put water in and bikes on etc you're going to be overloaded pretty quickly. My doubling up of rear wheels is a thing I am wanting to pursue regardless of thoughts on tyres and current weight. I've been driving it (successfully ) for almost five years, but always felt the weight on the single rear wheels has been it's only downfall, so respectfully, I am keen to learn anything about this and not tyre info, as I have already got the highest weight commercial tyres on the way to the garage I use as I type this.

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[Ian Morley]

The maximum pressure stated on the tyres can be ignored in the UK, if you change to steel valves you can go above 60 and some vans run on 80 psi. I have 65 psi in my rear Boxer tyres.

This is pretty interesting to read, thankyou. I had a blowout (my first one ever) just a fortnight ago in very hot weather and I am concerned that this was due to me running at about 55psi when the tyre wall states maximum of 60, so I'll still continue to worry about this I think. I will seek a bit of advice on this though, thank you, as I thought I already knew what I needed to know about pressures.

 

[Mikeco]

If you try and inflate the tyres to a more suitable pressure your problem may well go away.

 

[pappajohn]

Even if you find a solution you would need an engineers report to say the conversion is safe..... And your insurers may not be too happy.
The tyre marking for pressure is for the American Market and doesn't apply in Europe.
You don't want to weigh it as you may not like the results..... You'll like the rusult less if VOSA stop and weigh you at the roadside. Worst you could expect is a fine and vehicle impounded... Least would be told to dump stuff until its at the correct weight.....and they won't look after the stuff you dump

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[SandraL]

Not what you want to hear but I think you must start with some facts. The first is what is the actual axle loads front and rear. You need to visit a weighbridge.
The ducato base was only sold as a front wheel drive van. So finding a "standard" twin rear axle will not happen.
For dvla to agree to an upgraded axle weight you need an engineers report.
The have an approved list so you cant use just any engineer.
SV tech are one such firm.
Usual method of raising rear axle loading is to fit airbags and 121 rated tyres, on maxi chassis.
You do not say what your current max axle weights are, info on the vin plate.

 

[dunnah01]

It may be worth a call to somewhere like arrowcraft products in the USA to see if they ever did a dually conversion kit for the RAM ProMaster. Not sure if the wheel/tyre is the weak point in the axle though so it would be more of an aesthetic conversion and no weight upgrade would be possible.

 

[BDM]

for almost five years, but always felt the weight on the single rear wheels has been it's only downfall, so respectfully, I am keen to learn anything about this

If you really want to learn, go to a weighbridge, as plenty here are advising.
In my opinion you should have had it weighed when you first bought and loaded it.

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[Clarky]

One extra bit of advice!
Please take note of what pappajohn said. Where I live in Suffolk (and almost certainly in other police forces) there is a section who specialise in dealing with overweight and badly loaded vans and trucks. They carry scales and will detain vehicles that have issues with overweight. One way they seem to spot likely vehicles is by looking at the tyres as they cruise past.
Going by their social media posts they are very busy and catch a lot of problem vehicles.
Take care.

Richard.

 

[Lenny HB]

I don't really dare put it on a weight bridge because I don't really want the bad news

That is a really bad irresponsible atiude, you really do need to get the axles weighed. It's the only way you can safely determine the maximum load and suitable tyres.

I'm well aware that single axle motorhomes when empty are close to maximum weight capacity so when you put water in and bikes on etc you're going to be overloaded pretty quickly.

Not necessarily our van is a Ducato with a single rear axle our garage is full to the brim. We carry 2 e-bikes, spare wheel, twin tub washing machine, awning mat, spare cassette, paddleboard, table chairs, clothes airer, tools and loads of other junk. We still have about 300kg spare on the rear axle.

 

[gus-lopez]

Just find a scrap ducato of the correct year that has double rear wheels & strip the complete axle ,wheels , springs & spring hangers out.

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[Otter Spotter]

Sorry guys, just for the record, I carry what we NEED for our trips. Without what we carry our trips would be pointless. We don't carry an awful lot of stuff though, and the vehicle handles very well, feels exactly the same to drive when it is 'empty', and the rear tyres look exactly the same with or without our gear in. I'm well aware that single axle motorhomes when empty are close to maximum weight capacity so when you put water in and bikes on etc you're going to be overloaded pretty quickly. My doubling up of rear wheels is a thing I am wanting to pursue regardless of thoughts on tyres and current weight. I've been driving it (successfully ) for almost five years, but always felt the weight on the single rear wheels has been it's only downfall, so respectfully, I am keen to learn anything about this and not tyre info, as I have already got the highest weight commercial tyres on the way to the garage I use as I type this.

Seems from your posts that you haven’t considered the all weight of the van with all your bits in it, you could be illegally overweight, hence you really should get it on a weighbridge soon. Re, getting a 2nd exle and wheels, the will not be a kit and you woukd need to do a lot of cut and fabricate on the floor pan and side panels of van.
I suggest you get it weighed and then decide whether you need to rationalise your essentials.

 

[Lenny HB]

Probably the best solution would be to change the van for one with a decent payload.
No way fitting double rear wheels would be practical, not only would the vans floor need extensive modifications also all the internal cabinet work in the area.

 

[pappajohn]

Just find a scrap ducato of the correct year that has double rear wheels & strip the complete axle ,wheels , springs & spring hangers out.

Do Fiat make a twin wheel ducato?
Don't think I've ever seen one.

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[Lenny HB]

Do Fiat make a twin wheel ducato?
Don't think I've ever seen one.

Me thinks you is right, not seen any & can't find any.

 

[stevewagner]

Even if you could add an extra pair of wheels it would make your motorhome heavier and your payload even less.

 

[tacr2man]

Vehicles that have twin rear wheels usually have a different hub assy , you cant just bolt duals onto a single hub . HTSH

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[tonyidle]

A twin wheels conversion to an existing axle would be close to impossible. Apart from clearence considerations as mentioned by Lenny HB twin wheel systems employ entirely different hubs and wheel studs/nuts or bolts. The wheels themselves are deeply dished so when fitted back-to-back the tyres are clear of each other. The hub and wheel design ensures that the load is centrally over the wheel bearings. As suggested the only possible option would be to fit a complete rear axle but I don't think the Ducato was ever offered with twin wheels.

 

[Lenny HB]

Deleted, I was talking bollocks.

 

[jezport]

Twin wheeled axles are RWD so its a no go.
They would increase your weight, a no go
They would stick out unless you shortened the axle, a no go
You wouldnt get insurance, a no go.
Put the correct camping tyres on they have more belting and are a stiffer construction and then you can go up to 80psi.

First thing, get it weighed!

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[Emmit]

The OP has had four posts.
His Avatar has him in Green

If he's reading this, he should realise that he has only ONE!!! more post before he will not be allowed any more unless he pays Subs.

He should realise that he has been given some really good advice/info.
It might not be what he wanted to read but it remains the best advice that his money has not bought, (yet)

Just imagine how much more good advice he would get if he paid that miserly £15.

PS.
What tyres have a load of 2 tonnes that would fit a Bessy 400 series (unless he's talking of a pair)

 

[stevewagner]

The OP has had four posts.
His Avatar has him in Green

If he's reading this, he should realise that he has only ONE!!! more post before he will not be allowed any more unless he pays Subs.

He should realise that he has been given some really good advice/info.
It might not be what he wanted to read but it remains the best advice that his money has not bought, (yet)

Just imagine how much more good advice he would get if he paid that miserly £15.

PS.
What tyres have a load of 2 tonnes that would fit a Bessy 400 series (unless he's talking of a pair)

You don't get nothing for a pair - not in this game!

 

[pagey]

this has got to be a wind up

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[dunnah01]

Deleted, I was talking bollocks.

So why delete this time - only kidding

 

[AgeingAndrew]

this has got to be a wind up

I have to admit I checked it wasn't April 1st. Maybe it's 596 with a new identity ??

 

[Badknee]

Give up guys, he’s not willing to listen.