Transit wheelspin-is it just us?

[DrDeath]

We acquired our virtually new transit based Bailey Adamo this time last year. We have spent about 20 weeks in it since including ten in France and Spain.
It’s a 160hp van and travels effortlessly on motorways and A roads BUT any attempt to get tasty at roundabouts or lights and the front wheels light up!!
Also very poor on wet campsites!
The question I ask is in essence, is there something wrong with the Ford chassis or something wrong with the Bailey weight distribution? Or nothing wrong at all??
It’s the only motorhome we’ve driven!
Many thanks for your input

 

[DBK]

What tyres does it have and what pressure are they at?

 

[peterc10]

They are based on a commercial chassis. They are not built for getting tasty. Slow down and enjoy the scenery.

 

[mitzimad]

are they vanco tyres?

 

[jockaneezer]

I couldn't get out of a steep tee junction in France due to Vanco tyres and also had to get towed off three grass pitches on consecutive campsites during an autumnal stay in Wales. Switched to Toyo winter tyres and never struggled again, apart from that time at Chester when I forgot to let the handbrake off !

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[Verteuil Man]

The 3 things you need is good rubber, a traction control button (Ducato) and a sensitive right foot.

You could also try starting off in 2nd gear if you suspect an issue.

 

[gus-lopez]

BUT any attempt to get tasty at roundabouts or lights and the front wheels light up!!

I have a 2007 pvc with fwd. mines only 115hp. I also have Esp stability control along with traction but even here on bone dry roads under normal acceleration(for me) results in wheel spin/attempted. Previous rear wheel fully loaded commercial vans that i used to have would not even look at grass, let alone wet. they would have to be pulled off

 

[Gina M]

Many years ago, we had our first 4-wheel drive Mitsubishi Shogun. We got stuck on a muddy field at Chatsworth House and were the laughingstock of everyone around us

 

[pappajohn]

The vans loaded to its limit.....the same make/model chassis works van rarely, if ever, is so the front axle will be a bit light allowing loss of traction.
All front wheel drive vans will do it to a degree.

 

[VXman]

Too much power! Had this conversation on another thread recently about whether 130bhp was enough. I have 140 and when it is fully loaded with a lot of stuff in the garage front grip is limited. Not an issue most of the time but a spitred take off will have the front wheels scrabbling. On some steep hairpins in the alps it struggled and I have had instances of difficulty when doing a steep hill start.

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[DrDeath]

Thanks chaps!
Factory fitted michelin agilis on 16 inch alloy rims, on recommended pressures 58 and 64 from memory
Fully automatic six speed box so second gear starts not really an option
Issue first noted when collecting (empty) van on a damp day
Really have to feather it away if damp or uphill
Utterly hopeless on wet grass
Otherwise, lovely van

 

[DrDeath]

Thanks VXman, messages crossed
This may well be the reason sadly
I was sort of hoping for a fault I could address rather than “it’s a bit rubbish “

 

[Landy Andy]

Changing across to quality non camping tyres, and better weight distribution. That is what sorted the traction issues on our van. I first went for new camper tyres which was an improvement over the old (hardened) tyres, but then swapped to winter tyres, and this made a massive improvement. Also keep weight as far forward as possible, as keeping the garage full will have a big effect on a long van.

 

[Reallyretired]

My transit does the same. Coming from RWD Mercedes I have to go gently pulling away at roundabouts or wheel spin is inevitable.

 

[poppycamper]

My considerations for a moho was not layout or pay load etc.. but was RWD.
It all depends on your style of camping...hardstanding etc you should be fine with FWD, however 90% of our trips are on rally fields or THS's or CL's/CS's so for me RWD is a must.
As an ex4X4 tugger I can not remember how many FWD mohos I have pulled off fields... sometimes dryish fields.
Can't however remember ever saving a RWD one though.

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[busbuddy]

Changing across to quality non camping tyres, and better weight distribution.

What he said

I've camped a lot on grass all year round and if it's really wet when I get there I park on bits of wood because the van can sink over a couple of days and getting out of those ruts is the worst bit.
I've been camped next to Van's that 'should' weigh less than mine but when they go they can leave big indentations where the back wheels were because they are well overweight on the rear.
I cant pull off fast from junctions or the boss will wake up

 

[dunnah01]

Thanks chaps!
Factory fitted michelin agilis on 16 inch alloy rims, on recommended pressures 58 and 64 from memory

Interesting - Michelin have always said 80psi (65psi front if pushed ) for their Agilis. Won't help with grip but will help a lot with comfort if others can drop pressures to the Bailey recommended pressures.

 

[jezport]

Poor weight distribution combined with commercial suspension, a high centre of gravity, and possibly tyres or tyre pressures.
Our 2016 fiat ducato was massively improved with full air suspension but it was very expensive. The ducato is lower to the ground to start with.

 

[Deno]

Thanks chaps!
Factory fitted michelin agilis on 16 inch alloy rims, on recommended pressures 58 and 64 from memory
Fully automatic six speed box so second gear starts not really an option
Issue first noted when collecting (empty) van on a damp day
Really have to feather it away if damp or uphill
Utterly hopeless on wet grass
Otherwise, lovely van

Have you tried using the "ECO" button on the dash - this effectively reduces the revs and elongates the gear changes. I used to use it most of the time on my Chausson and found it a more pleasant way of driving. Still useless on wet grass though so always needed to be careful.
I changed tyres to Grabber AT's and the difference was night and day, they were terrific, a little softer on the ride with great handling and very good on wet grass as you'd expect.

 

[Guigsy]

I had Michelin Agilis Campers on my van. I literally had it wheel spin trying to mount a completely dry kerb. In the wet, they were terrible for understeer and wheel spin at even leisurely pace on damp and greasy roundabouts. It should not be possible to spin up in 2nd gear! Damp grass was Bambi on ice. I switched to Continental VanCo 4Season. Not only are they far more supple, but they have far better grip. I have to be pretty unkind to the clutch to get it to slip now.

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[EuroTrotters]

All-season or winter tyres. But not Michelin cross climates.

 

[poppycamper]

But not Michelin cross climates.

Why not?

 

[EuroTrotters]

Why not?

Because my experience of cross climates is not good. The don’t like wet tarmac, useless on ice, sidewalks crack and the only benefit is that they are slightly better in snow than standard summer tyres.

 

[poppycamper]

Because my experience of cross climates is not good. The don’t like wet tarmac, useless on ice, sidewalks crack and the only benefit is that they are slightly better in snow than standard summer tyres.

That's strange.... my experience of Michelin Aguilas Cross Climates over the last 5yrs is the exact opposite I I consider them to be an excellent tyre.
As I say 5yrs and no side wall cracking..
Indeed very strange.

 

[Pausim]

My considerations for a moho was not layout or pay load etc.. but was RWD.
It all depends on your style of camping...hardstanding etc you should be fine with FWD, however 90% of our trips are on rally fields or THS's or CL's/CS's so for me RWD is a must.
As an ex4X4 tugger I can not remember how many FWD mohos I have pulled off fields... sometimes dryish fields.
Can't however remember ever saving a RWD one though.

My RWD Mercedes Hymer was worse on wet grass than my FWD Fiat Carthago. The Fiat traction control helps but also the Carthago has better weight distribution and sensible tyre pressures. The large range of underfloor lockers between the axles means heavy stuff like tool boxes and Quest Screen House can go well forward. Both vehicles have Michelin Camper tyres but Hymer used Michelin’s rock hard default tyre pressures. Carthago give significantly lower tyre pressures for the Michelins and this makes for better grip and a far more comfortable ride. I have only needed towing off wet grass once and that was the RWD Hymer, so far no problems (3 years) with the FWD Carthago.

With motorhomes both axles are heavily laden to similar levels and I don’t see that FWD or RWD makes a lot of difference. As long as you keep the steering straight why is RWD seen as better?

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[poppycamper]

IMO all to do with load distribution...
You lucky having under floor lockers towards front therefore weight on front tyres... however a lot of motorhome do not have that and most weight is on the back wheels. garage loaded, bike racks etc so most weight at rear and less weight on front driving wheels.

With motorhomes both axles are heavily laden to similar levels and I don’t see that FWD or RWD makes a lot of difference. As long as you keep the steering straight why is RWD seen as better?

 

[VXman]

With motorhomes both axles are heavily laden to similar levels and I don’t see that FWD or RWD makes a lot of difference. As long as you keep the steering straight why is RWD seen as better?

Motor Vehicles have better grip being pushed rather than pulled. Watch some British Touring Car racing. The BMW rear drive cars always beat the FWD cars off the start line. FWD better pulling the car out of the corners. Too much power on the RWD at that point will cause them to oversteer and possibly spin out. I know it's not motorhomes but the physics is the same.

 

[EuroTrotters]

My RWD Mercedes Hymer was worse on wet grass than my FWD Fiat Carthago. The Fiat traction control helps but also the Carthago has better weight distribution and sensible tyre pressures. The large range of underfloor lockers between the axles means heavy stuff like tool boxes and Quest Screen House can go well forward. Both vehicles have Michelin Camper tyres but Hymer used Michelin’s rock hard default tyre pressures. Carthago give significantly lower tyre pressures for the Michelins and this makes for better grip and a far more comfortable ride. I have only needed towing off wet grass once and that was the RWD Hymer, so far no problems (3 years) with the FWD Carthago.

With motorhomes both axles are heavily laden to similar levels and I don’t see that FWD or RWD makes a lot of difference. As long as you keep the steering straight why is RWD seen as better?

I have run my own small fleets. Including sprinters and original FWD Mercedes Vitos. The sprinters when loaded up Would go anywhere, even deep snow.

The Vitos when delivered on factory fit tyres, would literally slide down the hill from our car park.

So when we bought a motorhome, I decided it had to be RWD sprinters.

Two were twin rear wheel and one was single rear wheel drive. Excellent grip and the first one, 416cdi chassis would drive through deep snow with ease. Always preferred propulsion over traction.

I was worried when we bought our current, older Fiat Hymer. After towing my brothers Fiat off wet grass in France and seeing lots of others getting stuck.

But this Hymer we have is fairly heavy over the front axle. Water tank, diesel tank, batteries, gas bottle along with driver and passenger over the front axle. Engine and gearbox too !. Makes for great traction.

It’s not just about driving wheels. I’ve driven up a steep hill in an Audi A2 FWD with winter tyres in snow. The same hill an AWD BMW X3 couldn’t.

I had to visit Someone up on a very steep Hill up to a farm in Derbyshire. They told me not to come as they could not get their AWD Volvo XC60 up and had to walk. I got up to the farm in our Toyota Previa, mid engine RWD with winter tyres. Same place, my sprinter van (not motorhome) drive up with ease.

My Range Rover isn’t great on all-season tyres !

 

[Guigsy]

I cycle quite a bit on a mountain bike and a gravel bike. I like to play with tyre pressures and I have a stack of different tyres of various widths and treads. What I've learnt is that it's not always intuitive as to how well something will perform.

There's a muddy track I frequently traverse. A couple of weeks ago I accidentally went up it with my skinner more road orientated tyres on. I was expecting it to be a mistake. Instead it cut though the slop and I had plenty of traction. But I know if it gets a bit drier, my wider tyres with low pressure are better because it'll sit on the surface and not sink in.

I use a bridleway with a really steep grassy hill downhill. One set of tyres is great for descending at speed, loads of confidence. But in the wet, as soon as I lock the rear, it'll whip around and I'll be going sideways with the rear trying to overtake the front. The grip is all or nothing.

Basically, poor traction conditions can be unpredictable as to what works well.

 

[Pausim]

Motor Vehicles have better grip being pushed rather than pulled. Watch some British Touring Car racing. The BMW rear drive cars always beat the FWD cars off the start line. FWD better pulling the car out of the corners. Too much power on the RWD at that point will cause them to oversteer and possibly spin out. I know it's not motorhomes but the physics is the same.

I can see that throwing the weight backwards gives RWD better grip when accelerating on track or road. What I can’t see is that there is any great difference when pulling away gently on wet grass in straight line, which is what matters in a motorhome.