Towing a car abroad.

[Golden Graham !]

I had a Towbars2towcars system on a previous van. I loved it, but never went abroad with it. Although it's inherently safer than a car on top of a trailer, I hear it's still frowned upon by some countries, and I do intend going abroad in the future. I really don't have room for a trailer as well as the vehicles on my drive.
So I'm currently trying to decide which way to jump. Toad car, or trailored car. Can anyone help me decide ?

 

[Geo]

If you have no room for a trailer.
You are not going to have a car abroad.
Suggest search forum for A frames with a big bag of popcorn

 

[Realist]

Trailer France and Spain tend to pull and fine cars on A Frames.

Better to be safe than sorry, owe and wait for the Frame Police to show up.

 

[Boris7]

I had a Towbars2towcars system on a previous van. I loved it, but never went abroad with it. Although it's inherently safer than a car on top of a trailer, I hear it's still frowned upon by some countries, and I do intend going abroad in the future. I really don't have room for a trailer as well as the vehicles on my drive.
So I'm currently trying to decide which way to jump. Toad car, or trailored car. Can anyone help me decide ?

Not sure why you feel a trailer is less safe, but I fear that’s what you’ll need.

 

[Richard n Ann]

The weather is ideal for a Scooter in Southern France and Spain

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[Golden Graham !]

Maybe. It's more a problem of small scooters versus fat people ?

 

[Golden Graham !]

Not sure why you feel a trailer is less safe, but I fear that’s what you’ll need.

Trailer has ;- higher c/g., less tyres on road, if one blows!, far more tow ball load, longer to load and unload, more space required at home, extra space required on site, more maintenance, tyres craze prematurely.
But trailers are cheaper, and foreigners like them for some reason ?

 

[Boris7]

My Brian James trailer has 4 wheels and never had a tyre issue, on site just park on trailer (rear stands) loading takes 5 minutes.

your right about space at home mind.

Biggest issue is theft, so I’ve put 2 electric hoist in the barn, when not using it I hoist it up into the apex and park the MH under it.

 

[pappajohn]

less tyres on road, if one blows!

I wouldn't have any kind of trailer with a single axle for that very reason.
Even my 750kg box trailer is twin axle.

 

[Golden Graham !]

My Brian James trailer has 4 wheels and never had a tyre issue, on site just park on trailer (rear stands) loading takes 5 minutes.

your right about space at home mind.

Biggest issue is theft, so I’ve put 2 electric hoist in the barn, when not using it I hoist it up into the apex and park the MH under it.

Must get me a barn ! .
Thanks though, All the trailers I saw were just single axle, & look like a disaster waiting to happen. Perching 4 wheels up above two, cannot be safer ! Twin axle is certainly better, but just not practical for me. Cheers

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[Badknee]

I had a Towbars2towcars system on a previous van. I loved it, but never went abroad with it. Although it's inherently safer than a car on top of a trailer, I hear it's still frowned upon by some countries, and I do intend going abroad in the future. I really don't have room for a trailer as well as the vehicles on my drive.
So I'm currently trying to decide which way to jump. Toad car, or trailored car. Can anyone help me decide ?

It’s not frowned on it’s illegal.

 

[Charlie9038]

A bit like myself no room for a trailer, so the only option is to hire a car abroad or risk getting pulled and told to disconnect & or possibly a small fine if your very unlucky.

So far I have only towed in the UK but would not be without it here.

If you are going to risk it abroad electronic braked is the best option, and least then you can give them the BS about the vienna convention UK trailer law and hope for the best.

I have seen more a frames abroad than coppers so you have to weigh up the options/risk.

This will get the a frame police going but we are all entitled to an opinion.

 

[Golden Graham !]

It’s not frowned on it’s illegal.

So is spitting on the pavement, a very sensible law, but frequently broken!

 

[Boris7]

Have to say, I’ve seen loads of A frames in Europe and didn’t have any idea they were illegal.

Biggest issue for me is is you wreck a car on track then an A frame is as much good as a chocolate fireguard.

 

[LesW]

So is spitting on the pavement, a very sensible law, but frequently broken!

Then why ask advice.. just go.

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[Golden Graham !]

Sorry, Boris, I don't understand. Thanks anyway

 

[dunnah01]

Never seen an A frame in France, Italy or Germany which tells me something

 

[LesW]

Have to say, I’ve seen loads of A frames in Europe and didn’t have any idea they were illegal.

Biggest issue for me is is you wreck a car on track then an A frame is as much good as a chocolate fireguard.

It does seem to be 'the luck of the draw' I've also seen a few in France.. but a friend of mine who was towing his car to his French holiday home, was stopped by French police and told to uncouple his car and leave it in a layby.

Fortunately his wife was able to drive the car to thier destination.

 

[Golden Graham !]

Then why ask advice.. just go.

Then why ask advice.. just go.

I like the advice from some . Why answer.

 

[LesW]

You ask advice, you get answers, but don't like the ones that go against what you want to hear.

My advice.. just go and take a chance..

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[PeteH]

It` a matter of being Pragmatic. The only place I Know it to be Legal, is the USA where literally thousands use them and there is a small industry of support. And unlike trailer wrecks no reported cases of issues, AFAIK. In the UK it is a grey area and Ignored by law enforcement because of that. In Spain and other EU countries it is Not legal.

For many years, in Europe, it was largely ignored, but in more recent times people are being stopped on a more frequent basis. 2007/8 I was stopped twice, plus once told by a Guardia on a Rest area "not legal".

There is No LOGIC to it. it works it is efficient, has no reported accident statistics (unlike caravans). does not require dedicated/secure storage on site or off. IMV, it is a victim of Bureaucratic Meddling.

 

[Golden Graham !]

Never seen an A frame in France, Italy or Germany which tells me something

I've seen loads in france. What I don't know is how many got stopped and in which countries, also if they get a lecture or a fine. I've been stopped several times in France for "possible offences" but never prosecuted for anything. I've no idea about Spain or Portugal though, which is why I posted this. Thanks

 

[Golden Graham !]

It` a matter of being Pragmatic. The only place I Know it to be Legal, is the USA where literally thousands use them and there is a small industry of support. And unlike trailer wrecks no reported cases of issues, AFAIK. In the UK it is a grey area and Ignored by law enforcement because of that. In Spain and other EU countries it is Not legal.

For many years, in Europe, it was largely ignored, but in more recent times people are being stopped on a more frequent basis. 2007/8 I was stopped twice, plus once told by a Guardia on a Rest area "not legal".

There is No LOGIC to it. it works it is efficient, has no reported accident statistics (unlike caravans). does not require dedicated/secure storage on site or off. IMV, it is a victim of Bureaucratic Meddling.

I knew there must be some sensible replies thanks Cheers

 

[PeteH]

I've seen loads in france. What I don't know is how many got stopped and in which countries, also if they get a lecture or a fine. I've been stopped several times in France for "possible offences" but never prosecuted for anything. I've no idea about Spain or Portugal though, which is why I posted this. Thanks

I`ll tell you what happened to me. On 2 separate occasions I was flagged down by Guardia Civil on motorcycles, Both times they asked to see "papers", which I obliged. They then proceeded to tell me in a mixture of English and Spanish, that the Car I was towing "it was not legal in Spain". one said to the wife, "you drive car". To which the reply was "I not drive" and showed her disabled blue badge. Short conference, and the decision was made. "You take back to Britain, Not bring again". (we where on our way home anyway). Second time. it happened same pull, Bike cops, Sunday, This time they where insistant that I de-couple and it be driven. When I pointed there WAS no one to drive it except me, there was a bit of an impasse, So I started to remove some stuff we needed out of the car. I assume they though I was going to abandon it, (which I would have, as it owed me less than £300). At that point I again got waved on, with and admonition "you no bring to Spain again, Not legal".

And there endeth my. Wintering in Spain. The following year I bought a Winnebago in Florida. Put the hire car on a "U" Haul dolly, and towed it back to Texas. Over the next years we had 6 months out there at a time, "A" frame Towing a Toyota Tacoma 4WD Pickup, Over 20K mile and 27 states. Never any hassle. And a shed load of memories.

 

[Charlie9038]

I`ll tell you what happened to me. On 2 separate occasions I was flagged down by Guardia Civil on motorcycles, Both times they asked to see "papers", which I obliged. They they proceeded to tell me in a mixture of English and Spanish, that the Car I was towing "it was not legal in Spain". one said to the wife, "you drive car". To which the reply was "I not drive" and showed her disabled blue badge. Short conference, and the decision was made. "You take back to Britain, Not bring again". (we where on our way home anyway). Second time. it happened same pull, Bike cops, Sunday, This time they where instant that I de-couple and it be driven. When I pointed there WAS no one to drive it except me, there was a bit of an impasse, So I started to remove some stuff we needed out of the car. I assume they though I was going to abandon it, (which I would have, as it owed me less than £300). At that point I again got waved on, with and admonition "you no bring to Spain again, Not legal".

And there endeth my. Wintering in Spain. The following year I bought a Winnebago in Florida. Put the hire car on a "U" Haul dolly, and towed it back to Texas. Over the next years we had 6 months out there at a time, "A" frame Towing a Toyota Tacoma 4WD Pickup, Over 20K mile and 27 states. Never any hassle. And a shed load of memories.

Interesting, Pete can I ask without the a frame police butting in were you using an electronic braked a frame?

Thanks

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[gus-lopez]

I wouldn't have any kind of trailer with a single axle for that very reason.
Even my 750kg box trailer is twin axle.

You can't have too many axles.

Sorry, Boris, I don't understand. Thanks anyway

He means you are towing said car on an A frame. It gets damaged & can't be dragged behind. What is your answer? with a trailer you can load the scrap up & take it away with you..

 

[PeteH]

Interesting, Pete can I ask without the a frame police butting in were you using an electronic braked a frame?

Thanks

The frame for the British Punto, was a Car-A-Tow, with overun. The Tacoma, had a Blue Ox system, and electric braking. Fabulous system, but would have cost an "arm and leg" to import. even as Personal Import. (No VAT)

 

[pappajohn]

The only place I Know it to be Legal, is the USA where literally thousands use them and there is a small industry of support.

And in Michigan, possibly more states, it allowed to double tow.
Pickup truck towing a fifth wheel towing a boat trailer.
Only need the correct category on your licence.

 

[Golden Graham !]

You can't have too many axles.


He means you are towing said car on an A frame. It gets damaged & can't be dragged behind. What is your answer? with a trailer you can load the scrap up & take it away with you..

Haha.. thanks. My answer would be to leave the pile of scrap for someone else to sort out. Not exactly my highest priority though !

 

[tonyidle]

I wouldn't have any kind of trailer with a single axle for that very reason.
Even my 750kg box trailer is twin axle.

Tyrepal works. I didn't go for a twin axle having had experience of moving them by hand off road. The tyre thing is a two-edged sword. Four tyres need replacing at the same interval as two. I've enough outlay for the six on the van .

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