Tow car keeps towing vehicle running!?

[Jeffers_S13]

Sure this isn't normal but I just picked up a tow car (07 Fiat Panda) with a-frame and integrated towing lights although it's installation is a little questionable so I was intending to tidy it up (i.e. twisted wires with a bit of insulation tape on top...) but it all functions OK, well it seemed to.

I used my van to collect the car and towed it home with it (not my MoHo), when I got home and pulled up outside my house I turned the van off and removed the key only to discover that it continued to run as if the key was still in and the ignition still on!?

When I turned the tow car key off, the van stopped too, presumably because the tow car was providing the power to keep the van going somehow.

Surely this isn't normal?!?

 

[pappajohn]

No, it's not.
Your electrics need a serious looking at before any damage is done to one or both systems.

Why was the towed car key on?
It should only be in the acc position to release the steering lock.... The engine shouldn't be running while on tow.

 

[Kevan]

Very dodgy, and worrying, have been towing a toad for years with no probs, as pappajohn says get it looked at asap.

 

[TheBig1]

none of the electrical circuits on the towcar should be powered whilst towing, so no back feed to the van ignition

 

[tacr2man]

You are getting a back feed thru the ign live circuit , does your van have a permanent live feed thru tow plug , as it could be as simple as the seven pin plug (or other plug) being wired differently on van and tow car .

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[pappajohn]

none of the electrical circuits on the towcar should be powered whilst towing, so no back feed to the van ignition

It appears the cars lights have been tapped into so the lighting circuits will be live as the lights are used.

 

[pappajohn]

You are getting a back feed thru the ign live circuit , does your van have a permanent live feed thru tow plug , as it could be as simple as the seven pin plug (or other plug) being wired differently on van and tow car .

And I think this is the reason why....
Still waiting for a reply but I think the car engine was running or at least the ignition was fully on.

When I turned the tow car key off, the van stopped too, presumably because the tow car was providing the power to keep the van going somehow.

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

none of the electrical circuits on the towcar should be powered whilst towing, so no back feed to the van ignition

Just check your wiring from the Car (Toad) back to the Truck. Some have now started fitting a live feed to charge the car when its on the truck. It is normally fitted by those who know what they are doing rather than your average bloke in his garage . That aside...it may be that some one has had a go and thought it was ok?
Either way...it needs looking in to

Kev

 

[Ivor Lock]

I had a Fiat Panda toad, it was wired professionally, with no problems. Being an engineer I am amazed what goes on in order to save money. Vans are fitted with 13 poles to allow lights, brakes, and battery charging. I have just carried on discussions about the electronics being fitted to toads, and been shouted down, but poor electrics can cause fires. Are you going to disconnect your toad when it's burning nicely, or watch thousands of pounds disappear before your very eyes?
Do it properly, and do it once!!

 

[pappajohn]

It is normally fitted by those who know what they are doing

Why on God's earth would they want to do that?
Every car in the land will spend time unused for a week or more at some point and still operate as it should, a toad may be hooked up for a few hours at a time.
If that was done to mine they would be undoing it and not even thinking of charging for the work..... Never heard of anything as daft.
The only reason I can think is they can charge more for doing it and to the average driver it sounds good. .

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[HandyAndy]

none of the electrical circuits on the towcar should be powered whilst towing, so no back feed to the van ignition

New A frame designs tap into the tow car electrics to allow the lights / brake light / turn signals etc to be used, therefore negating the need to fit a tow board.
Much better idea... if wired up right
Some even have an additional electrical vacuum pump fitted to keep the brake servo topped up so that the cars brakes work (better) as well.

 

[pappajohn]

New A frame designs tap into the tow car electrics to allow the lights / brake light / turn signals etc to be used, therefore negating the need to fit a tow board.
Much better idea... if wired up right
Some even have an additional electrical vacuum pump fitted to keep the brake servo topped up so that the cars brakes work as well.

And as its a trailer on tow it still legally needs two TRIANGULAR reflectors to meet lighting regs.
The inbuilt reflectors don't meet trailer regs.
How are those fitted?

 

[Ivor Lock]

The obvious answer to your reply is BULLSHIT. This is the exact point I am trying to make, and you are proving my point.

 

[HandyAndy]

And as its a trailer on tow it still legally needs two TRIANGULAR reflectors to meet lighting regs.
The inbuilt reflectors don't meet trailer regs.
How are those fitted?

on the licence plate I assume as you will still have to hang the reg plate from the tow vehicle on the back

 

[Ivor Lock]

The obvious answer to your reply is BULLSHIT. This is the exact point I am trying to make, and you

are proving my point.

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[HandyAndy]

Calm down Ivor, it was a legit question. Triangle reflectors (not stickers LOL) are part of the lighting regs in the UK. (not that many people give a toss mind)

 

[Ivor Lock]

It is better to keep your mouth shut, and let people think you are stupid, than to open it, and remove all doubt.

 

[Steve and Denise]

It is better to keep your mouth shut, and let people think you are stupid, than to open it, and remove all doubt.

Sounds like you may fit in nicely on here ?

 

[HandyAndy]

Ivor chip on my shoulder more like.. I'm out..
Can you block people on this forum?

 

[rb62]

Ivor chip on my shoulder more like.. I'm out..
Can you block people on this forum?

Just click on their avatar, ignore,follow,start a conversion

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[Just smiffy]

Ivor is having a bad day.....??

 

[RogerThat]

Well, that escalated quickly...

 

[Realist]

Just reading the above with interest and noticed Ivor's been banned.

Shame some people do come across like idiots and know it all’s but everyone has their own opinion but the topic is what I’m interested in as I’m looking into getting a C3 converted but I keep dropping the idea.

 

[pappajohn]

Just reading the above with interest and noticed Ivor's been banned.

Shame some people do come across like idiots and know it all’s but everyone has their own opinion but the topic is what I’m interested in as I’m looking into getting a C3 converted but I keep dropping the idea.

The problem with modern cars is the canbus and bulb failure curcuits.
DIY on a Canbus system is definately not a job for those without experience.

In my opinion the easiest option are magnetic based lights and a small square of cloth to put between magnet and bodywork.
We used these during vehicle recovery and they didn't move or cause damage.
Same for reflectors, though you'd probably have to make those.

 

[Jeffers_S13]

Crikey, what was all that about !?

Oddly, the car I have bought is the same model and colour as the one in the image Ivor posted!

Anyway, when I took the car away, the seller hooked it all up whilst I kind of watched mainly as he was so enthusiastic and saved me getting my hands mucky note that I'm no stranger to towing or tinkering with cars having spent the last 20 years building and racing them. I've learnt various things about keeping the smoke inside the wires as a result and thankfully always have extinguishers on hand for when it has escaped...

I failed to point out that he had turned the key so that the whole dash had lit up and the ignition was on, rather than just turning it so that the steering lock was disengaged, I assumed this was the 'norm' so saw no reason to question it, my van was already running having just reversed up to the car, we checked signals and brake lights etc. then I left.

It's a Tow-a-car A-frame dated 2000 but as it predates the car (07) it obviously wasn't installed by them, it also has a cable operated brake. I have spent some time unravelling the god-awful wiring job that someone has done on the tow wire hookup, think twisted wires with slimey horrible insulation tape over the top all bundled up in a rats nest type arrangement, they didn't even use nasty scotch locks! All the wires are kind of crusty, you know how copper goes when being partially exposed to weather. It is all now removed and I'm looking at replacing some of the loom where it's been butchered, which is mainly immediately behind the headlight connectors. The joints were done in the same way you do towbar lights, i.e. just match the colours up on the tow lead to the correct ones on the loom, brakes, side lights, indicators etc

After I fix the loom, I'm not sure whether I will bother splicing into the toad's system or just run a light board or magnetic lights. Be much neater to make use of the road system.

Does anyone have a how-to for the splicing of the tow lights into the toad system of a 'modern' car?? is it simply a case of tapping into the relevant wires (but neatly) as per an old towbar set-up? or do I need a solenoid and diode system?

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[TheBig1]

give car-a-tow a ring and they will provide a printed sheet for your car's wiring loom and where best to tap into it with colours provided.

I prefer to use crimp and heatshrink but connectors. a decent connection and weatherproof takes very little extra time than bodging it, causing issues down the road

 

[DDJC]

We've stopped using our A Frame ?

Our own stupid fault, but it is best to warn others to not do what we did.
Our Suzuki Ignis SZ5 was professionally converted. Great job & no complaints. Electrics worked fine, and I echo what has been said about getting it done by someone who knows what they are doing.

Anyhoo, we coupled up back in May for funster time in Snowdonia, got three miles and bang, smoke pouring out of the Suzuki.

It's got electric ignition and is auto and we must have turned it on when hooking up. The car dropped into gear and overheated. Blew a hole in the front of the engine block.
New engine. Suzuki quote £6000, local mechanic £2500.

Ouch.

A very expensive mistake and we only use the trailer now, because having a small car is brilliant. This summer, the Suzuki drove four adult-sized people round the Arc de Triomphe, to the port for the Venice boat, into Slovenia, up to the 2500m high passes in the Tirol, round the Black Forest, etc.

Totally recommend the Ignis as a Toad or Trailer. Tardis-like, takes a towbar (ours can move its own trailer) and has loads of wine space. MPG only reduced by 2. And when on the trailer carries 200kg of gear so the bus is not overweight.

Just be careful with the electric ignition...

 

[tonyidle]

The OPs fault sounds as though the charging supply to the toad has been taken directly from an ignition-derived feed on the van or that a voltage sensitive split charge relay has been used to provide split charge. A VSR won't work because it won't release until the alternator stops charging. And that will not happen because the engine won't stop. All that's needed is a simple relay in the van that connects the toad battery to the van battery when the van ignition is turned on.