toad pros cons wants vrs needs (1 Viewer)

[Minxy]

We have a Toyota IQ2 as my wifes car, you can get 4 adults in at a push. Its a lot nicer to drive than a Smart. As its as wide as a normal car it feels like a normal car unlike the Smart, but its fun to drive. It also has a small turning circle 26.4ft

Have you driven the new Smart ForTwo? Turning circle of just under 24 ft (7.3m) and is definitely like a standard car being wider with the usual auto gear change (ie park/reverse/neutral/drive), very roomy and brilliant to drive.

 

[Minxy]

So, the looking after just the two of you bit is probably spot on. I can’t offer advice as to make or model, or trailer or A frame. But, in talking to a chap one day who had a Smart trailered, he said it is becoming more awkward getting in and out of the car with older balance and arthritis issues, and when it’s been raining as you only have a small area on which to put you feet and if slippy that can be awkward.

I've never heard those complaints before ... what Smart did he have? The have large door so access is great, the seat position is good too (ie not low) and as for feet space and being slippery ... that would apply to any car surely? I suspect he never moved the seat back/forth to get in which isn't necessary normally but would probably have helped him. I'm not saying he didn't have issues but certainly they are 'new ones' to me - I on occasions have mobility issues but have never struggled to get in/out due to any shortcomings of the car and that was with the old style Smarts and this new one too.

 

[PeteH]

Have a look at this. We used them several times in the USA, to hire cars, saved taking out cover at extortionate rates with hire companies.

https://www.icarhireinsurance.com/#0

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[dabhand]

I’ve not usd Aires at all yet, but read elsewhere on this forum that trailers are not allowed

You best tell that to the French then, on my last trip I couldn’t get on many small aires because the barstewards had taken up three spaces, one for the moho, one for the trailer and one for the car!

 

[Mr Chrysalis]

Have you driven the new Smart ForTwo? Turning circle of just under 24 ft (7.3m) and is definitely like a standard car being wider with the usual auto gear change (ie park/reverse/neutral/drive), very roomy and brilliant to drive.

Just curious, can the new Smartie be towed on an A frame or is it the auto box that cannot be towed?

 

[PeteH]

In 2003, last time we took a Trailer to Spain, I went through France both ways 32ft R-V 15ft Bed Brian James twin axle trailer with Renault Scenic on. No issue in Aires. just reversed in with the whole rig in most places.

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[TheTwoOfUs]

I've never heard those complaints before ... what Smart did he have? The have large door so access is great, the seat position is good too (ie not low) and as for feet space and being slippery ... that would apply to any car surely? I suspect he never moved the seat back/forth to get in which isn't necessary normally but would probably have helped him. I'm not saying he didn't have issues but certainly they are 'new ones' to me - I on occasions have mobility issues but have never struggled to get in/out due to any shortcomings of the car and that was with the old style Smarts and this new one too.

I suspect he meant it was difficult getting in and out when the car was on the trailer.
With the wide doors and relatively high floor it's much better for Merilyn's 92 year old dad to get into than my Jag.

 

[jezport]

Have you driven the new Smart ForTwo? Turning circle of just under 24 ft (7.3m) and is definitely like a standard car being wider with the usual auto gear change (ie park/reverse/neutral/drive), very roomy and brilliant to drive.

Is too damn ugly I dont care how it drives

 

[Mr Chrysalis]

You best tell that to the French then, on my last trip I couldn’t get on many small aires because the barstewards had taken up three spaces, one for the moho, one for the trailer and one for the car!

This is the thread that stated trailers are not allowed on French Aires, by @Pia and @Larrynwin : I don’t know the source of their advice.

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...ce-caution-re-a-frame-in-france.159710/page-3

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[grumps147]

I've never heard those complaints before ... what Smart did he have? The have large door so access is great, the seat position is good too (ie not low) and as for feet space and being slippery ... that would apply to any car surely? I suspect he never moved the seat back/forth to get in which isn't necessary normally but would probably have helped him. I'm not saying he didn't have issues but certainly they are 'new ones' to me - I on occasions have mobility issues but have never struggled to get in/out due to any shortcomings of the car and that was with the old style Smarts and this new one too.

I think he was referring to the point on the trailer his foot went on when getting in and out. He couldn’t put his foot straight on the ground, it had to go on the trailer first. I don’t think it was particularly a car issue. I can’t remember the make of trailer, but am pretty certain it looked substantial. It wasn’t something I would have thought of as an issue until he drew my attention to it. He also pointed out some mods he had made with rods and luminescent balls, so he could see the trailer when reversing. I really wish I had taken some photos at the time, just never crossed my mind. He swore by his smart car, really liked it for round towns and cities in France. He did say he used sites rather than Aires.

 

[Larrynwin]

This is the thread that stated trailers are not allowed on French Aires, by @Pia and @Larrynwin : I don’t know the source of their advice.

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...ce-caution-re-a-frame-in-france.159710/page-3

I have never, unless in a drunken stupor, stated that trailers are not allowed as I know that is not the case.
Aires to my knowledge are primarily for the use of Camping Cars ie Motorhomes
In the above thread I posted , and I quote " try using an Aires with a caravan" I did not mention trailer.

 

[John65]

We towed a trailer for the first time in France and Italy and used lots of Aires with no problem,however we did try to avoid small and busy Aires. If the aire got busy and we needed two spaces i would move somewhere else. We are setting off for Spain next Thursday with the trailer on so will see how we get on this time.

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[Mr Chrysalis]

I have never, unless in a drunken stupor, stated that trailers are not allowed as I know that is not the case.
Aires to my knowledge are primarily for the use of Camping Cars ie Motorhomes
In the above thread I posted , and I quote " try using an Aires with a caravan" I did not mention trailer.

We towed a trailer for the first time in France and Italy and used lots of Aires with no problem,however we did try to avoid small and busy Aires. If the aire got busy and we needed two spaces i would move somewhere else. We are setting off for Spain next Thursday with the trailer on so will see how we get on this time.

Then I will happily stand corrected and look forward to taking my Toad out to Aires. I must have taken the quotes out of context.

 

[Larrynwin]

Then I will happily stand corrected and look forward to taking my Toad out to Aires. I must have taken the quotes out of context.

I referred only to my post regarding caravans. Apologies if I didn't make it clearer.

 

[Minxy]

Just curious, can the new Smartie be towed on an A frame or is it the auto box that cannot be towed?

I believe you can't a-frame them, someone on another thread mentioned a few months ago I think that they had bought a new one and then found they couldn't a-frame it.

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[tonyidle]

I believe you can't a-frame them, someone on another thread mentioned a few months ago I think that they had bought a new one and then found they couldn't a-frame it.

Any car that is a 'normal' ie torque converter auto cannot be towed. Robotic manuals can.

 

[Scout]

futher to an early post my GTW is 6000kg my authorised towing wieght is 1000kg my van payload is alos around 1000kg I rang autotrail and after being passed around a few peolpe it was decieded because my van is an 2011 modle, if i wanted to decrease or not use my maximum payload I can incress the towing limit as long as I dont exceed the the GTW which makes sence to me ...and does allow a liltte more flexability with my plans..... as theres not many 4 seater car/trailer combos under 1000kg

 

[Mr Chrysalis]

futher to an early post my GTW is 6000kg my authorised towing wieght is 1000kg my van payload is alos around 1000kg I rang autotrail and after being passed around a few peolpe it was decieded because my van is an 2011 modle, if i wanted to decrease or not use my maximum payload I can incress the towing limit as long as I dont exceed the the GTW which makes sence to me ...and does allow a liltte more flexability with my plans..... as theres not many 4 seater car/trailer combos under 1000kg

Thought you might find this list useful
https://www.gocaravanning.com/towcars/
It lists all cars by weight

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[nar53]

Thanks for your long post, I know of your Ex smarti and its new owner, I notice you metion the none abiility to use Aries in france with a trailer on tow (or even an A frame ) is this correct?

Hi, This may have been answered but if not. Re Aires in France, I live in France & have been Motorhoming for the past 10yrs in France & have never seen a problem re trailers or A frames on Aires in France. However some Aires are very small with no room for a trailer, we try to avoid the tiny aires but sometimes you have no choice. Also as from last year we started towing a Toyota iQ with an A frame and apart from a couple of minor glitches its been fantastic for us.

Cheers....

 

[DJP]

We have towed many cars on A Frames over the years. 3 years ago we came to Spain and wanted a car, we were here for 4 months, wanting to stay on the whiter side of a grey area we bought a trailer for the Smart and set off.
The Smart and the Trailer took us to our towing limit of 1000kg with hardly any fuel and no ‘luggage’
I found the set up to be ok but was concerned about a possible blow out on the trailer where we may have lost the car and Trailer and any other unknown damage.
For the last 2 years we have brought the Smart down on an A Frame. Signs in the back window state it’s an electronically braked Trailer and a long vehicle warning board (not the red and white one) as we are over 12 mtrs. We are on site with at least 5 other Brits with cars on A frames.
Pros
Car only has 2 seats, don’t have to worry which friends to take
Cheap to tax £0 Insurance £160 annual service £160
So cheap to run. 45mpg
Safer to tow with ; wheels on the ground, ok can’t reverse, but only had one situation in 2 years 4000 miles where we had to reverse, simple to jump out and unhook.
Hiring a car? When touring short term hire is expensive at around £170 per week. Can’t always get to an airport for cheap car hire.
Buses are ok if you want to stay fairly local and in towns of cities. We like to get out into the country Desert de Las Palmas, Delta Ebro to name a couple.
If we see a nice town or village we can park up somewhere and go and explore in the car, on our own!
So it’s a car on an A Frame every time and a Smart suits us just fine.
We will continue to take the risk of being stopped and are fortunate enough that both of us drive. If there is only one driver then the whole scenario would be different especially in Spain (currently anyway)
Greater Freedom and Choice are the reasons for a car

 

[Charlie]

We A frame and have had zero problems.. I may elect to buy a small trailer if we venture outside of the UK or France.

Hiring is not always possible. il De Ray for example. Plus it’s a faff and I don’t want faff when away.

For us a car is a necessity due to my wife’s health or we would cycle. No point going somewhere nice and not being able to get about easily.

Big benefit most have not mentioned is we bung lots of kit in our Toad a Toyota IQ. great wee trailer for getting all the junk in.

I bought our wee IQ and it replaced my at the time ripunaround a Fiesta diesel. The IQ cost so little to run. Amazing MPG plus zero VED and £160 to insure. Having the wee car saves me so much money over running round in our Toyota RAV4. So for us a toad benefits us greatly. I we were to sell the MH the wee IQ would stay with us for sure. I’m doing 14K miles a year in it for very very little money.

Of course to own insure and maintain wee car for 3 or 4 weeks use a year would be financially not on..

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[Mac Man]

We have just started towing with A frame. Our towed vehicle is a Fiat Qubo converted for a wheelchair passenger (her indoors). Before we bought the Qubo I carried the wheelchair (fitted with a power assist drive) on the cycle rack and I walked everywhere unless we managed to ride a bus that could take wheelchairs.
The Qubo has been professionally converted for wheelchair passenger by Brook Miller where I bought from. They also did the A frame fitting, it was advertised on EBay as the complete package. I use the Qubo as an everyday car just fitting the A frame when we need to tow.
So far I’m happy with the set up. Don’t intend to venture to the continent, we did all that for 15 years when the wife was fit and well, now we just stay in UK.
Mac Man

 

[OldCodger]

Thanks for your long post, I know of your Ex smarti and its new owner, I notice you mention the none ability to use Aries in France with a trailer on tow (or even an A frame ) is this correct?

I can't claim a lot of knowledge but I have seen towed vehicles of all types in Aires; cars, motorbikes, scooters on trailers and on A-frames.

Most of the aires in France we stayed in were actually just car parks sometimes with a few spaces reserved for MoHos. Almost all of the ones that were "official" aires had water and a toilet cassette dump. Some did not. Some small towns just have space for one or two MoHos. In some tourist towns the car park was taken over by MoHo's over night. Turning up with a car in tow and taking up a space would probably be considered unfriendly.

Some Aires have lists of things you can and can't do. Almost all prohibit "Camping Activity" which includes putting out awnings and even seats and tables (although the latter was widely ignored!) . I don't recall seeing any specific ban on towed/towing vehicles.



I do know that at the aire in Honfleur (which is massive with 210 official places but often has many more squeezed in) they charge you for two places - €11 a night for each vehicle. I saw a coach conversion there with side slide outs and towing a saloon car (on a trailer). It had two tickets . This site is patrolled constantly by wardens who check tickets meticulously so if it was not permitted I don't think it would have stayed long.

I guess its widely "permitted" - which is to say it happens and (almost) no one stops it - whether or not there are rules, by-laws or national laws preventing it.

Edit: I just saw this on http://www.all-the-aires.com/

"Rules vary slightly from country to country but predominantly only motorhomes can use the motorhome stopovers. The law only permits 'Self Contained' motorhomes to be parked responsibly and their users to cook and sleep within them. A self-contained motorhome needs to have a toilet, water container for both fresh and waste water attached to or inside the vehicle, and you must be able to cook and sleep inside the vehicle. "

But as many are actually just car parks this isn't universally the case.

 

[Minxy]

We've certainly seen trailers in use with MHs on aires so there doesn't appear to be an issue as some had police patrols occasionally and they didn't bother doing anything about them, however as we mainly use free aires it may be that the paid ones might not be so tolerant if you take up a second MH spot which IMV is a no-no anyway. There are some aires which are small so taking up a space for a trailer is out of order so just park it on the road instead, if not then go elsewhere, but a lot the aires are big so leaving it behind your MH isn't a problem - the size of a smaller MH with a trailer is no different in size a lot of the time to a large RV taking up a space.

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[jumartoo]

Here in Totana a unit of a long motorhome with a trailer pays the same as a tiny campervan. If the place was busy and the owners of a trailer wanted to keep it in a parking space they would be expected to pay for the space. We've had people using three spaces at quiet times and only been charged €7!!!

 

[The Fossies]

I’m considering buying a car to take behind the motorhome,

FACTS

1:can’t do bikes as I’ve got no sense of balance

2:can’t do much walking because we can’t

3: we NEED some form of getting about when on site or at a rally

4: I can justify buying/running anther small car anyway

Cons
A Frames UK only possibly France

Pros
Small Trailer would have other uses

Likes
Would really fancy an open backed Smart 2 seater

Wife says we need to consider when we take the grandkids
I say sod it….do what we want for a change

 

[The Fossies]

We have a Toyota IQ which is ideal to tow behind as its an occasional 4 seater when required so beats a smart car for practicality if you need to think of Grandkids etc..

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[zac]

I would say a small car on a trailer and fit a motor mover to make life easy. Car hire a very good idea but when we hired one in Spain ( Feb 2017) we used Gold car €23 for 4 days. However fully comp. insurance €95 plus some other charge total about €135.could have had cheaper insurance but they hold your credit card details and charge for any kind of damage.

This is exactly what we now have, a small trailer with a smart cabrio and a motormover fitted to the trailer which makes hitching up and moving it on site a breeze. We have just come back from a 3 week vactation in Portugal/Spain and covered over 2800miles all without a problem. I use tyre sensors on the trailer to ensure tyre pressures are ok and to ensure i know about a puncture as would be hard to feel it with our MH as you dont notice you are towing. I have nothing against A Frames as i did have one myself and this also worked but then went down the motorcycle route (hydratrail) but the wife didnt like the motorbike and as she cannot ride a push bike due to medical condition another car was the only option. As we also tend to travel in Spain at least once a year an AFrame was then out of the question so i tried to make it as easiest as possible for me (back/neck issues). The trailer with the motormover was not a cheap option as this in itslef cost me £1800 2nd hand, new you can expect to pay around £2500 - £3000 with the motormover. But it has not missed a beat in the short time i have owned it (just under 2 years) and 2 trips to the Algarve/Spain. I do tend to get the trailer serviced every year just form piece of mind which is probably OTT given that we only use it a handful of times a year. The smart is not used at all aside when not being used with the MH, insurance is £100 a year with no tax, service is another £100 a year so not too bad. The car has allowed us to go where we want and into some really remote areas that you would certainly not fit our MH. AFrames will def be cheaper but it just depends on what you want to do and where you want to go and how easy you want it to be.

We did see a spanish couple towing an AFrame whilst we were in spain at xmas time this year so some still do take the risks, they would probably be able to argue it more being spanish themselves.

 

[eddie]

Lyn, my wife and I have just come back from a couple of weeks in Paris in our camper. We took our bikes and had a great time cycling around Paris. I have a really good fold up bike trailer which I find excellent for carting stuff backwards and forwards around the campsite, collecting shopping and its intended purpose to allow us to take our 47Kg German Shepherd with us when we go out for longer bike rides

Next Month we will be off to the NEC for 10 days or so working and will tow a little car that we bought new, in 2007 just for the purpose of towing on a Car A Tow "A" Frame

Often if we are off just for the weekend, we take nothing with us

We have had no problem towing the car at all

Personally, had I known about the restrictions that have seemed to surface in the last Ten years I would have bought a small trailer, as I didn't originally intend to keep the Terios as long as I have