To tow or not tow?

[Verteuil Man]

Just to gauge an opinion on the thorny subject of towing a pup car behind a motorhome on the Continent.
CAMC is quite clear as is CCC, but what is the legal stance?

 

[Spriddler]

There isn't a simple answer.
Loads of threads, replies and a variety of opinions/facts re legality on this subject if you use the 'Search' facility.

 

[David and Sally]

There are many threads about this if you are talking a frames. If on a trailer no problem.

The overall legal advice is that it is illegal. Spain most particularly.

Some do do it but they risk a fine and being forced to separate the car and towing vehicle.

 

[Reallyretired]

From personal experience a toad is only needed in the UK because of our parking problems and sites in the middle of nowhere. Mostly on the continent you can easily park within a short walk of where you want to go. The one time we took a toad abroad we left it with friends in the South of France and picked it up on the way home as it was more of an encumbrance than useful.

 

[royandsharont]

We have toured EU for 4 months a year since 2012 up to the pandemic and only had our manual bikes. We said we would always hire a car if we felt we needed one. Our Spanish friends have loaned us a car when we’re in their town, on occasions, but most of the time it has remained just parked on the campsite. We have hired a guided private tour guide in the Picos using a 4x4, caught trains and busses but have never felt we needed to hire a car. We’re resisting electric bikes too for as long as we are able to ride under our own steam.

So I suppose I am saying leave it, save the money and hassle and if necessary hire one

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[Peter and Julie]

Hire a car if on site for any time Cost of of trailer plus car isnt worth it.

 

[Verteuil Man]

I have been wanting to start this thread but have not got around to it. Three years ago I started doing some research and most, bust not all said no, illegal. However looking passed the usual Internet opinions and looking people who have done proper research I took the plunge and bought a TOAD kit for a Fiat 500. More to be continued as battery going flat. See you in the morning.

 

[Verteuil Man]

Morning. All charged up and paper read.

A couple of years ago we decided to tow a car behind the motorhome. A trailer is not an option as we only have 1000kg train weight (tag axle with tapering Alko chassis not able to upgrade). I spoke to the A Frame people who dispelled a lot of the rumours and myths around towing in Spain and Germany. We have friends who live in Spain and they know how strict the rules are there, but the majority of them only apply to Spanish registered vehicles.

All countries have different road regulations. In France a caravan is a separately registered vehicle. In the UK they are not. People are not prosecuted in France for towing UK caravans.

Attached is a document that explains it much better than I can, but basically if the vehicle is legal in the country it can be used abroad for upto 6 months.

 

[TOAD on Tour]

I guess the more simpler question would be: Has anybody been stopped by the Police on the continent when towing a car on an A Frame and had to disconnect it etc.? We have a little Fiat Abarth on an A Frame fitted by LNB in Bristol, but have only used it in the U.K.

 

[David and Sally]

Go for it then. This has been debated endlessly on here and the usual consensus is - how lucky do you feel?

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[Manic]

When we tour in Europe we use Aires and find we don need the car with us, we do shopping as we move from Aire to Aire

 

[Verteuil Man]

I have heard of people being stopped and told to disconnect by Spanish Police but that is because they are enforcing Spanish law and do not know International law. The LNB document are also translated into French, German, Italian and Spanish.

What I have also done is register the "towed vehicle" as a trailer with DVLA. It has its own registration number which I display in the side windows of the car. Its the same as a HGV trailer. It is registered as a Towmaster. Cost £28 plus plates.

No problems in Spain this year and we saw plenty of Police. At one point we had to stop at a road junction where there was 4 Police officers stood by their vehicles.

 

[Neil S]

I have heard of people being stopped and told to disconnect by Spanish Police but that is because they are enforcing Spanish law and do not know International law. The LNB document are also translated into French, German, Italian and Spanish.

What I have also done is register the "towed vehicle" as a trailer with DVLA. It has its own registration number which I display in the side windows of the car. Its the same as a HGV trailer. It is registered as a Towmaster. Cost £28 plus plates.

No problems in Spain this year and we saw plenty of Police. At one point we had to stop at a road junction where there was 4 Police officers stood by their vehicles.

Begs the question why did you bother posing the question in your original post in the first place
Since you’ve obviously made up your mind that it’s ok to use an A-frame abroad irrespective of what others may say

 

[Peter and Julie]

Begs the question why did you bother posing the question in your original post in the first place
Since you’ve obviously made up your mind that it’s ok to use an A-frame abroad irrespective of what others may say

Would think it's to find out other peoples view? You know like collective experience of over 40,000 members on this site?
Sorry 56,000......

 

[David and Sally]

but that is because they are enforcing Spanish law and do not know International law.

Are you really going to stand at the roadside with a Spanish cop debating International Law? He/She is the only law that matters at that time.

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[Shrimp]

We have a toad but don’t take it to France, no need I’ve there as using Aires we just shop when we move or walk!
Only ever took car to France when we property sat for several winters and I just drove separately to MoHo.

 

[Oldrat]

I suspect that Spanish police are similar to UK police in that there are run of the mill officers who think that they know traffic law and some specialist traffic officers who probably do know. These specialists have diminished somewhat over recent years.

This situation encourages beat officers to ‘try their hand’ with little knowledge.

I’m aware of a number of cases of ‘standard’ street patrolling officers wrongly reporting folks for traffic offences such as braking or steering defects and speeding offences etc who haven’t got a clue about the nuances or requirements of the legislation. Occasionally these reports get past the admin teams and the prosecution ensues.

I suppose what I’m saying is that just because officer A says it’s ok/ not ok, don’t necessarily take it as gospel.

 

[Verteuil Man]

There are 2 main reasons for me wanting to take the car.

1 In winter we go to Spain for 3 months, set up and stay put.
2 Due to various medical issues I cannot walk far and I am also likely to trip.
If I was stopped by the Police I would not debate the law, I would show them the paperwork.
I also thought that by sharing the information that I had found would help other Funsters, not make them grumpy.

 

[David and Sally]

T
I also thought that by sharing the information that I had found would help other Funsters, not make them grumpy.

No, it is all good info. But, I think all the paperwork you have shown has been seen before and debated then. If a Spanish officer fines you I guess you could argue the toss with the authorities later but at the time you would be expected to pay up.

As a generalisation, only vehicles being recovered can be on their own wheels, usually on a dolly. In Spain I believe all wheels have to be off the ground.(??)

Given your circumstances and your paperwork I guess you are going to try it. I hope it all works out well.

 

[TOAD on Tour]

Have to say, as I mentioned earlier, there are lots of people who say this that and the other, but does anybody actually know of incidents when people have been pulled over and had to disconnect the car from an A Frame? I would be very interested to hear if anybody has known this to happen, as it would then confirm with me, not take an A Frame to Spain etc. the people who we bought our current van from claimed to have taken their TOAD every year to France for 4/5 years running and never had an issue.

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[Gaston aires]

We used a Smart toad for a year or so while the missus had hip problems. Didn’t take it abroad though. Back to the scooter on a rack, much preferred, now she can get her leg over again
Phil

 

[VXman]

All countries have different road regulations. In France a caravan is a separately registered vehicle. In the UK they are not. People are not prosecuted in France for towing UK caravans.

Attached is a document that explains it much better than I can, but basically if the vehicle is legal in the country it can be used abroad for upto 6 months.View attachment 642607

Interesting take on it. Reminded me of an incident some years ago in France when the police stopped us in a car club group of VX220's. As standard from the factory these cars number plates are stuck to the bodywork with double sided sticky pads. The police said that was illegal in France and they needed to be fixed to the bodywork with screws. a dozen of us were fined.

I never really believed what the French police were doing was legal. There must be loads of smaller differences in motoring law regarding specification of cars. They could not possibly enforce French law on all UK cars. I think they just didn't like the look of a large group of British sports cars on French roads and wanted to extract a pile of euros from us.

 

[Al n Val]

So in Oct 2020 an older couple pitched up across from us, Bristol based as I remember and they been motorhoming nigh on 50 years.

The next day both were up early and came back later on that day late afternoon with a shiny Citroen 4 door car which they’d hired from Alicante airport.

I asked him the craic which he knew very well, insurance purchased in the UK for £32 annually and the car was, wait for it……

€43 for 41 days and he showed me his receipts so no leg pulling

He went on to say all those who pull a car behind them or trailer one are bonkers

 

[pampam]

Daughter used to pay €12 a week for car from alicante airport

 

[TOAD on Tour]

So in Oct 2020 an older couple pitched up across from us, Bristol based as I remember and they been motorhoming nigh on 50 years.

The next day both were up early and came back later on that day late afternoon with a shiny Citroen 4 door car which they’d hired from Alicante airport.

I asked him the craic which he knew very well, insurance purchased in the UK for £32 annually and the car was, wait for it……

€43 for 41 days and he showed me his receipts so no leg pulling

He went on to say all those who pull a car behind them or trailer one are bonkers

rather than being bonkers, some may have to tow a car due to one’s disability and still be able to tour so many places vs towing a caravan. Peoples circumstances differ tremendously. As for hiring a car car for approximately €1 a day……..yeah right!

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[Garfields]

We’re resisting electric bikes too for as long as we are able to ride under our own steam.

Don't resist them embrace them.
Wish we had changed much sooner than we did.
We can still ride under our own steam but no way I'm switching back

 

[cyberyacht]

You won't get those prices these days post Covid. In fact you'd be lucky to be able to hire a car at all.

 

[Al n Val]

As for hiring a car car for approximately €1 a day……..yeah right!

You don’t believe me? that’s your perogative, quite frankly I don’t give 2 hoots

 

[pappajohn]

Really annoys me when the UK A frame manufacturers come up with this crap
They certainly aren't going to say .... They are definitely illegal when in mainland Europe....are they!

and I'm going to get a headed letter saying my car doesn't need an MOT because it's silver in colour and that is legal in the UK.

Do you think the foreign police will send me on my way?

 

[Neil S]

As I’ve said before , ask your A-frame supplier / manufacturer to give you a cast iron written guarantee that they will cover all fines or any other costs incurred if your stopped abroad and prosecuted .
Let see if any of them step up to plate