Threat of legal action Portugal - having small panic here (1 Viewer)

[JJ]

If you are coming back to Portugal, I advise visiting a Portuguse lawyer with the letter when you do so... or visit a British consulate.

I guess it depends on how much time and effort you want to spend on the matter.



JJ

 

[Southdowners]

It would appear that the letter you received is asking for a written defence of your actions in Portuguese within 20 days from receipt of the letter.

I would do as they request. Simply state the facts and see what they say. I would send it in English and use google translate to produce a copy in Portuguese - send both with an explanation that you have used google translate to produce the translation to explain any inconsistencies. I doubt very much that you'll hear anything back.

When skiing one year we parked in a underground car park (in our car), went to pay at the machine but found it out of order. We got a similar letter to you when we got home. I did as I've suggested you do and didn't hear anything back. We've visited France many times since and haven't been arrested!! Don't worry - all they're asking for is an explanation.

 

[gus-lopez]

I believe Mr Gus Lopez lives in Spain.

Spain is NOT Portugal.

They are not the same.

JJ

Quite correct Mr @JJ is the Portugese expert-

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[Ninjabob]

Looks like one of those demands for money from Nigeria - I would ignore it.

 

[Viennese]

Mags and Shirley - I think I would do what Southdowners suggests. You can always plead you didn't understand and ask for more time to sort it out. Refusing to pay or being confrontational is not a good idea. Where exactly are you?
Catherine

 

[Viennese]

Mags, you are quite near Albufeira, and nearby there is a small campsite run by Pedro, who is/was a Fun member (Quintapedro). I don't have a phone number for him but perhaps someone does, or he can take a message from here. We stayed there in 2015. His web site no longer works, but perhaps someone on here has a number and perhaps he could help. He is also a taxi driver if I remember rightly.

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[Southdowners]

I think the crux of the matter is that you haven't been fined.

All that is being asked of you is that you explain in writing within 20 days from receipt of the letter. If they had issued you a fine they would state clearly the amount of the fine.

The paragraph below (taken from your translation) is simply stating which Regulatory Decrees you may have been in contravention of and the possible fines applicable.

These facts, for violation of the provisions of No. 1 or No. 2 of Regulatory Decree no. 38/80 of 19 August, in conjunction with Article 1 (1) thereof. 18 of Decree-Law no.1 310/02 of December 18, are liable to punishment on a non-ordering basis, pursuant to the provisions of art. 47.0 (1), al. g) with a fine of € 150 to € 200 of the same legal provisions.

It is not saying that you have to pay.

I think they're being very fair in offering you the opportunity to explain.

 

[soreeyes]

We never entered the agreement till May 2017 so the offence was before ? Did you give your name and address or have they gone through the DVLA to gain your personal details ?

If they start using offences retrospectively people could get fines from years ago .

 

[Southdowners]

We never entered the agreement till May 2017 so the offence was before ? Did you give your name and address or have they gone through the DVLA to gain your personal details ?

If they start using offences retrospectively people could get fines from years ago .

She hasn't been fined!

Why make more of the issue than it warrants?

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[Mags52]

Thanks all. We’re going to write and explain then see what happens. We just got a bit of a shock yesterday but feeling calmer today. Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[Southdowners]

I'm sure all will be OK.

You're doing what they've asked of you - you can't do more than that.

 

[DL42846]

We run a furniture shop here in France, About a year ago we received a letter which looked very official claiming we had contravened some handicap law and demanded we pay 1500€ or face going to court and paying 3500€ We rang them and spoke to some woman who appeared very convincing quoting different laws etc. I investigated it further only to find out it was a scam, We reported it to the police who merely stated they were working the area. ignore it.
Just as a matter of interest, did the police at the time show you any signs indicating you couldn't park there. And did they give you a copy of what you had signed. If not I would throw the ball back in there court and ask for a copy .

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[Mags52]

Just as a matter of interest, did the police at the time show you any signs indicating you couldn't park there.

They took us over to the place where the sign "No overnight parking" should be. It wasn't there. They then said, "Oh - someone has taken it down."
The original letter is from the proper department in Silves. I think it is genuine.
We are writing to give our version of events and then see what happens. They haven't asked for any money yet.

 

[DL42846]

They took us over to the place where the sign "No overnight parking" should be. It wasn't there. They then said, "Oh - someone has taken it down."
The original letter is from the proper department in Silves. I think it is genuine.
We are writing to give our version of events and then see what happens. They haven't asked for any money yet.

Pity you didn't take a photo of the absent sign at the time with the police officer standing there. I wouldn't pay anything. Normally they rely on the statement submitted by the police officer. Perhaps they are just checking up on the police officers statement stating the sign wasn't there and no fine was applied. Here in France we often hear claims where the Gendarme take a back hander and don't apply a fine. Not saying that is the case but worth thinking about. I wouldn't loose any sleep over it.
These continentals can take years to sort out paperwork. I sold a property in Malta back in 2009. In September 2017. I received a Government letter stating I had not submitted a energy consumption report on the property which came into force the beginning of 2009. They claimed I would have to pay to have one done. The building was knocked down and three flats were built. I told them as it was a building site I think they would be safe in saying it had the worst insulation and highest consumption until the three new flats were built. They said they would send a letter to the new owner who built the three flats.

 

[JJ]

I am sure it will be fine... (not "fines")


JJ

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[Puddleduck]

Thanks all. We’re going to write and explain then see what happens. We just got a bit of a shock yesterday but feeling calmer today. Thanks for all the suggestions.

I would do the same.

If you ask at a school or university there will be a Portuguese speaker who will be able to do the translation for you for very little money - or use an online service

 

[Mags52]

I would do the same.

If you ask at a school or university there will be a Portuguese speaker who will be able to do the translation for you for very little money - or use an online service

They use Google Translate so we'll do the same. Thanks again.

 

[Puddleduck]

I would do the same.

If you ask at a school or university there will be a Portuguese speaker who will be able to do the translation for you for very little money - or use an online service

They use Google Translate so we'll do the same. Thanks again.

If you were closer there is a big Portuguese community in Duns,not far from us, and I have contacts there from when I was working

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[nicholsong]

Mags

I cannot find the other thread you referred to in your OP in this one, so I do not know the circumstances.

I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but here goes.

If it is the same as some others - that you were told by an Attendant that it was OK to stay for the night, then maybe, just maybe, they are just looking for evidence to reprimand the Company and/or Attendant for causing the problem, and are just using the legislation quoted to force replies.

This thinking is based on the fact that they have not issued a fine.

I think answering to explain is the right course

Geoff

 

[Riverbankannie]

They use Google Translate so we'll do the same. Thanks again.

Try and find a Portugese speaker who can translate should you send a letter. Google translate is fine to get the gist of something but you’ve got no idea what you will be writing and I wouldn’t trust it for your letter.

 

[gus-lopez]

We never entered the agreement till May 2017 so the offence was before ? Did you give your name and address or have they gone through the DVLA to gain your personal details ?

If they start using offences retrospectively people could get fines from years ago .

Which is my main objection to it, being that they have 12 months to issue the fine.
If they've got that long to dish them out no one, except people like me with a diary , are going to remember what they were doing/where they were/what day it was .It could well become another 'licence to print money'.

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[frogijock]

I believe some EU countries are now using U.K. Debt collecting agencies to pursue fines

 

[Just smiffy]

They took us over to the place where the sign "No overnight parking" should be. It wasn't there. They then said, "Oh - someone has taken it down."
The original letter is from the proper department in Silves. I think it is genuine.
We are writing to give our version of events and then see what happens. They haven't asked for any money yet.

So if you were parked in England and someone gave you a ticket for parking on double yellows but someone had taken the yellow lines away would you pay it...?

 

[Emmit]

Never trust a policeman. Or anyone in authority.The friendlier they are the bigger lying scum they are. Same in all countries.
They cannot lie in bed straight the vast majority.

For the future ,Always use your phone to record anything, if forced to sign anything then just use an illegible scrawl & your other hand. .
Send in your defence stating that you were specifically told that it was just a warning & ,if having signed something in a language you do not speak, it appears that you have incorrectly admitted something which you were not doing then you consider that you have been entrapped by criminal practice & conduct unbecoming a serving officer.
Additionally as they have used the cross border directive to serve the notice it has been done illegally & incorrectly under EU legislation, namely it is not in the language of the registration document,English, & there fore does not comply .
In addition ( & this depends on the date which you received the letter) the Portugese , or any country sending out notices, have 12 months from the date of the alleged offence to have instigated contact with the alleged offender.
As it is the 18th today ,& I doubt that you have been holding the letter for some 16 days , the 12 months lapsed on the 2nd January 2018.



** Oh I 've also just realised that 'parking' 'camping' whatever they want to call it doesn't come under the cross border directive.If that is what they have used to obtain details.**
** Regardless of whether they have or haven't used the cb directive I would further muddy the waters by assuming so & instigating a complaint via the EU solvit process that they are incorrectly using the Cross border directive namely in excess of the prescribed period & not in accordance with language requirements. + it is Free of charge.
http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/index_en.htm

You can also ask the specific requirements that they have to comply with by an enquiry.
https://europa.eu/european-union/contact/write-to-us_en

@gus-lopez,

It's a long time since I wore my Police Uniform with pride.
Your first three lines have overstepped the line.
Remember Rule 1.

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[Musicboy]

If in any doubt . Don't park........Plenty of sites/ Aires & prob safer. .. If you choose not to pay then you will take the risks ..

 

[Musicboy]

Totally agree with @emmitb....

 

[laurieash]

@gus-lopez,

It's a long time since I wore my Police Uniform with pride.
Your first three lines have overstepped the line.
Remember Rule 1.

I have always found the Gnr to be very friendly one even helping me change a flat tyre.

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[Musicboy]

Def overstepped the mark ... I wore the same uniform

 

[JJ]

If in any doubt . Don't park........Plenty of sites/ Aires & prob safer. .. If you choose not to pay then you will take the risks ..

I very strongly disagree with all aspects of this post...


JJ

 

[Puddleduck]

So if you were parked in England and someone gave you a ticket for parking on double yellows but someone had taken the yellow lines away would you pay it...?

You would not be liable for the the fine. Yellow lines have to be continuous and have to have a T bar to show the end of the restriction.

This may be of interest:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ckets-given-out-illegally-expert-reveals.html

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